Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got into a
long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her sucked in tail
section, how she picked up generous waterline when heeled...a big
debate broke out about downwind sailing.
"They're pigs downwind and it takes a lot of talent to go fast." A few
nods of agreement. The boat's name, Windward First is a joke about how
fast she is on that tack. Dead downwind can be rough. Other discussion
about how it was important to keep her nose up with a modified set of
the chute, sacrificing some shape for downdraft, but I don't have
enough experience with chutes to understand the nitty gritty. Her owner
says we'll fly the chute the day before we decommission her.
I found the boat fast downwind, but I wasn't racing of course. Racing
is sometihing we'll try with her, but it's far from a top priority. As
a cruiser she'll be faster than most.
Then another discussion started about her wing. The owner said she was
quicker to semi-plane with the wing than his previous deep draft model.
"But there's more wetted surface and the foil is for lateral
pressures/lift and can be counterproductive downwind", came another
remark. Her owner said this wasn't the case.
Anyway...thoughts on this? I'm no performance hound but I listened with
interest to all. None of it matters much for our intended usage, but
this will be my first "performance" boat so I want to know more!

Robert B
35s5
NY

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Well Bob..... she's a fin keeler! She'll go to weather in light air. She'll
suck a turtle's backwash dead downwind... but you might get some speed out
of it on a broad reach if you reef plenty.

I can get 13 kts steady out of Overproof dead down wind... fully loaded with
2K of booze, food for 5 days with a 6 man crew in 34 kts of wind... full
main, 150 Genoa.... and still not spill drinks. :-)

Best keep your squirrelly little racer in the bay laddie.... the sea is no
place to play with light plastic....

CM


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got into a
long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her sucked in tail
section, how she picked up generous waterline when heeled...a big
debate broke out about downwind sailing.
"They're pigs downwind and it takes a lot of talent to go fast." A few
nods of agreement. The boat's name, Windward First is a joke about how
fast she is on that tack. Dead downwind can be rough. Other discussion
about how it was important to keep her nose up with a modified set of
the chute, sacrificing some shape for downdraft, but I don't have
enough experience with chutes to understand the nitty gritty. Her owner
says we'll fly the chute the day before we decommission her.
I found the boat fast downwind, but I wasn't racing of course. Racing
is sometihing we'll try with her, but it's far from a top priority. As
a cruiser she'll be faster than most.
Then another discussion started about her wing. The owner said she was
quicker to semi-plane with the wing than his previous deep draft model.
"But there's more wetted surface and the foil is for lateral
pressures/lift and can be counterproductive downwind", came another
remark. Her owner said this wasn't the case.
Anyway...thoughts on this? I'm no performance hound but I listened with
interest to all. None of it matters much for our intended usage, but
this will be my first "performance" boat so I want to know more!

Robert B
35s5
NY

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Best keep your squirrelly little racer in the bay laddie.... the sea is
no
place to play with light plastic....

And yet that's where people tend to sail these boats for fun. Don't be
silly, Mooron. Plenty of folks modify even straight racers for cruising
because they don't want crab crushers. I'm still young enough to have
no interest in a crabcrusher.

I won't comment on the 13 knots. I'm too busy knitting a sweater for
the Loch Ness Monster and it's nearly done.

RB
35s5...the better performing boat by far!

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

What the hell is "semi-plane" Never heard that term before. Is that
when you think your going fast enough to almost plane? Truth is: you
either own a sport boat or a displacement boat. What a jackass.

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Dear oh dear, It seems you were mixing with a bunch without a clue.



I have a feeling the owner of Doyle sails and the most winning Tartan
10 sailor have a clue. So far no one has even caught on to who the
owner of my 35s5 was, even after finding the documentation. Amazing.
When Loco find out who was on my sea trial he'll **** a sea turtle...or
Scotty's Wife!


RB

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

What the hell is "semi-plane"? Is that when you think you are going
fast enough to almost plane? Boob........ there is no such thing. You
either sail a sport boat or a displacement boat. What a jackass.

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got into a
long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her sucked in tail
section

???

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are not
"sucked in" at all.

... how she picked up generous waterline when heeled...a big
debate broke out about downwind sailing.
"They're pigs downwind..."

OzOne wrote:
Dear oh dear, It seems you were mixing with a bunch without a clue.


Or just making it all up. The Ben 35s5 is sort of a cruiserized copy of
a late IOR type, with a flat section aft meeting the transom. It is not
a pinched 1970s IOR 'broach coach' stern.

