Real sailors on real ships got the first peek at the new 1941 Japanese
models from the decks of the following ships. 64 years ago today.

Ships Present at Pearl Harbor, 0800 7 December 1941

Battleships (BB) Pennsylvania (BB-38) (in drydock)
# Arizona (BB-39)
Nevada (BB-36)
# Oklahoma (BB-37)
Tennessee (BB-43)
# California (BB-44)
Maryland (BB-46)
# West Virginia (BB-48)

Heavy Cruisers (CA) New Orleans (CA-32)
San Francisco (CA-38)

Light Cruisers (CL) Raleigh (CL-7)
Detroit (CL-8)
Phoenix (CL-46)
Honolulu (CL-48)
St. Louis (CL-49)
Helena (CL-50

Destroyers (DD) Allen (DD-66)
Schley (DD-103)
Chew (DD-106)
* Ward (DD-139) (patrolling Channel entrance
to
Pearl Harbor)
Dewey (DD-349)
Farragut (DD-348)
Hull (DD-350)
MacDonough (DD-351)
Worden (DD-352)
Dale (DD-353)
Monaghan (DD-354)
Aylwin (DD-355)
Selfridge (DD-357)
Phelps (DD-360)
Cummings (DD-365)
Reid (DD-369)
Case (DD-370)
Conyngham (DD-371)
Cassin (DD-372) (in drydock)
Shaw (DD-373) (in floating drydock)
Tucker (DD-374)
Downes (DD-375) (in drydock)
Bagley (DD-386)
Blue (DD-387)
Helm (DD-388)
Mugford (DD-389)
Ralph Talbot (DD-390)
Henley (DD-391)
Patterson (DD-392)
Jarvis (DD-393)

Submarines (SS) Narwhal (SS-167)
Dolphin (SS-169)
Cachalot (SS-170)
Tautog (SS-199)

Minelayer (CM) # Oglala (CM-4)

Minesweeper (AM) Turkey (AM-13)
Bobolink (AM-20)
Rail (AM-26)
Tern (AM-31)
Grebe (AM-43)
Vireo (AM-52)

Coastal Minesweeper (Amc)
Cockatoo (Amc-8)
Crossbill (Amc-9)
Condor (Amc-14)
Reedbird (Amc-30)

Destroyer Minelayer (DM)
Gamble (DM-15)
Ramsay (DM-16)
Montgomery (DM-17)
Breese (DM-18)
Tracy (DM-19)
Preble (DM-20)
Sicard (DM-21)
Pruitt (DM-22)

Destroyer Minesweeper (DMS)
Zane (DMS-14)
Wasmuth (DMS-15)
Trever (DMS-16)
Perry (DMS-17)

Patrol Gunboat (PG) Sacramento (PG-19)

Destroyer Tender (AD) Dobbin (AD-3)
Whitney (AD-4)

Seaplane Tender (AV) Curtiss (AV-4)
Tangier (AV-8)

Small Seaplane Tender (AVP)
Avocet (AVP-4)
Swan (AVP-7) (on marine railway
dock)

Seaplane Tender, Destroyer (AVD)
Hulbert (AVD-6)
Thornton (AVD-11)

Ammunition Ship (AE) Pyro (AE-1)

Oiler (AO) Ramapo (AO-12)
Neosho (AO-23)

Repair Ship (AR) Medusa (AR-1)
Vestal (AR-4)
Rigel (AR-11)

Submarine Tender (AS) Pelias (AS-14)

Submarine Rescue Ship (ASR) Widgeon (ASR-1)

Hospital Ship (AH) Solace (AH-5)

Cargo Ship (AK) * Vega (AK-17) (at Honolulu)

Stores Issue Ship (AKS) Castor (AKS-1)
* Antares (AKS-3) (at Pearl Harbor entrance)

Ocean Tug (AT) Ontario (AT-13)
Sunnadin (AT-28)
* Keosanqua (AT-38) (at Pearl Harbor entrance)
* Navajo (AT-64) (12 miles outside Pearl
Harbor entrance)

Miscellaneous Auxiliary (AG)
# Utah (AG-16)
Argonne (AG-31)
Sumner (AG-32)

All sailors present were attacked by Japs flying Mitsubishi and Subaru
airplanes. Yelp the same guys who build Rob's SUV (Super Ugly Vehicle).

Only a total loser with no pride would buy such a Zero from the folks
who killed so many American sailors.

I wonder how he can drive and hang his head in shame at the same time?

Remember Pearl Harbor!
Buy American Cars.

Until the Japanese admit and ask for forgiveness for the hidious
un-human crimes they committed during WWII,they deserve nothing.

