You know, I don't like bashing a boat...especially for things it was
never meant to do. Jeff is incapable of defending his PDQ and is
actually, point by point, making it seem like the PDQ is a poor sailing
boat. While Jeff isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, we don't benefit
when a search turns up silly comparisons on Google. Buyers come away
thinking the PDQ is a "bad" sailboat and only Tom Thumb could be
comfortable cruising a 35s5.

So, being the more sensible of the two...I'll FAIRLY outline the two
boats....

Cruising:
Either boat can be cruised anywhere by any sailor. Period. Jeff's idea
that you need a level toilet or a non-heeling boat are his preferences
only. Comfort is a subjective thing and you rate it by needs and
circumstance. The 35s5 is comfortable for us just as the PDQ is for
Jeff.

Racing:
The 35s5 is a fun and fast boat, dual purpose design that is good for
serious or occasional racing. The PDQ 36 was not concieved as such. No
fair comparison can or should be made.

Performance:
Under the strict definition of performance, which includes directional
control of a vessel, pointing is very high on the list. So is ability
to tack quickly and handling. In these areas the 35s5 has the
advantage. It also gives the sailor more feedback. The 35s5 is also
excellent in light air due to a reasonable powerful sailplan and low
wetted surface. Any way you dice it the 35s5 is going to be a more
stimulating boat to sail and I think Jeff would agree.

Speed:
Yes, I place this under a different heading....it's own in fact. A
Tayana 48 is faster than a Lightening, but that's not saying it's a
better performer. So let's deal with speed on it's own boat for boat.
Multi's are generally faster than monohulls. Period. The 35s5 might
beat the PDQ around the bouys, but probably not over the long haul. The
PDQ is simply too fast off the wind. While the 35s5 might surf to match
speed, it would be like going 6 rounds with Jake Lamotta to do it for
any extended period.

Comfort:
No doubt about it at all. The wider, roomier PDQ is more comfortable.

Build Quality:
While I have learned that the 35s5 was among Beneteau's best built
yachts, I'd guess that the PDQ is somewhat tougher. Part of this is due
to the extreme weight saving measures takin on the 35s5. Still a boat
built for cruising exclusivley should be of sturdier construction and
the PDQ enjoys a good reputation in that regard.

Looks:
Obviously very subjective. I, for one, feel that any monohul is better
looking than multi's. I've long been in love with the shape of boats.
While the design of the PDQ 36 is intriguing to me, I don't warm to
it's appearance in the least. Opinions will differ and the owner of a
Hinkley will wonder that a space shuttle like the 35s5 was ever
concieved.

Suitability and practicality:
Obviously this is really all Jeff and I have been debating. Who bought
the boat best suited for what they wanted? Jeff has listed some
negatives about his PDQ, but he accepts them among the many compromises
that every boat must make. I can claim a half victory here with fewer
problems anticpated with my choice, but then I won't be sailing in all
the conditions and distances that Jeff has. My 35s5 doesn't have to
work as hard to meet my needs as a fun local weekend cruiser.

Both the PDQ 36 and 35s5 are fine examples of their design genres and
both continue to enjoy success as they compete well with the current
market of new boats. The sailor who buys a multi must be willing to
give up certain aspects of the sailing experience. A sailor who sticks
with monohulls, even heavy cruisers, must be willing to endure less
comfort overall reaping the rewards of a sailing experience that is
entirely personal and subjective.

Now Jeff...before you cry and yell for ending our silly debate,
consider all the negatives that will pop up on both boats via web
searches. It's not a good thing for us, our fine vessels or other
owners or buyers.

I hereby end this debate and will no longer respond to associated
threads comparing the 35s5 to a PDQ 36, Swan 70 or a paddle wheel
steamer.

Capt. Robert B
35s5...the boat that took the high road
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
You know, I don't like bashing a boat...

Ah, should we start with the countless times you've trashed everyone's
boats, especially Bendies?

Or you claimed everyone should kill themselves for not having exactly
the same features you imagine you'll have?

That's what this is really about, Bob. You've been given a taste of
your own medicine. You weren't content to say you found a boat that
suited your needs well (as I said in my first comment), you had to
brag incessantly about how its better than everyone else's, and we
should all kill ourselves. You want us all to be envious, but most of
us look for other things in boats; I'll bet most people here wouldn't
keep your boat if it was given to them.


especially for things it was
never meant to do. Jeff is incapable of defending his PDQ and is
actually, point by point,

Only in pointing, as you point out. Otherwise, you haven't actually
said anything bad about it. Doesn't feel right, doesn't look right;
these are reasons for you not to buy one, not real problems with the
boat. BTW, did you know it has Whitlock steering?

making it seem like the PDQ is a poor sailing
boat.

