The Fastest Boats
 

Rather than throw around a lot of BS like many others here, I'm now
going to rate the 3 FASTEST racer/cruiser boats here, PERIOD. So here
we go....

#1 Donal's 33.7: Yup, it's probably a bit faster than my 35s5 with
it's deep fin and higher pointing. Maybe on a reach I'd have him in
some conditions, but the 33.7 is a more advanced and refined hull. The
35s5 has it beat for cruising with a nicer interior.

#2 RB's 35s5: A fast boat that has beaten Express 35's and First 38s
boat for boat, but there's no doubt that it takes a skilled crew to get
the speed potential from this hull. Every owner says typical speed is
great, but wringing out the top end is work.

#3 Loco's Express: While old and dated, boats like the Express 30,
Santana 30/30 and J30 can still be wickedly fast boats that will blow
past most newer 30 footers. An Express 30 may be rated a bit slower,
but it could beat my 35s5 or the 33.7 on any given day.

All three of the boats above represent excellent mating of the cruising
boat and racer. The 35s5 has the best cabin by far, but the 33.7 has
the merits of a much newer design. The Express 30 is quite inexpensive
and like the J30 offer folks seeking more speed a way in without
breaking the bank.

RB
35s5
NY0.

The Fastest Boats
 

Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi is just off
the wind.

In fact, my old windrider 16, could torch just about any mono I encountered,
even pointing high. I could and did do donuts around 35 foot monos, even
though the windrider stopped everytime it encountered chop larger than a
couple of feet. That was in 20+ kts in the north SF bay. Down south in light
air, I beat every boat off Dana Point (mostly a beam reach) except a 45 foot
catamaran, though I pretty much kept up with them until I gave up at about 3
miles off the coast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Rather than throw around a lot of BS like many others here, I'm now
going to rate the 3 FASTEST racer/cruiser boats here, PERIOD. So here
we go....

#1 Donal's 33.7: Yup, it's probably a bit faster than my 35s5 with
it's deep fin and higher pointing. Maybe on a reach I'd have him in
some conditions, but the 33.7 is a more advanced and refined hull. The
35s5 has it beat for cruising with a nicer interior.

#2 RB's 35s5: A fast boat that has beaten Express 35's and First 38s
boat for boat, but there's no doubt that it takes a skilled crew to get
the speed potential from this hull. Every owner says typical speed is
great, but wringing out the top end is work.

#3 Loco's Express: While old and dated, boats like the Express 30,
Santana 30/30 and J30 can still be wickedly fast boats that will blow
past most newer 30 footers. An Express 30 may be rated a bit slower,
but it could beat my 35s5 or the 33.7 on any given day.

All three of the boats above represent excellent mating of the cruising
boat and racer. The 35s5 has the best cabin by far, but the 33.7 has
the merits of a much newer design. The Express 30 is quite inexpensive
and like the J30 offer folks seeking more speed a way in without
breaking the bank.

RB
35s5
NY0.

The Fastest Boats
 

Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi is just
off
the wind.

Exactly, and I'm talking about performance here which includes not
always being off the wind. The PDQ is also not a racer/cruiser which I
specified. It's a long range family cruiser only. It doesn't even fit
into the comparison.

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Exactly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 28 Nov 2005 14:45:30 -0800, "Capt. Rob"
scribbled thusly:

Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi is just
off
the wind.

Exactly, and I'm talking about performance here which includes not
always being off the wind. The PDQ is also not a racer/cruiser which I
specified. It's a long range family cruiser only. It doesn't even fit
into the comparison.

RB
35s5
NY

"just off the wind" means in this case, slightly sprung sheets.

You know, the way most people not racing sail their monos.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

The Fastest Boats
 

"just off the wind" means in this case, slightly sprung sheets.

You know, the way most people not racing sail their monos.


I'm afraid that;s just not true. Just about everyone I know enjoys
tweaking and pushing their boats upwind. It's pretty silly to suggest
that everyone sails at 45 or 50% upwind when not racing, folks.


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

I don't think you get the point, folks. We can't race a PDQ 36. And
we'd like to try some racing for fun. The PDQ is simply built for a
different purpose and can't be compared to racer/cruisers which offer a
much different sailing experience. Why not throw Doug's trawler into
the mix and say it's the fastest?

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Why did you get rid of it, Jon?

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi
is just off
the wind.

