Bob... there isn't a flaw as far as I'm concerned. .... unless "Line
Honours" or 1st Place is all that counts for you when racing. I think
Overproof's rating is 180... so I don't care if I have a fully pro crew or
my usual party animals.... I'm not taking line honours from a Farr 38 nor a
C&C 35s5 on a standard harbour course. I'd be lucky to make middle of the
pack in that bunch.

I generally know where I'm going to place and try to use the conditions
which give my vessel the advantage to improve that. It's simply a matter of
"You knew the job was dangerous when you chose it". Racing is okay as a
diversion.... but it's far from my favourite activity.

Like I said previously... I found out I won first place even though I was
sure we had only placed 3rd once.

CM


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Since I've actually been in PHRF races and most of you only read about
them, here's a little test for you. The Wednesday night race consists
of the following boats:

Spirit 23
Coronado 27
Siedlemann 30
Catalina 30
J24
Nordic 30
Express 30
Kirie Elite 32
Beneteau 35s5
Beneteau 36.7
Farr 38
C&C 34R
C&C 115

Quite a range of boats and ratings....NOW...what is the biggest
inherent flaw in this race...and most races with a range of boats like
this? Spare me the answers with NO answers. If you can't understand the
basic flaw don't pretend that you can.
Well?


Robert B
35s5...a boat that would have a tougher time winning PHRF
NY

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message news:I74bf.79891$S4.46233@edtnps84...
| Bob... there isn't a flaw as far as I'm concerned. .... unless "Line
| Honours" or 1st Place is all that counts for you when racing. I think
| Overproof's rating is 180... so I don't care if I have a fully pro crew or
| my usual party animals.... I'm not taking line honours from a Farr 38 nor a
| C&C 35s5 on a standard harbour course. I'd be lucky to make middle of the
| pack in that bunch.
|
| I generally know where I'm going to place and try to use the conditions
| which give my vessel the advantage to improve that. It's simply a matter of
| "You knew the job was dangerous when you chose it". Racing is okay as a
| diversion.... but it's far from my favourite activity.
|
| Like I said previously... I found out I won first place even though I was
| sure we had only placed 3rd once.
|
| CM


Any type of 'handicap' racing with any kind of rating system is not
reality and those who participate in all such exercises are not smart
enough to realize they are participating in a farce.

The only real winner of any sailboat race is the first boat across
the finish line. The only real loser is each and every boat that
participates and us real sailors out there trying to sail with a
bunch of assholes who don't have a clue about the Rules of
the Road endangering our legitimate activities.

Racing is NOT sailing.

CN

Capt. Rob wrote:
The possibility that the slower boats might not finish within the time
limit. Which is why a club might split the boats into groups (fast
yacht,
slow yacht, white sails, etc).


That's true....these boats may be broken down into various classes, but
that's not the BIG PHRF FLAW I'm looking for.


RB
35s5
NY

How about the Time on Time or Time on Distance controversy?

Gary

Capt. Rob wrote:
The biggest problem from Bob's point of view is that the rules always
favor the best skippers.


I think you missed the point. The best skippers favor the best boats,
skewing the PHRF in favor of lesser boats with "good" skippers.

RB
35s5...a not so fast boat with a low rating because benny bought some pro's!
NY

So you're claiming that your bendy is actually much slower than its
rating would imply. In other words, it owes its low rating to the
"pro's and semi-pro's" and not to its design. You'll have to remember
that when you're passed by a Nonsuch.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
The biggest problem from Bob's point of view is that the
rules always
favor the best skippers.


I think you missed the point. The best skippers favor the
best boats,
skewing the PHRF in favor of lesser boats with "good"
skippers.

RB
35s5...a not so fast boat with a low rating because benny
bought some pro's!
NY

So you're claiming that your bendy is actually much slower than
its
rating would imply. In other words, it owes its low rating to
the
"pro's and semi-pro's" and not to its design. You'll have to
remember
that when you're passed by a Nonsuch.


if bob starts racing and , of course, losing a lot, will that
make the 35s rating go higher?

SBV

Capt. Rob wrote:

That's true....these boats may be broken down into various classes,
but that's not the BIG PHRF FLAW I'm looking for.

How many PHRF races have you done?


--
Capt Scumbalino

How many PHRF races have you done?


Not many, a few each season for the last 10 years or so. I'm certainly
not experienced at it. I raced a few J24's in class more often and that
was more fun as well.

RB
35s5...better faster and more fun!
NY

"Gary" wrote in message
news:LV4bf.408217$oW2.261955@pd7tw1no...
Capt. Rob wrote:
The possibility that the slower boats might not finish within the time
limit. Which is why a club might split the boats into groups (fast
yacht,
slow yacht, white sails, etc).


That's true....these boats may be broken down into various classes, but
that's not the BIG PHRF FLAW I'm looking for.


RB
35s5
NY

How about the Time on Time or Time on Distance controversy?

Gary

PHRF doesn't specify having to score any particular way. You can do either
under PHRF.

John Cairns

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Since I've actually been in PHRF races and most of you only read about
them, here's a little test for you. The Wednesday night race consists
of the following boats:

Spirit 23
Coronado 27
Siedlemann 30
Catalina 30
J24
Nordic 30
Express 30
Kirie Elite 32
Beneteau 35s5
Beneteau 36.7
Farr 38
C&C 34R
C&C 115

Quite a range of boats and ratings....NOW...what is the biggest
inherent flaw in this race...and most races with a range of boats like
this? Spare me the answers with NO answers. If you can't understand the
basic flaw don't pretend that you can.
Well?


Robert B
35s5...a boat that would have a tougher time winning PHRF, or one design,
or the special olympics
NY

Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that they've
owned their boats for years, and they can sail them to their rating, more
often than not, they can sail them faster than their rating. They know their
boats, something that generally takes a little longer than a couple of hours
to achieve You forget, or more likely, never knew, that PHRF is merely a
RATING system for the YACHT. I told you to read that last paragraph twice,
maybe I should have told you to read it over and over again until you
actually understood what they were trying to say. PHRF does not now, nor has
it ever, advocated any particular method of scoring a race. If you looked
far and wide you could find a group of sailors that handicap lack of skill,
the overwhelming majority do not, however. Best stick to trying to outsail
those "slower" boats.

John Cairns

Not many, a few each season for the last 10 years or so. I'm
certainly
not experienced at it. I raced a few J24's in class more often and that

was more fun as well..

I say bull****. You would have posted 2 page cronicles of your
adventures the day after. You never posted anything about being
involved in a race as long as I've been here. In fact you knocked
people who did. Busted!