You never defended the Bendy cruising issues, other then to say
without A/C it would be horrific. On that we can agree.

While Jeff isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, we don't benefit
when a search turns up silly comparisons on Google. Buyers come away
thinking the PDQ is a "bad" sailboat

Of course, they could look for one to buy and find that they're very
hard to come by. Even that one that was trashed in a hurricane and
rebuilt went (I think) for over $100K. And it was an oddball before
it was trashed on the beach. The closest "comparable" to mine went
for over 90% of the original price at 6 years old.

and only Tom Thumb could be comfortable cruising a 35s5.

So, being the more sensible of the two...I'll FAIRLY outline the two
boats....

Cruising:
Either boat can be cruised anywhere by any sailor. Period. Jeff's idea
that you need a level toilet or a non-heeling boat are his preferences
only. Comfort is a subjective thing and you rate it by needs and
circumstance. The 35s5 is comfortable for us just as the PDQ is for
Jeff.

Yes indeed. The benny is comfortable for all the cruising Bob will
do. Clearly, almost any boat can be "cruised." I have friends that
would throw sleeping bags under the bow of a Lark (halfway between a
420 and 470) and take off for a long weekend. I've done the same in a
15 foot centerboard Mercury. My first keel boat didn't have running
water and the head was under the v-bunk and the engine didn't see 2
hours use in 5 years - and it took us to Maine.

But you can also say there's no difference between Motel 6 and the
Plaza - they both have a bed, a chair, and a toilet. And lots of
folks have had great trips never staying anyplace better than a Motel
6. But I wouldn't call them a great vacation destination.



Racing:
The 35s5 is a fun and fast boat, dual purpose design that is good for
serious or occasional racing. The PDQ 36 was not concieved as such. No
fair comparison can or should be made.

The PDQ may not be designed for round-the-buoys racing, but it walks
away from most monohulls starting at 60 true. But why does Bob care?
He never races. Why focus on racing when the boat will never be raced?


Performance:
Under the strict definition of performance, which includes directional
control of a vessel, pointing is very high on the list. So is ability
to tack quickly and handling. In these areas the 35s5 has the
advantage. It also gives the sailor more feedback. The 35s5 is also
excellent in light air due to a reasonable powerful sailplan and low
wetted surface. Any way you dice it the 35s5 is going to be a more
stimulating boat to sail and I think Jeff would agree.

Certainly if you define performance as performing like you imagine
your boat will, it will win here. On the other hand, I find zipping
back and forth on Buzzards' Bay at 12 knots very stimulating.


Speed:
Yes, I place this under a different heading....it's own in fact. A
Tayana 48 is faster than a Lightening, but that's not saying it's a
better performer. So let's deal with speed on it's own boat for boat.
Multi's are generally faster than monohulls. Period. The 35s5 might
beat the PDQ around the bouys, but probably not over the long haul. The
PDQ is simply too fast off the wind. While the 35s5 might surf to match
speed, it would be like going 6 rounds with Jake Lamotta to do it for
any extended period.

Comfort:
No doubt about it at all. The wider, roomier PDQ is more comfortable.

Build Quality:
While I have learned that the 35s5 was among Beneteau's best built
yachts, I'd guess that the PDQ is somewhat tougher. Part of this is due
to the extreme weight saving measures takin on the 35s5. Still a boat
built for cruising exclusivley should be of sturdier construction and
the PDQ enjoys a good reputation in that regard.

Looks:
Obviously very subjective. I, for one, feel that any monohul is better
looking than multi's. I've long been in love with the shape of boats.
While the design of the PDQ 36 is intriguing to me, I don't warm to
it's appearance in the least. Opinions will differ and the owner of a
Hinkley will wonder that a space shuttle like the 35s5 was ever
concieved.

Or, you could try comparing the PDQ to the looks of other catamarans.
I didn't pick a PDQ because it was prettier than a Hinckley or
Herreshoff. But I'd agree that some of the condomarans are butt ugly.


Suitability and practicality:
Obviously this is really all Jeff and I have been debating. Who bought
the boat best suited for what they wanted? Jeff has listed some
negatives about his PDQ, but he accepts them among the many compromises
that every boat must make. I can claim a half victory here with fewer
problems anticpated with my choice, but then I won't be sailing in all
the conditions and distances that Jeff has. My 35s5 doesn't have to
work as hard to meet my needs as a fun local weekend cruiser.

Why not consider draft? Five feet is certainly less than 7, but
you're giving up some of that windward performance you claim is
everything. The PDQ is under 3 feet, enough to find an anchorage
where monos don't dare to go. And, with twin keels, she can be
beached, or simply grounded without risk. And, since the keels are
sacrificial, if you whack a rock hard, or run over a reef, the damage
is limited.