In fact, my old windrider 16, could torch just about any mono I
encountered,
even pointing high. I could and did do donuts around 35 foot
monos, even
though the windrider stopped everytime it encountered chop
larger than a
couple of feet. That was in 20+ kts in the north SF bay. Down
south in light
air, I beat every boat off Dana Point (mostly a beam reach)
except a 45 foot
catamaran, though I pretty much kept up with them until I gave
up at about 3
miles off the coast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Rather than throw around a lot of BS like many others here,
I'm now
going to rate the 3 FASTEST racer/cruiser boats here, PERIOD.
So here
we go....

#1 Donal's 33.7: Yup, it's probably a bit faster than my
35s5 with
it's deep fin and higher pointing. Maybe on a reach I'd have
him in
some conditions, but the 33.7 is a more advanced and refined
hull. The
35s5 has it beat for cruising with a nicer interior.

#2 RB's 35s5: A fast boat that has beaten Express 35's and
First 38s
boat for boat, but there's no doubt that it takes a skilled
crew to get
the speed potential from this hull. Every owner says typical
speed is
great, but wringing out the top end is work.

#3 Loco's Express: While old and dated, boats like the
Express 30,
Santana 30/30 and J30 can still be wickedly fast boats that
will blow
past most newer 30 footers. An Express 30 may be rated a bit
slower,
but it could beat my 35s5 or the 33.7 on any given day.

All three of the boats above represent excellent mating of
the cruising
boat and racer. The 35s5 has the best cabin by far, but the
33.7 has
the merits of a much newer design. The Express 30 is quite
inexpensive
and like the J30 offer folks seeking more speed a way in
without
breaking the bank.

RB
35s5
NY0.

The Fastest Boats
 

I have no f*cking idea.... sigh.... I think my original reason was that I
can sail for free and the WR was very wet in the north bay.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Why did you get rid of it, Jon?

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi
is just off
the wind.

In fact, my old windrider 16, could torch just about any mono I
encountered,
even pointing high. I could and did do donuts around 35 foot
monos, even
though the windrider stopped everytime it encountered chop
larger than a
couple of feet. That was in 20+ kts in the north SF bay. Down
south in light
air, I beat every boat off Dana Point (mostly a beam reach)
except a 45 foot
catamaran, though I pretty much kept up with them until I gave
up at about 3
miles off the coast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Rather than throw around a lot of BS like many others here,
I'm now
going to rate the 3 FASTEST racer/cruiser boats here, PERIOD.
So here
we go....

#1 Donal's 33.7: Yup, it's probably a bit faster than my
35s5 with
it's deep fin and higher pointing. Maybe on a reach I'd have
him in
some conditions, but the 33.7 is a more advanced and refined
hull. The
35s5 has it beat for cruising with a nicer interior.

#2 RB's 35s5: A fast boat that has beaten Express 35's and
First 38s
boat for boat, but there's no doubt that it takes a skilled
crew to get
the speed potential from this hull. Every owner says typical
speed is
great, but wringing out the top end is work.

#3 Loco's Express: While old and dated, boats like the
Express 30,
Santana 30/30 and J30 can still be wickedly fast boats that
will blow
past most newer 30 footers. An Express 30 may be rated a bit
slower,
but it could beat my 35s5 or the 33.7 on any given day.

All three of the boats above represent excellent mating of
the cruising
boat and racer. The 35s5 has the best cabin by far, but the
33.7 has
the merits of a much newer design. The Express 30 is quite
inexpensive
and like the J30 offer folks seeking more speed a way in
without
breaking the bank.

RB
35s5
NY0.

The Fastest Boats
 

Now that's just BS....No-One our for a cruise around the bay will put
as much effort into trimming, tweaking and maintaining max VMG...ever!



Of my many sailing friends, all but two of us are racers. Aboard their
boats it's ALWAYS a race. Always tweaking, always pushing. I learned a
lot this summer because of that and I plan to push the 35s5 as well.
It's fun. This thread was started as: Fastest Racer/Cruisers. See the
opening post. Multihulls simply don't qualify and only one person in
this whole group seems to want one. I certainly don't know anyone who
wants one. Most of us dream of Baltics and Swans, not PDQ's or Prouts.

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Any similar in length multi will blow away a mono if the multi is just
off
the wind.

