However, the strategy changes in the last race. A boat that is in
last place for a regatta is left to do whatever it wants, and thus has
its best shot at winning an individual race. Meanwhile, the silver is
being won elsewhere on the course by the real racers. This isn't a
hypothetical situation; it happens in almost every regatta.



Jeff, look at the race I posted. Is the C&C still trying for best time
in the last race? What about the J27? But HERE, I'll make it easier for
ya....and everyone else...here's the same boat, Mistral....taking 1st
overall.

http://www.hospicecareflorida.org/Re...esults2003.htm

And beating my beloved C&C 37+ in the process. Buh buy, Jeff!!!!

RB
35s5
NY

Maybe you could tell the group what the ARC class is.

and again, Sloco....

Charleston Ocean Racing Association (CORA) Fall Race #2, Sept. 4
(harbor)--Fleet winners (boat name, boat type, owner): Fleet A:
Emotion, J/120, Hanckel; Fleet B: Luce Goose, J/24, Scribner; Fleet C:
Andiamo, Beneteau 35s5, Kowert; Fleet D: Dissipation, Tartan 30, Burke


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
However, the strategy changes in the last race. A boat that is in
last place for a regatta is left to do whatever it wants, and thus has
its best shot at winning an individual race. Meanwhile, the silver is
being won elsewhere on the course by the real racers. This isn't a
hypothetical situation; it happens in almost every regatta.



Jeff, look at the race I posted. Is the C&C still trying for best time
in the last race?

No, he wasn't. You really don't get it, do you? The C&C wanted to
win the regatta, not the race. The C&C was in first place and only
had to beat the J27 (actually beat him by several minutes) to win the
division. We can only speculate about what transpired, but two things
are certain: The C&C didn't care at all about the Beneteau, and you
know nothing about racing.

What about the J27?

The J27 had a bigger challenge - he had to beat both the C&C and the
Lindenberg to win, which he did. He also didn't care about the Bene.


But HERE, I'll make it easier for
ya....and everyone else...here's the same boat, Mistral....taking 1st
overall.

http://www.hospicecareflorida.org/Re...esults2003.htm

What's the point? Its handicap racing, which measures the skill of
the skipper, not the speed of the boat. Its clear the Craig Setzer is
a talented skipper since he seems to show up in almost every race you
posted. Also, his boat is clearly well setup, since its featured by a
rigger as the fully tricked out boat.

This is pretty pathetic, even for you booby. Don't worry, you'll be
able to tell your friends that you could win a race, if you actually
wanted to.


And beating my beloved C&C 37+ in the process. Buh buy, Jeff!!!!

RB - a non-racer who thinks owning a racing boat is cool
35s5 - a ladies boat
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Same here. I usually DNS the last race as my throwout if my finishing
positions in the others are sufficient to hold my place, or if a win
won't
advance me in the standings.


Which was NOT the case with the race we were discussing. The 35s5 beat
the C&C 99 boat for boat, though it's rated 99 in many areas.
Pretty much the end of the story. If our comfy boat can pull that
off....and the other wins I posted....that's cool with me!
The 35s5 hangs with some fast company...and wins!

In fairness, the 35s5 probably can hold its own in such company. But you
and all your detractors are overlooking the most important part of any race:
the skipper and crew. You can have the fastest boat and lose, and you can
have a relatively slower boat and win. It happens all the time. Generally
when boats are relatively equal, and this would include boats in the PHRF
range of 90 to 140 as in the case of your boat, the reason one wins over the
other is seldom related to boat speed, rather to the abilities of the
skipper and his crew, and how many mistakes and blunders each crew makes
during the race. If it just so happens that the 35s5 had a better crew
complement, it would likely beat the C&C, despite any boat speed
differences.

Two examples: 1) In a small annual regatta on Lake Michigan each summer,
the same skipper has won the race all but two times over the past 25 years.
And he's done so with 7 different boats, ranging from a Sabre 30 Targa to a
J44. Ironically, one of his losses (he placed second) was sailing a J35
which he'd just acquired. He simply didn't know how to sail it at that
point. The following year he won with it, which is no small task
considering the difficulty of sailing to that boat's rating. Bottom line:
no one was better than that skipper. Faster boats with lesser skippers lost
to him year after year. 2) I won more weekend Snipe races with my older,
slower Lemke Snipe than I ever did with my later, faster Chubasco boat.
Reason: I took my racing very seriously when I owned the Lemke, but really
didn't care about racing much after buying the Chubasco. I was a far better
skipper during my early Snipe years than later, when I become more
interested in the social end of things (read: my new female crew who
subsequently became my wife).

Touting the speed of your new Beneteau is akin to bragging about penis
length--it's all about how it's used.