Why not consider Safety? I have collision bulkheads, flotation
chambers, its virtually unsinkable. An immense, stable foredeck; no
steep companionway, modest rig. Twin engines, twin steering. And one
little thing - it doesn't have to heel to go upwind!

And obviously powering is of little value to you, but it does come in
handy it times. Its nice to be able to power at 7.5 knots in smooth
water, and make over 5 knots straight into a 30 knot breeze with 3
foot chop.

There's a variety of other features of a catamaran that you're
ignoring. You're judging it largely by your experience and needs,
which are rather limited.

And one more thing - put some netting up on that open transom - Thomas
is big enough to cruise right over.


Both the PDQ 36 and 35s5 are fine examples of their design genres and
both continue to enjoy success as they compete well with the current
market of new boats. The sailor who buys a multi must be willing to
give up certain aspects of the sailing experience. A sailor who sticks
with monohulls, even heavy cruisers, must be willing to endure less
comfort overall reaping the rewards of a sailing experience that is
entirely personal and subjective.

Now Jeff...before you cry and yell for ending our silly debate,
consider all the negatives that will pop up on both boats via web
searches. It's not a good thing for us, our fine vessels or other
owners or buyers.

I hereby end this debate and will no longer respond to associated
threads comparing the 35s5 to a PDQ 36, Swan 70 or a paddle wheel
steamer.

I'll quit while I'm ahead.

But I'm still waiting for those polars - both yours and mine, for
better or worse. If you don't have access to yours, you should get
them from ussailing - its worth the money. I'll bet you'd even find
something in there to brag about.

If you don't have access to yours, you should get
them from ussailing - its worth the money. I'll bet you'd even find
something in there to brag about.


I saw the polars for my boat and they were pretty impressive, with good
VMG into the mid 30's. As for the rest...I wouldn't buy a Catamaran
unless I was too old to sail a regular boat, period. I don't like the
looks or feel. And that's all that matters in the end. Giving me a long
list of advantages of a boat that's nearly as wide as it is long is
hardly impressive. It's expected. I can also list the advantages of
Doug's trawler. But it has little to do with what MOST people like
about sailing a boat. And when enthusiasts DO seek out a multi it's
generally one that flies a hull and heels, Jeff.
After all these months and years, you actualy think anyone here can
give me a taste of my own medicine? You have no idea that you've been
dragged through the mud by me again about a boat that I may or may not
have! In 10 days you'll know (again) how much fun I had making you
chase your tail. On the other hand, someone pointed out that these
silly threads are coming up on google and it's bad for the boats. Even
if you can't appreciate that, I certainly can. Enjoy the low road,
Jeff. You'll never find the exit ramp!

Robert B
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
If you don't have access to yours, you should get
them from ussailing - its worth the money. I'll bet you'd even find
something in there to brag about.


I saw the polars for my boat and they were pretty impressive, with good
VMG into the mid 30's. As for the rest...I wouldn't buy a Catamaran
unless I was too old to sail a regular boat, period. I don't like the
looks or feel. And that's all that matters in the end. Giving me a long
list of advantages of a boat that's nearly as wide as it is long is
hardly impressive. It's expected. I can also list the advantages of
Doug's trawler. But it has little to do with what MOST people like
about sailing a boat.

Oh. So this about what MOST people like. I don't think you really
want to go there

And when enthusiasts DO seek out a multi it's
generally one that flies a hull and heels, Jeff.
After all these months and years, you actualy think anyone here can
give me a taste of my own medicine?

No, I don't expect this had any impression on you at all. But
consider: nobody believes a thing you say about anybody or any boat.
But they all seem to agree with what I say.

What is said in this forum is of little import. What's counts is that
at the end of the summer I've sailed 1000 miles up and down the coast,
and you've done a few daysails in sight of your slip.

You have no idea that you've been
dragged through the mud by me again about a boat that I may or may not
have!

Right Booby, you really got me when you claimed that sailing without
A/C would be horrific! And everyone here believes you really meant it!

In 10 days you'll know (again) how much fun I had making you
chase your tail.

What, the 35s5 in FL failed its survey? Gee, that wasn't predictable,
was it?

But it has little to do with what MOST people like
about sailing a boat.

h. So this about what MOST people like. I don't think you really
want to go there


Why not? It's at the core of why I don't like multihulls and why a lot
of others feel the same way. "Sailing" is a activity that certain
characteristics generally attributed to monohuls. People continue to
seek that out because it's what they like. A multi is just a different
animal and it can't be a subsitute for what many of us love about
sailing.

But they all seem to agree with what I say.

And this means what exactly. I could post water is wet and folks here
would disagree with me because it's me! That's the fun in all this. I
post just as much truth as fiction and get the same reaction. I also
get the laughs on both counts. Just because a frustrated choir is
singing along with you doesn't make me wrong!