Exactly, and I'm talking about performance here which includes not
always being off the wind. The PDQ is also not a racer/cruiser which I
specified. It's a long range family cruiser only. It doesn't even fit
into the comparison.

We don't have the polars for your boat or mine, and I'll even concede
that mine, as configured (without tall rig, with diesels, loaded for
cruising, etc.) doesn't have scintillating upwind performance, but:

The polars for the big version of mine, the PDQ 42, can be compared to
the big version of yours, the Farr designed 40.7, a hot racing
machine. They show that while the Bene might point a few degrees
higher, the PDQ will walk away from it *upwind* in winds over 12
knots. In 16 knots, for instance, the Bene is pointing at 38 degrees
with a VMG of 5.37, while the PDQ is at 42 degrees with a VMG of 5.88.
If you compare the boats point for point, you find that the only
significant advantage the Bene has is upwind in winds under 10 knots
and less. Even in 6 knots of wind, the PDQ is walking away from the
Bene off the wind.

The Fastest Boats
 

I would much prefer a multi. I've had my eye on the F-33 since it came out.
The true ocean cruiser is also a possibility, but I don't like the fact that
it isn't the folding type.

http://www.f-boat.com/f-33.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Now that's just BS....No-One our for a cruise around the bay will put
as much effort into trimming, tweaking and maintaining max VMG...ever!



Of my many sailing friends, all but two of us are racers. Aboard their
boats it's ALWAYS a race. Always tweaking, always pushing. I learned a
lot this summer because of that and I plan to push the 35s5 as well.
It's fun. This thread was started as: Fastest Racer/Cruisers. See the
opening post. Multihulls simply don't qualify and only one person in
this whole group seems to want one. I certainly don't know anyone who
wants one. Most of us dream of Baltics and Swans, not PDQ's or Prouts.

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

A very cool boat. Not roomy, but I like the idea getting it south
in 24 hours @ 60 mph in the Winter, no need to shrink wrap, and
then off cruising the Bahamas which is not friendly to keelboats!

"Capt. JG" wrote
I would much prefer a multi. I've had my eye on the F-33 since it came out.
The true ocean cruiser is also a possibility, but I don't like the fact
that it isn't the folding type.

http://www.f-boat.com/f-33.html

The Fastest Boats
 

So, Ozzy....why don't YOU own a nice big cat or small one like Jeff's?
Do you find sailing a cat like Jeff's as much fun as sailing a boat
like a J35.

Honestly, the Cat is pointless when compared to a trawler. The trawler
is always at speed, goes to windward with no problems, carries more
cargo and is very economical to operate!

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

would much prefer a multi. I've had my eye on the F-33


Now THAT'S a fun multi. I can see the point of one of those for a good
time.


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

# Appearance. I'll leave that to you. They grow on you.


I've looked at cats for years. I can stand some of the larger ones. But
models under around 45 feet are ugly. They all look the the Enterprise
Shuttlecraft after a water landing. The beauty of a sailboat is a big
factor for a lot of sailors.


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Only in your uninformed opinion ;-)

Sorry, Ozzy...the Trawler is always at speed and can sail dead into the
wind. It has it all over the Cat. It's also a much better looking boat.
I mean...look at this slab sided thing:

http://www.pdqyachts.com/ver2/yachts...ts/an-4204.jpg

If you can live with that, more power to ya!

And you don't own a 46' cat. I'm sure you'll claim you do....but I know
you don't. You post here 24/7, even when I was away last summer. I
seriously doubt you sail your Etchells at all anymore.


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Poor Bubbles,
I play at home,


Nuff said. Thanks!


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote:
Poor Bubbles,
I play at home,

What instrument?

I rarely sail my Etchells at the moment, My son does.

I thought you were going to get a new one?

And my Cat...well, she looks a lot like this
http://tinyurl.com/8lysb
but unfortunately I won't be seeing her for another 12 months..that's
life.

Very nice boat. Looks fast & roomy, although I've never
gotten used to that style of helm station. The brochure
doesn't say anything about how it sails with one board down,
though ;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote in message
Poor Bubbles,
I play at home,
I rarely sail my Etchells at the moment, My son does.
And my Cat...well, she looks a lot like this
http://tinyurl.com/8lysb
but unfortunately I won't be seeing her for another 12 months..that's
life.