Max

"Gary" wrote in message
news:ln8jf.659386$tl2.148665@pd7tw3no...
Maxprop wrote:
"rgnmstr" wrote in message
ups.com...

Winning the last
race seems to be important with racers for some reason.

Gee, I've been racing for quite a while and have never heard that.


Same here. I usually DNS the last race as my throwout if my finishing
positions in the others are sufficient to hold my place, or if a win
won't advance me in the standings.

Max
What happened to the fun of sailing? Why miss a race? Let someone else
skipper, change jobs, do anything but sit on the dock. It's not about
winning, it's about sailing.

It's obvious you don't race.

Max

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
What happened to the fun of sailing? Why miss a race? Let someone
else
skipper, change jobs, do anything but sit on the dock. It's not about
winning, it's about sailing.


Gary, these people are full of ****e. They know full well that lots of
folks LOVE to race and sail and don't miss a race if they can help it.

You would be describing beginners, not seasoned experts who've been racing
for decades.

They don't look to go home early and race EVERY race hard.

This clearly points up the fact that you don't race, or if so haven't done
it on a regular basis for any period of time. You are dead wrong about
this. After literally hundreds of regattas over the years, I've seen more
top and bottom-end skippers DNS the last race (or sometimes the last two)
when their finishing position is secure, than those who race it despite
their security. How do I know you don't race? Easy--if you'd ever done a
7-race regatta in 90 degree heat in drifter conditions, the very last thing
you want to do is go back out and drift around for another 90 minutes. You
seek out air conditioning and a rum & tonic, not more light air frustration.
And if your finishing position isn't secure, you curse the race committee
for not cancelling the last race. You really are talking out your ass on
this, Bubbles. You're clueless.

I'm hoping
their just trolling, because I'd be sad to hear of someone who sails or
races with that attitude.

This may come as a shock, Bubbles, but Mary Poppins isn't real.

In a series of races, such as the J24 series
here, the heat builds up more and more through each race. Everyone is
trying hard and the last race is no less important than the first
because EVERY race is worth winning. My ex-girlfriend races that
way...and wins. In fact she just won some silver with her new Catalina
30.

Good for her. The last J24 regatta I attended (I crewed for a competent
skipper who always kept his composure in horrible conditions) the first
three races had 36 boats. The last two had 21 and 11 boats, respectively.
The wind was blowing 20 to 25 during the entire two day series, waves were
closely-spaced in the 6-8' range in the afternoons, the temps were in the
40s and 50s, and there was enough broken gear and rigging to fill a large
capacity dumpster by the end of the regatta. We placed third overall, but
were actually happier to just have survived. We competed in the last two
races, but really wished we'd been either at the bottom or at the top so we
could have bagged at least the last race.

As usual, Bubbles, you know not what you blabber about. And somehow you've
sucked Gary into your ignorance as well.

Max

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
You really don't get this, do you? It isn't about not racing, though I'm
sure it happens in PHRF racing, but it wasn't common in the collegiate
racing I did, simply because it isn't fair to other teams teams that came
a long way to compete against a full fleet.

However, the strategy changes in the last race. A boat that is in last
place for a regatta is left to do whatever it wants, and thus has its best
shot at winning an individual race. Meanwhile, the silver is being won
elsewhere on the course by the real racers. This isn't a hypothetical
situation; it happens in almost every regatta.

Ask one of your racing friends, if they really exist. Maybe they'll
explain it to you real slow, using small words.

They'll have to draw some pictures, too, Jeff. Bubbles is simply clueless
about this.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message
news:ln8jf.659386$tl2.148665@pd7tw3no...

Maxprop wrote:

"rgnmstr" wrote in message
groups.com...


Winning the last
race seems to be important with racers for some reason.

Gee, I've been racing for quite a while and have never heard that.


Same here. I usually DNS the last race as my throwout if my finishing
positions in the others are sufficient to hold my place, or if a win
won't advance me in the standings.

Max

What happened to the fun of sailing? Why miss a race? Let someone else
skipper, change jobs, do anything but sit on the dock. It's not about
winning, it's about sailing.


It's obvious you don't race.

Max


Of course I do, but I don't quit.
Last four Swiftsures, last three Van-Isle 360s, Vic-Maui, round the
bouys at our club. Lots of races. I'm not a winner but I'm not a
quitter either. I'm a sailor and racing is a great excuse to get out
sailing in all conditions.

"Maxprop" wrote i
Ask one of your racing friends, if they really exist. Maybe
they'll
explain it to you real slow, using small words.

They'll have to draw some pictures, too, Jeff. Bubbles is
simply clueless
about this.

You guys are gonna look pretty foolish when Bob starts winning
all those races next year.

SBV