As for a wing keel helping a boat plane, that's certainly possible
(after all, Moths are now flying)
http://www.int-moth.org.uk/PopUpAdam3.htm

but that would negate the righting moment of the keel's weight. Hmmm
does anybody think this could be a problem?

Bubbles, you're nuts!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got
into a
long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her
sucked in tail
section

???

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are
not
"sucked in" at all.


it's got a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper Swim Platform.

SBV

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are not
"sucked in" at all


Doug, in all seriousness, you're not correct about this. The aft
sections are indeed sucked in and it's easy to see. I can photograph it
soon if you like.
Lock, I've heard the term semi-plane for years and years in regard to
boats like the 35s5, 30/30's and various J-boats. The 35s5 hull bottom
has a flat section at the bow to give it lift and in some situations it
will semi-plane. I'm pretty shocked that you never heard it. It becomes
more and more clear that you've sailed in a bubble your whole life.

Robert B
35s5....a boat quick to semi-plane.
NY

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

it's got a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper Swim Platform.


Yeah, maybe we can back it up and scoop up your whole family!

RB

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are not
"sucked in" at all


Capt. Rob (aka Bubbles, who is nuts) wrote:
Doug, in all seriousness, you're not correct about this. The aft
sections are indeed sucked in and it's easy to see. I can photograph it
soon if you like.

Go ahead. I already know exactly what it looks like, there's one in our
marina.

Actually, the hull is similar to an early 1980s IOR type when designers
began realizing that a small fast boat can beat a big slow one. Instead
of pinched ends to maximize waterline, and tiny little reverse counter
transoms, boats got to be like big dinghies with flatter aft sections
(the Ben 35s5 has a very flat panel section) and bigger transoms.

Oz1 will probably remember "Smackwater Jack" which was one of the first.

DSK

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

I have a boat that is clearly a displacement hull, yet it can plane
in some
situations. Been there, done that..

Is this guy the Boob's sockpuppet or what. OK I guess a super tanker
can plane in some conditions. Face it numbskull neither your boat or
the boob's boat is gonna plane like a MUMM 30.

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

"Captain Joe Redcloud" wrote in message

I have a boat that is clearly a displacement hull, yet it can plane in
some
situations.

Yeah.... being towed by Powerboat!!

Bwahahahahahahahaaa.....

Good Grief PJ!!!!


CM

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Scotty wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got

into a

long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her

sucked in tail

section

???

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are

not

"sucked in" at all.



it's got a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper Swim Platform.

SBV



"Swinehood hath no remedy"
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

"Flying Tadpole" wrote:


Scotty wrote:
"DSK" wrote:

When we shorthauled the 35s5 the surveyor and a few of us got

into a

long discussion about the IOR influence on the 35s5. Her

sucked in tail

section

???

Have you actually seen a Beneteau 35s5 stern sections? They are

not

"sucked in" at all.



it's got a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper Swim Platform.

SBV



"Swinehood hath no remedy"

Wow! You're a friend of Snotty (and katysails too)! I think Australians
went down in IQ about 10% after this post! Sorry Oz, I wasn't referring to
you.

LP

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Scotty and I were just talking about you.

Where have you been?

"Flying Tadpole" wrote

Scotty wrote:

it's got a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper Swim Platform.

SBV



"Swinehood hath no remedy"
--
Flying Tadpole

Light Schooners
 

BTW

How do those light schooner heave-to?

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Flying Tadpole wrote:
"Swinehood hath no remedy"

Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more time!

Regards
Doug King

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Oz1 will probably remember "Smackwater Jack" which was one of the first.



OzOne wrote:
Unfortunately, I remember her all too well, she was a big arsed girl
and you could hear her coming as she slammed her way uphill.


I only saw pictures of her in magazines. IIRC the hull was boxy, almost
straight back from max beam to transom, and very wide & flat aft. What
was her construction like?

It was tragic that the people aboard were lost in that storm.

DSK

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

It does have a remedy. Frying bacon.

"DSK" wrote

Flying Tadpole wrote:
"Swinehood hath no remedy"

Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!

Doug King

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Sorry, Bart. It's both a poetic and a macroscopic reference.
Glooms of the live-oaks etc...

Bart Senior wrote:
It does have a remedy. Frying bacon.

"DSK" wrote


Flying Tadpole wrote:

"Swinehood hath no remedy"

Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more

time!

Doug King




--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Light Schooners
 

OzOne wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 02:17:36 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. scribbled
thusly:


BTW

How do those light schooner heave-to?