Whoa!... Good Grief that looks like the cat version of the Mac 26X or Mac
65. It must echo like heck down there. That is bar-none the cheapest looking
interior I have ever seen on a cat. I mean even fake wood grain like the
35s5 would be an improvement. The helm seat looks like a recipe for a bad
back. The galley looks old and the berths uninviting. The passageways look
very narrow. I doubt Bob could fit through some of them let alone in the
berths. You'd have to wear shades down below to avoid "Snow Blindness".

I guess I was expecting a comfortable interior with a bit less emphasis on
"bland"... but if you are chartering, that boat is bullet proof since
what could get damaged inside?

What is the displacement??.... a couple of tons?

Do you have to inflate the hulls????

CM

The Fastest Boats
 

Whoa!... Good Grief that looks like the cat version of the Mac 26X or
Mac
65. It must echo like heck down there. That is bar-none the cheapest
looking
interior I have ever seen on a cat.

Mooron, thanks for being honest. That Cat is UGLEEEEE! Doug probably
knows it, but hasn't the balls to say it. The interior is certainly the
worst I've seen. She looks purpose built for charter, but who'd want
to? Jeff's PDQ and Neal's 27 are no longer the ugly champs.....Ozzy's
boat looks like a set from THX 1131. I specially like the helm station
where I can still hear the builder saying..."Wait! I won't be able to
see where I'm steering!"
Ladies and gentleman...Ozzy is the NEW winner of the uglee boat award
2006.
Thank you and good night!

RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 29 Nov 2005 02:46:56 -0800, "Capt. Rob"
scribbled thusly:

Only in your uninformed opinion ;-)

Sorry, Ozzy...the Trawler is always at speed and can sail dead into the
wind. It has it all over the Cat. It's also a much better looking boat.
I mean...look at this slab sided thing:

http://www.pdqyachts.com/ver2/yachts...ts/an-4204.jpg

If you can live with that, more power to ya!

And you don't own a 46' cat. I'm sure you'll claim you do....but I know
you don't. You post here 24/7, even when I was away last summer. I
seriously doubt you sail your Etchells at all anymore.


RB
35s5
NY

Poor Bubbles,
I play at home,
I rarely sail my Etchells at the moment, My son does.
And my Cat...well, she looks a lot like this
http://tinyurl.com/8lysb
but unfortunately I won't be seeing her for another 12 months..that's
life.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

The Fastest Boats
 

And this is a bad thing? Shuttlecraft can do faster than light.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
# Appearance. I'll leave that to you. They grow on you.


I've looked at cats for years. I can stand some of the larger ones. But
models under around 45 feet are ugly. They all look the the Enterprise
Shuttlecraft after a water landing. The beauty of a sailboat is a big
factor for a lot of sailors.


RB
35s5
NY

The Fastest Boats
 

Do you have sail-drive diesels in that thing?

OzOne wrote

And my Cat...well, she looks a lot like this
http://tinyurl.com/8lysb
but unfortunately I won't be seeing her for another 12 months..that's
life.

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:00:33 -0800, "Capt. JG"
scribbled thusly:

Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?

Prefer galley down.
We have direct access to the galley from the saloon.

When the PDQ 42 was being designed, they asked at the PDQ owners (at
an owners' meeting where over half the boats were represented) whether
they preferred up or down. The overwhelming answer was galley down.
Every galley up cat I've seen has compromised the both the galley and
the saloon.

The Fastest Boats
 

I rarely sail my Etchells at the moment, My son does.

I thought you were going to get a new one?

OzOne wrote:
I bought a new one last year,
Unfortunately other stuff has gotten in the way of sailing her.

Bummer.
Story of my life, most of it.

My son is sailing and has sold the old one he had.


I hope he is at least properly thankful, and taking good
care of her.

DSK

The Fastest Boats
 

I guess that makes sense, but the cooks like galley up I'd think... they get
to see what's going on outside.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
OzOne wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:00:33 -0800, "Capt. JG"
scribbled thusly:

Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?

Prefer galley down.
We have direct access to the galley from the saloon.

When the PDQ 42 was being designed, they asked at the PDQ owners (at an
owners' meeting where over half the boats were represented) whether they
preferred up or down. The overwhelming answer was galley down. Every
galley up cat I've seen has compromised the both the galley and the
saloon.