Capt. American

"the only good Jap is a Jap who's been dead for six months"
William F. Bull Halsey

http://www.amconmag.com/2003/09_08_03/buchanan.html



September 8, 2003 issue
Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative



The Tojo Doctrine

by Pat Buchanan


August always calls to mind the final weeks of the war in 1945: Hiroshima on
Aug. 6, Nagasaki on Aug. 9, the surrender of Aug. 15. Formal surrender in
September to General MacArthur on the Missouri in Tokyo Bay was but a photo
op.

Today, World War II is recalled as the "good war" on Hitler's empire. But
that was not true for the generation that lived through it. For even the
youngest, it was, first and foremost, a war against the evil empire that had
carried out the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor.

And understandably so. Even before U.S. troops first clashed with Rommel's
Afrika Corps, Pearl Harbor, the Coral Sea, Midway, Bataan, Corregidor, the
Doolittle Raid, and Guadalcanal were already burned in our memories. And
while the morality of our war measures-the fire-bombing of Tokyo, Hiroshima,
Nagasaki-is still debated, no one denies the morality of the war itself.

Yet, even as Bush and Tony Blair today face charges of having "lied us into
war," so, too, did FDR. Even more so.

Indeed, why did Japan, an island nation smaller than Montana, attack the
most powerful nation on earth? How did Hirohito and Tojo expect to win a war
to the death with America that they must have known a surprise attack on
Pearl Harbor would ignite?

In 1952, the great revisionist historian Charles Callan Tansill, in Back
Door to War: The Roosevelt Foreign Policy 1933-1941, concluded it was not
Japan that sought war with us, but FDR who sought war with Japan, as a back
door to war with Nazi Germany. His case: in 1931, Japan occupied Manchuria
as a defensive move to secure her northern flank from Stalin who had seized
Outer Mongolia and Sinkiang. Manchuria was as critical to Japan as Mexico is
to us.

In 1937, following a clash on the Marco Polo Bridge outside Peiping, Japan
and China went to war. For four years they fought, with Japan controlling
the coasts and China the interior. For three years of this war, America saw
no vital interest at risk and remained uninvolved.

But when Japan joined the Axis and occupied Indochina, FDR sent military aid
to Chiang Kai-shek under lend-lease and approved the dispatch of the Flying
Tigers to fight against Japan. He ordered B-17s to Manila to prepare to
attack Japan's home islands. He secretly promised the Dutch and British
that, should Japan attack their Asian colonies, America would go to war.
Japan was aware of it all.

In July 1941, FDR froze Japan's assets, shutting off her oil. Adm. Richmond
Kelly Turner warned FDR it meant war.

Indeed, when Israel's oil supply was imperiled by Nasser's threat to close
the Straits of Tiran to ships docking in Israel, the Israelis launched their
own Pearl Harbor, destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground before
invading the Sinai and ending the oil threat to Israel's survival.

Nevertheless, knowing it meant war, FDR cut off Japan's oil. Thus was the
Japanese empire and national economy, entirely dependent on imported oil,
put under a sentence of death.

Japanese militarists wanted war but the government of Prince Konoye did not.
He offered to meet FDR anywhere in the Pacific. The prince told the U.S.
ambassador that if oil shipments were renewed, Tokyo was ready to pull out
of Indochina and have FDR mediate an end to the Sino-Japanese war. FDR
spurned the offer.

Japan then sent an envoy to Washington to seek negotiations. On Nov. 26,
Secretary of State Cordell Hull rejected negotiations and handed an
ultimatum to the Japanese: get out of Indochina and China.

Japan faced a choice: accept a humiliating retreat from an empire built with
immense blood and treasure, or seize the oil-rich Dutch East Indies. Pearl
Harbor followed. The Tojo Doctrine of pre-emptive war.

Did FDR truly believe China's integrity was a vital interest? Hardly. Once
war broke out, China was ignored. The Pacific took a back seat to Europe.
U.S. forces on Corregidor were abandoned. Aid to Churchill and Stalin and
war on Germany took precedence over all.

At Yalta, FDR, without consulting Chiang Kai-shek, ceded to Stalin Chinese
territories that were to be taken from Japan.

Was America's war on Japan a just war? Assuredly. Were U.S. vital interests
threatened by Japan? No. Provoking war with Japan was FDR's back door to the
war he wanted-with Hitler in Europe.

After a meeting with FDR, Nov. 25, Secretary of War Henry Stimson wrote in
his diary that the main question is "how we maneuver them into the position
of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."
That is the American way to war.