What's counts is that
at the end of the summer I've sailed 1000 miles up and down the
coast,

I'm happy for you. But it "counts" for nothing to me because it doesn't
interest me. It "counts" for me that I ran 4 miles at 5:00 am. Does it
count for you? Surely you must get over yourself!

you really got me when you claimed that sailing without
A/C would be horrific!

Now, now. We both know that's not what I posted at all. I simply said
that SOME nights are horrific and later you AGREED saying you had some
OPRESSIVE nights as well. What's the penalty for being able to throw a
switch and not feel so uncomfortable? An extra 75 lbs of gear and
hoses? A few bucks? An air conditioner run on a schedule in a slip can
also help maintain the boat's interior. In any case, it's a moot point.
The 35s5 came with new AC.

What, the 35s5 in FL failed its survey? Gee, that wasn't
predictable,
was it?

I already posted the survey results. I would have lost a deposit if I
attempted to walk away. The very fact that you continue playing my
games proves how unpredictable I am. See if you can predict me next
thread! Look at them...I'm the source of sailing content here. It
doesn't matter that I do it with trolls, lies and nonsensical posts!
None of you are imune.


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

h. So this about what MOST people like. I don't think you really
want to go there


Why not? It's at the core of why I don't like multihulls and why a lot
of others feel the same way.

In other words, you don't like multihulls because other people don't
like them? Now we get it.

....

Just because a frustrated choir is
singing along with you doesn't make me wrong!

Nope. You do it all on your own. You're the one who seems concerned
about what most people think.



What's counts is that
at the end of the summer I've sailed 1000 miles up and down the
coast,

I'm happy for you. But it "counts" for nothing to me because it doesn't
interest me. It "counts" for me that I ran 4 miles at 5:00 am. Does it
count for you? Surely you must get over yourself!

A lot of boaters own boats to do the kind of sailing I do; others own
boats to race.

And then there are those keep them at their slips to impress their
friends, and only go out for a few hours when the weather is perfect.

Which type are you?



you really got me when you claimed that sailing without
A/C would be horrific!

Now, now. We both know that's not what I posted at all. I simply said
that SOME nights are horrific and later you AGREED saying you had some
OPRESSIVE nights as well.

You said "A boat without AC is horrific in August." You made no other
qualification. I said in 6 months of living aboard in Florida there a
a maybe few nights I might have appreciated A/C, but only because we
spent a lot of time there dockside.

The difference is the you bragged that having A/C makes it a superior
cruising boat. Having good ventilation is what makes a superior
cruising boat, the A/C is just gravy.

What's the penalty for being able to throw a
switch and not feel so uncomfortable? An extra 75 lbs of gear and
hoses? A few bucks? An air conditioner run on a schedule in a slip can
also help maintain the boat's interior. In any case, it's a moot point.
The 35s5 came with new AC.

because it needed it.


What, the 35s5 in FL failed its survey? Gee, that wasn't
predictable,
was it?

I already posted the survey results. I would have lost a deposit if I
attempted to walk away. The very fact that you continue playing my
games proves how unpredictable I am. See if you can predict me next
thread! Look at them...I'm the source of sailing content here. It
doesn't matter that I do it with trolls, lies and nonsensical posts!
None of you are imune.

Now you're the streaker - it doesn't matter how embarrassing it is for
you, as long as people look!

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..

Why not consider Safety? I have collision bulkheads, flotation
chambers, its virtually unsinkable. An immense, stable
foredeck; no
steep companionway, modest rig. Twin engines, twin steering.
And one
little thing - it doesn't have to heel to go upwind!


Seems like the better choice if one has a toddler.



And obviously powering is of little value to you,


Wha? Aren't you talking to powerboater Bob?

Scotty

little thing - it doesn't have to heel to go upwind!

Seems like the better choice if one has a toddler.


Yeah, we really wanna start off teaching him that sailboats don't heal
and slow his development of balance. Thomas was on a Galaxy 32 two
weeks ago and the heeling thrilled him. Where's the fun ride on a
multihull? Oh, yeah...there is none! With his harness he's no less safe
aboard. My friend has a 5 year old who spent every summer on his Galaxy
32 and the kid is far more physically advanced than his peers. He
attributes it too all the heeling and general experience on the
boat...I agree. On a multihull he might as well just go for a drive in
the SUV. That's the big difference between Jeff and I. Jeff is all
about getting to where he's going without spilling his drink or
motoring. We actually like the sailing itself.

RB
35s5
NY

And obviously powering is of little value to you,


Wha? Aren't you talking to powerboater Bob?


Jeff has TWO engines!!!


RB
35s5
NY