Upside down!


Very funny, ahaha.

FOr reference: http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tipsreef.htm#start

Flying Tadpole II is semi-derelict at this stage, needs a
complete workover and I don't have time. Will probably sell
as is where is for $2000. Worth it for the sails alone.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

DSK wrote:
Flying Tadpole wrote:

"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear
condemned to spend the height of summer commuting to the
deserts... it's make money while the oil boom is on. lady
Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

I live in the Permian Basin. The oil boom is working everyone here hard. I
assume your going through the same?


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:
Flying Tadpole wrote:

"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear condemned to
spend the height of summer commuting to the deserts... it's make money
while the oil boom is on. lady Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic
sandstones by the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas
stays in the Permian. Disgusting water quality, one of my
headaches. Holes crumble in the coal, that's the engineers'
problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets,
widely spread. I'm running my little leggies off doing the
environmental for most of thje smaller companies. And it's
mostly in a Park. Not to mention Ramsar treaty wetlands of
international importance. At least I see water and can go for
a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water though.
Must visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all
the time...

jlrogers wrote:
I live in the Permian Basin. The oil boom is working everyone here hard. I
assume your going through the same?


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Flying Tadpole wrote:


"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear condemned to
spend the height of summer commuting to the deserts... it's make money
while the oil boom is on. lady Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com




--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Light Schooners
 

OzOne wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 20:27:19 +1030, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 02:17:36 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. scribbled
thusly:



BTW

How do those light schooner heave-to?



Upside down!


Very funny, ahaha.

FOr reference: http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tipsreef.htm#start

Flying Tadpole II is semi-derelict at this stage, needs a
complete workover and I don't have time. Will probably sell
as is where is for $2000. Worth it for the sails alone.


Sorry to hear that Taddy.
Where is she now, would the Duck Flats guys be interested in
resurrecting her?

Home. I haven't asked yet. Epoxy went under polyurethane
paint so a lot of surface checking (cheaper ply, thin surface
plies...can fix with a very light glass/epoxy layer, but that
means more weight. OTOH, the original folding schooner was in
a far worse state, now a work of art.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Light Schooners
 

"Flying Tadpole" wrote:


Flying Tadpole II is semi-derelict at this stage, needs a
complete workover and I don't have time. Will probably
sell as is where is for $2000. Worth it for the sails
alone.

I'm sorry to hear that; work is the curse of the sailing
class...
Hope you find a good home for her.

Seahag

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

We have less challanging environmental problems. Our problem is that most
of the easy oil and gas is gone. There's far more left than has been
harvested over the last hundred years, but the required technology to get it
has just been developed. That, along with new 3-D sismographic software,
coupled with a hundred years of logging data, has reduced the risk greatly.

I can't see water (desert area) unless I go at least 300 miles from home.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic sandstones by
the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas stays in the Permian.
Disgusting water quality, one of my headaches. Holes crumble in the coal,
that's the engineers' problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets, widely spread.
I'm running my little leggies off doing the environmental for most of thje
smaller companies. And it's mostly in a Park. Not to mention Ramsar
treaty wetlands of international importance. At least I see water and can
go for a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water though. Must
visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all the time...

jlrogers wrote:
I live in the Permian Basin. The oil boom is working everyone here hard.
I assume your going through the same?


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Flying Tadpole wrote:


"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear condemned to
spend the height of summer commuting to the deserts... it's make money
while the oil boom is on. lady Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com




--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

This is desert too, either sandridge (Strzelecki Desert) or
stony desert (Sturt's Stony Desert) but running through the
middle is Cooper's Creek, fed by monsoonal rains in QUeensland
and normally ending up in vast floodouts in the middle of the
desert (every three-four years)

jlrogers wrote:
We have less challanging environmental problems. Our problem is that most
of the easy oil and gas is gone. There's far more left than has been
harvested over the last hundred years, but the required technology to get it
has just been developed. That, along with new 3-D sismographic software,
coupled with a hundred years of logging data, has reduced the risk greatly.

I can't see water (desert area) unless I go at least 300 miles from home.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic sandstones by
the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas stays in the Permian.
Disgusting water quality, one of my headaches. Holes crumble in the coal,
that's the engineers' problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets, widely spread.
I'm running my little leggies off doing the environmental for most of thje
smaller companies. And it's mostly in a Park. Not to mention Ramsar
treaty wetlands of international importance. At least I see water and can
go for a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water though. Must
visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all the time...

jlrogers wrote:

I live in the Permian Basin. The oil boom is working everyone here hard.
I assume your going through the same?