The Fastest Boats
 

Capt. JG wrote:
I guess that makes sense, but the cooks like galley up I'd think... they get
to see what's going on outside.

The lower galleys still have portlights but the guests can't see the
mess as easily.

The Fastest Boats
 

What is your draft?

I like the cats with sail drives angled out of the side
of the hull--less chance to break them, no decrease
in draft, and you can service them from the escape hatch.

OzOne wrote

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
Do you have sail-drive diesels in that thing?

OzOne wrote

Diesels yes, but on shafts with folding props.

The Fastest Boats
 

Why?

I like galley up, but the boat has to be big enough
for that. Cooking is a big part of sailing, and placing
the cook, icebox, and food in a handy spot is only
a good thing.

OzOne wrote
"Capt. JG" scribbled thusly:

Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?

Prefer galley down.
We have direct access to the galley from the saloon.

The Fastest Boats
 

Did they ask them if they would like the galley up
on a bigger cat?

"Jeff" wrote
OzOne wrote:
"Capt. JG" scribbled thusly:

Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?

Prefer galley down.
We have direct access to the galley from the saloon.

When the PDQ 42 was being designed, they asked at the PDQ owners (at an
owners' meeting where over half the boats were represented) whether they
preferred up or down. The overwhelming answer was galley down. Every
galley up cat I've seen has compromised the both the galley and the
saloon.

The Fastest Boats
 

The group was the PDQ owners association. At that time, by definition
we were 2/3 owners of the the 36, the rest had the 32. More than half
of the fleet was represented; most of us are, were, or planned to be,
long distance cruisers. Both boats have the same galley down, open
layout. That is, the cook is not isolated but can see into the the
saloon and hand food up.

The parameters of the new 42 were outlined, and the audience was
asked, "If you were buying this boat, would you prefer galley up or
galley down?" The response was about 90% for galley down.

Also of interest, we were told that the computer only took a few
minutes to design the hull after a few parameters were fed in. The
hard parts were the structural design, the interior design, and all of
the tooling. And were told we could get one for $350K; the price
today is over $650K.




Bart Senior wrote:
Did they ask them if they would like the galley up
on a bigger cat?
Galley down? What do you think about this verses galley up as far as ld
crusing goes?
Prefer galley down.
We have direct access to the galley from the saloon.
When the PDQ 42 was being designed, they asked at the PDQ owners (at an
owners' meeting where over half the boats were represented) whether they
preferred up or down. The overwhelming answer was galley down. Every
galley up cat I've seen has compromised the both the galley and the
saloon.

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote
"Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

What is your draft?

400mm rudders up but still in the water

Wow, that is the shallowest draft I've heard of in a cat.
I could live with that.

With the dagger boards up, do they protrude above the
deck?

What about the design of the rudders? Are they the
cassette type that slide up and down in a cylinder?

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote in message

BoooHooo, now you're upsetting me.
Thing is CM, she weighs 6500kg and draws 400mm....you work it out.
She will sail donuts around your tub and keep the beer colder.

Now there's a scary picture... Overproof being circled by Moby Dock!


Horses for courses.
Oh, and those are not pics of my boat (well actually one is).
Mine has less white, a tad more timber (real timber veneer :-) ) and
more colour.

Anything to break up the institutional white decor. I bet it's a wonderful
party boat.

CM

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote in
"Bart Senior" .@. scribbled

With the dagger boards up, do they protrude above the
deck?
Yes.

Well you can't have everything. It would be nice if they
didn't stand proud of the deck.

What about the design of the rudders? Are they the
cassette type that slide up and down in a cylinder?

Cassettes.
The whole rudder can be withdrawn from the top for repair.

Nice. I've seen that design, and think it is ideal. You
could drop a whole new spare rudder right in, in a few
minutes. Take some pictures if you get a chance.

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:10:42 GMT, "Capt.Mooron"
scribbled thusly:

Anything to break up the institutional white decor. I bet
it's a wonderful
party boat.

Great party boat, lots of drink fridges and bunks.


and air conditioning?

The Fastest Boats
 

OzOne wrote
Great party boat, lots of drink fridges and bunks.

and air conditioning?


If I wanted air conditioning, I'd stay at home.
It has no place on a yacht.


OH! The HORROR !!!

The Fastest Boats
 

Fast is relative. A hotel on a barge (cruise ship) will do over 20 knots and
a bird farm close to 50 .....