September 8, 2003 issue
Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative

Hey Crantz,

You think the twin towers were brought down by real estate developers
too....Right?

The man on the knoll, UFO's, Bobby killed Marilyn Monroe ect..

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Crantz,

You think the twin towers were brought down by real estate developers
too....Right?

The man on the knoll, UFO's, Bobby killed Marilyn Monroe ect..

Joe

No, I think the towers were brought down by a bunch of savages. I'm all for
invading Saudi Arabia and getting the matter finished. Remember, the vast
majority of the attackers were Saudi, Bin Laden is a Saudi and most of the
foriegn insurgents in Iraq are Saudi. Do you see anything wrong with that?

So FDR didn't seize the assets of Japan? Read the McCollum memo:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/wa...ese_attack.htm

FDR was a socialist democrat, worse than Clinton. He started WWII and handed
most of Europe over to the Communist butcher Stalin.

So tell me, why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor?

Mostly because we were putting a stop to Japanese aggression. Yes FDR
and many others dropped the ball and did not see Pearl Harbor coming,
they did not know for sure Japan was going to attack.

Joe

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25637


"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mostly because we were putting a stop to Japanese aggression. Yes FDR
and many others dropped the ball and did not see Pearl Harbor coming,
they did not know for sure Japan was going to attack.

Joe

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
k.net...
http://www.amconmag.com/2003/09_08_03/buchanan.html
Yet, even as Bush and Tony Blair today face charges of having "lied us
into
war," so, too, did FDR. Even more so.

Indeed, why did Japan, an island nation smaller than Montana, attack the
most powerful nation on earth? How did Hirohito and Tojo expect to win a
war
to the death with America that they must have known a surprise attack on
Pearl Harbor would ignite?

Tojo and Hirohito share one thing in common with you, Buchanan and Hitler.
They were all delusional. The Japanese militarists felt that war with the US
over domination of the Pacific rim was inevitable and welcomed it, thinking
that Japan would prevail. Many in the military, including folks like
Yamamoto, knew that this wasn't true. History has proven over and over again
that the type of reflexive isolationism espoused by Buchanan and the America
First Committee in the 30's is a serious mistake that leads to events like
WWII. Early intervention by ANY of the major European powers in the 1930's
would have relegated Hitler to a historical footnote, which is the real
dirty secret. A strong military demonstration by the US in the 30's would
have discouraged the Japanese militarists from the adventurism they
subsequently embarked on, with disastrous results.

John Cairns

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. net...

Tojo and Hirohito share one thing in common with you, Buchanan and Hitler.
They were all delusional.

Unlike Hitler, I was never elected to political office in a Democracy or
legitimately appointed Chancellor of a Democracy.


The Japanese militarists felt that war with the US
over domination of the Pacific rim was inevitable and welcomed it,
thinking
that Japan would prevail.

Militarists politicians, right? What made them think they would win? Blind
patriotism? A belief that they were superior as a people? If they were
isolationists, there would be no war, am I correct?

Many in the military, including folks like
Yamamoto, knew that this wasn't true.

Of course, they understand what it takes to win.

History has proven over and over again
that the type of reflexive isolationism espoused by Buchanan and the
America
First Committee in the 30's is a serious mistake that leads to events like
WWII.

Have you been reading the history books about our government furnished in
our government schools?

The US Navy stood down the Japs in China in the 1930's:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/china.htm

America was not isolationist. We were in China, the Phillipines, Hawaii,
Alaska, Cleveland, etc. Maybe we weren't imperialist enough for your tastes.


Early intervention by ANY of the major European powers in the 1930's
would have relegated Hitler to a historical footnote, which is the real
dirty secret

What secret? They surrendered to him before the war even started. Ever hear
of appeasement? The spineless British and French gave away a sovereign
country that they didn't own or control!

..A strong military demonstration by the US in the 30's would
have discouraged the Japanese militarists from the adventurism they
subsequently embarked on, with disastrous results.

Are you saying we should have started a war with the Japs in the 30's? If
not, then give an example of military intervention.

Amen!


John Cairns

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. net...

History has proven over and over again
that the type of reflexive isolationism espoused by Buchanan and the
America
First Committee in the 30's is a serious mistake that leads to events like
WWII.

So Switzerland caused WWII?

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
k.net...

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. net...

Tojo and Hirohito share one thing in common with you, Buchanan and
Hitler.
They were all delusional.

Unlike Hitler, I was never elected to political office in a Democracy or
legitimately appointed Chancellor of a Democracy.

http://carpebonum.net/archives/2005/...not_demo_1.php

Ah, neither was Hitler. Lost every election he ever participated it

The Japanese militarists felt that war with the US
over domination of the Pacific rim was inevitable and welcomed it,
thinking
that Japan would prevail.