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


Flying Tadpole wrote:



"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear condemned to
spend the height of summer commuting to the deserts... it's make money
while the oil boom is on. lady Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com



--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com




--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

We have the Pecos River flowing through the basin. Only problem is, the
people between us and the Rocky Mountains use so much of the water that by
the time it reaches the basin the river has become a small stream.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
This is desert too, either sandridge (Strzelecki Desert) or stony desert
(Sturt's Stony Desert) but running through the middle is Cooper's Creek,
fed by monsoonal rains in QUeensland and normally ending up in vast
floodouts in the middle of the desert (every three-four years)

jlrogers wrote:
We have less challanging environmental problems. Our problem is that
most of the easy oil and gas is gone. There's far more left than has
been harvested over the last hundred years, but the required technology
to get it has just been developed. That, along with new 3-D sismographic
software, coupled with a hundred years of logging data, has reduced the
risk greatly.

I can't see water (desert area) unless I go at least 300 miles from home.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic sandstones by
the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas stays in the Permian.
Disgusting water quality, one of my headaches. Holes crumble in the coal,
that's the engineers' problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets, widely spread.
I'm running my little leggies off doing the environmental for most of
thje smaller companies. And it's mostly in a Park. Not to mention
Ramsar treaty wetlands of international importance. At least I see
water and can go for a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water
though. Must visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all the
time...

jlrogers wrote:

I live in the Permian Basin. The oil boom is working everyone here
hard. I assume your going through the same?


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


Flying Tadpole wrote:



"Swinehood hath no remedy"


Now *that* was funny.

Glad you dropped in for a moment, Taddy. Come back when you have more
time!


TIme isn't going to happen till next year, Feb. I appear condemned to
spend the height of summer commuting to the deserts... it's make money
while the oil boom is on. lady Kate hates me.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com



--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com




--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic sandstones by
the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas stays in the Permian.
Disgusting water quality, one of my headaches. Holes crumble in the coal,
that's the engineers' problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets, widely spread.
I'm running my little leggies off doing the environmental for most of thje
smaller companies. And it's mostly in a Park. Not to mention Ramsar
treaty wetlands of international importance. At least I see water and can
go for a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water though. Must
visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all the time...


jlrogers wrote:
We have less challanging environmental problems. Our problem is that most
of the easy oil and gas is gone. There's far more left than has been
harvested over the last hundred years, but the required technology to get it
has just been developed. That, along with new 3-D sismographic software,
coupled with a hundred years of logging data, has reduced the risk greatly.

I can't see water (desert area) unless I go at least 300 miles from home.

At the risk of starting something that might lure you both away from
*real* sailing, check out one of these-

http://www.windisfun.com/buggyplan.html

http://www.kolius-sailing.com/Dinghies/blokart.htm

DSK

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

The cactus, sage, and mesquite would rip it to shreds, if it could move
through the sand.


"DSK" wrote in message
...



"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Yes, except the oil is washed up into the Triassic/JUrassic sandstones by
the Great Artesian Basin hot water (!) Most gas stays in the Permian.
Disgusting water quality, one of my headaches. Holes crumble in the coal,
that's the engineers' problem...

Also, COoper Basin is very dispersed--small oil targets, widely spread.
I'm running my little leggies off doing the environmental for most of
thje smaller companies. And it's mostly in a Park. Not to mention
Ramsar treaty wetlands of international importance. At least I see
water and can go for a canoe if there's time (not...) No sailable water
though. Must visti Burke & Wills graves instead of driving past all the
time...


jlrogers wrote:
We have less challanging environmental problems. Our problem is that
most of the easy oil and gas is gone. There's far more left than has
been harvested over the last hundred years, but the required technology
to get it has just been developed. That, along with new 3-D sismographic
software, coupled with a hundred years of logging data, has reduced the
risk greatly.

I can't see water (desert area) unless I go at least 300 miles from home.

At the risk of starting something that might lure you both away from
*real* sailing, check out one of these-

http://www.windisfun.com/buggyplan.html

http://www.kolius-sailing.com/Dinghies/blokart.htm

DSK

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

jlrogers wrote:

The cactus, sage, and mesquite would rip it to shreds, if it could move
through the sand.


Put chaps on, then.

DSK

Downwind Pigs-IOR Type
 

"DSK" wrote in message ...
|
| Put chaps on, then.
|
| DSK
|

Must you gay up every post?

CN