Militarists politicians, right? What made them think they would win? Blind
patriotism? A belief that they were superior as a people? If they were
isolationists, there would be no war, am I correct?

Yeah, and if yer aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. What made them think
they would win is:

A. They did consider themselves superior "as a people". They still have this
attitude today to a very large degree.
B. They-the militarists-were blissfully ignorant of the industrial might of
the US, as was Hitler.

Many in the military, including folks like
Yamamoto, knew that this wasn't true.

Of course, they understand what it takes to win.

History has proven over and over again
that the type of reflexive isolationism espoused by Buchanan and the
America
First Committee in the 30's is a serious mistake that leads to events
like
WWII.

Have you been reading the history books about our government furnished in
our government schools?

Actually, all of my primary and secondary education was in private schools.

You mean the books that talk about the Neutrality Act?

The US Navy stood down the Japs in China in the 1930's:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/china.htm

Can't help but thinking that they weren't impressed, if they had been, no
Pearl Harbor.
They sank the Panay and we merely protested, not a very impressive
"demonstration" to an agressor.
Not much of a stand down either.

America was not isolationist. We were in China, the Phillipines, Hawaii,
Alaska, Cleveland, etc. Maybe we weren't imperialist enough for your
tastes.

Ah, there's a word you don't read very often. "imperialist" Like Iraq,
maybe?
BTW, all of those places you mentioned were examples of good old late19th
century "imperialism".
You also forgot about Cuba, Puerto Rico and Central America. Nothing like
imperialism in your own back yard, much more convenient, doncha think?

Early intervention by ANY of the major European powers in the 1930's
would have relegated Hitler to a historical footnote, which is the real
dirty secret

What secret? They surrendered to him before the war even started. Ever
hear
of appeasement? The spineless British and French gave away a sovereign
country that they didn't own or control!

Well maybe you can explain this statement to me. How does someone "give
away" something they "don't own or control"? Is it something like selling
the Brooklyn bridge to a tourist? Seriously though, do you honestly believe
that the US would have done ANYTHING different at Munich? Was there mass
outrage in the US over Munich?
"The lend-lease policy translated into legislative form, stunned a Congress
and a nation wholly sympathetic to the cause of Great Britain. The Kaiser's
blank check to Austria-Hungary in the First World War was a piker compared
to the Roosevelt blank check of World War II. It warranted my worst fears
for the future of America, and it definitely stamps the President as
war-minded.

The lend-lease-give program is the New Deal's triple-A foreign policy; it
will plow under every fourth American boy. Never before have the American
people been asked or compelled to give so bounteously and so completely of
their tax dollars to any foreign nation. Never before has the Congress of
the United States been asked by any President to violate international law.
Never before has this nation resorted to duplicity in the conduct of its
foreign affairs. Never before has the United States given to one man the
power to strip this nation of its defenses. Never before has a Congress
coldly and flatly been asked to abdicate.

If the American people want a dictatorship - if they want a totalitarian
form of government and if they want war - this
bill should be steam-rollered through Congress, as is the wont of President
Roosevelt.

Approval of this legislation means war, open and complete warfare. I,
therefore, ask the American people before they supinely accept it - Was the
last World War worthwhile?

If it were, then we should lend and lease war materials. If it were, then we
should lend and lease American boys. President Roosevelt has said we would
be repaid by England. We will be. We will be repaid, just as England repaid
her war debts of the First World War - repaid those dollars wrung from the
sweat of labor and the toil of farmers with cries of "Uncle Shylock." Our
boys will be returned - returned in caskets, maybe; returned with bodies
maimed; returned with minds warped and twisted by sights of horrors and the
scream and shriek of high-powered shells."

Senator Burton Wheeler co-founder America First Committee

All of this AFTER the Germans had overrun Europe, but they were only French,
right?

You also need to remember that Germany declared war on the US, not
vice-versa.

Do you honestly think the US would have declared war on Germany in December
'41 if the Germans had not done so first?




.A strong military demonstration by the US in the 30's would
have discouraged the Japanese militarists from the adventurism they
subsequently embarked on, with disastrous results.

Are you saying we should have started a war with the Japs in the 30's? If
not, then give an example of military intervention.

Read again, it's right there. Military demonstration. Maybe you can give
some examples of demonstrating military preparedness and superiority short
of military intervention.

I'll give you a hint. It starts with military preparedness

John Cairns

Amen!


John Cairns