Well, that's better than having Canadians do it for us. Then, all you'll get
is a drunken terrorist eyeing some innocent farm animal.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:sAp8f.53976$y_1.5197@edtnps89...

"Vito" wrote in message
Seriously, you provide too little info to form any opinion in this case.

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a third
World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

CM

Oh, I apologize.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:sAp8f.53976$y_1.5197@edtnps89...

"Vito" wrote in message
Seriously, you provide too little info to form any opinion in this case.

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a third
World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

CM

Ganzy??... Do you even bother to engage your brain prior to submitting
these indicators of your total idiocy?

No seriously?!! You have serious issues....

....and I think you're GAY!

CM

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, that's better than having Canadians do it for us. Then, all you'll
get is a drunken terrorist eyeing some innocent farm animal.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:sAp8f.53976$y_1.5197@edtnps89...

"Vito" wrote in message
Seriously, you provide too little info to form any opinion in this case.

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a third
World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

CM

And I thought I was a lousy troll. I even apologized. Bwaahahahahaaa

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:%Pt8f.49666$yS6.26595@clgrps12...
Ganzy??... Do you even bother to engage your brain prior to submitting
these indicators of your total idiocy?

No seriously?!! You have serious issues....

...and I think you're GAY!

CM

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, that's better than having Canadians do it for us. Then, all you'll
get is a drunken terrorist eyeing some innocent farm animal.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:sAp8f.53976$y_1.5197@edtnps89...

"Vito" wrote in message
Seriously, you provide too little info to form any opinion in this
case.

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a
third World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

CM

In article sAp8f.53976$y_1.5197@edtnps89, Capt.Mooron
wrote:

"Vito" wrote in message
Seriously, you provide too little info to form any opinion in this case.

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a third
World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

And people like Vito wonder why even their long term friends and allies
like us Aussies are starting to leave. Doing stuff like this via some
******** 2rd World country makes you the same as them. The phrase
'whited sepulchure' comes immediately to mind.

PDW

"Capt.Mooron" wrote
Let me know what you think... it's been done to several Canadians,
Australians, British citizens by the USA already. you are having a third
World Nation do your torture and interrogation for you.

I am saddened and embarassed that such a thing would happen. However, I
doubt he was sent to Syria "so they could torture him for us" because our
torturers know the kind of torture those countries use is very ineffective.
What answers did they get? What they wanted to hear of course. They beat
on him til they got them. And they'd have gotten the same no matter what
the truth was. Our experts know this and use better psychological methods
that physical torture negates. So I cannot imagine what led to his being
sent to his country of birth, vs Canada, except bureaucratic idiocy.

Never mistake for malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity -
and I suspect that's the case here, combined with the obvious result of
giving a scared bully a badge and gun and some rules to enforce. We saw the
same thing at Waco and Ruby Ridge. In fact, I'll be driving to Florida in a
few weeks rather than fly and face these idiots. Want some fun? Try
explaining to some $5/hr security guard that he cannot open your briefcase
because he is not cleared to inspect its classified contents, nor is his
boss or a local cop, that they'll have to call in the FBI.

"Peter Wiley" wrote
And people like Vito wonder why even their long term friends and allies
like us Aussies are starting to leave. ....

Faced with a frozen nut on your boat's motor, that you knew would come loose
with a bit to WD-40 in a few hours or days, would you instead reach for a
cutting torch? No? Well the US would not send anyone to Syria so he could be
tortured by their brutal ineffective methods either. I'm sorry you think
otherwise. Not that we are too moral but, having tried those methods at the
Salem Witch Trials, we know they don't work.

The Auzzi held at Gitmo is not being physically tortured. He was captured in
Afganistan by Afghans whilst fighting for al Qaeda and the Taliban, having
left his family in Oz unsupported and gone there to support a gang who
killed women for being literate and no, I do not pity him. Why do you? He
gve up his rights as an Australian when HE eagerly adopted the radical
Muslim system. Now he has been tried under that system and given to us for
deprogramming in liu of execution. Would you rather he'd been beheaded?

The fellow Capt. M. mentions apparently held dual Canadian/Syrian
citizenship, the latter by birth. I can only speculate why he was sent to
Syria vs Canada except that was where he was born. I sincerely doubt he was
sent there so Syria could torture information out of him for us if only
because we know that such info is unreliable. If we thot he knew something
he be at Gitmo.

"Vito" wrote in message


Well the US would not send anyone to Syria so he could be
tortured by their brutal ineffective methods either. I'm sorry you think
otherwise. Not that we are too moral but, having tried those methods at
the
Salem Witch Trials, we know they don't work.

Well Vito..... that's entirely the reason why he was sent. It is common
policy for the USA to do that to avoid their own laws. If you read the
report they informed not only this individual but the other three that they
were being interogated for information by request of the USA.

Look Syria is no friend of the USA... but it knows what needs to be done to
avoid "action" against it. Most of the insurgents in Irag come from or thru
Syria. As long as they provide a service to the USA... no action will be
taken. Syria has no interest in interogatting a Canadian Citizen. Most are
sympathetic to the insurgents.


The fellow Capt. M. mentions apparently held dual Canadian/Syrian
citizenship, the latter by birth. I can only speculate why he was sent to
Syria vs Canada except that was where he was born. I sincerely doubt he
was
sent there so Syria could torture information out of him for us if only
because we know that such info is unreliable. If we thot he knew
something
he be at Gitmo.

No you couldn't.... he was not "captured" nor was he on any "list". He was
forthcoming with all information and was denied legal counsel and the
opportunity to contact Canadian officals and his family.

Vito.. wake up! It was wrong, it's been done on numerous occaisions, it's
not an isolated incident, it's illegal, it flys in the face of your
constitution and claims of moral decency. It's happening and you seem to
treat it like an anomaly..... when in fact it's SOP.

Our RCMP are being raked across the coals for their compliance to US demands
regarding this situation. Our diplomat to Syria is on the hotseat. He was
warned by the US diplomat to not get involved in this.... and didn't report
it.

You have not undertaken this with US citzens holding dual citizenship.

For gawds sake he was a 30 year old engineer who had been in Canada since he
was 17. He had a loving family and children. He was a contributing member of
society with no history of criminal behaviour. He spent 2 years being
tortured for information he did not have.... all at the request of your
government and their paranoid state of operation.

What level are you guys on right now... yellow or orange? Does it matter?...
do you even pay attention anymore? Do you even notice your rights and
freedoms being erroded? Is it because they are only taking small pieces of
it away at a time?

Did you see the website where US soldiers can post pictures of their
"Kills"...??? Strange world we live in!

With power comes responsibility...

CM

In article cjq9f.63704$y_1.10985@edtnps89, Capt.Mooron
wrote:

"Vito" wrote in message


Well the US would not send anyone to Syria so he could be
tortured by their brutal ineffective methods either. I'm sorry you think
otherwise. Not that we are too moral but, having tried those methods at
the
Salem Witch Trials, we know they don't work.

Well Vito..... that's entirely the reason why he was sent. It is common
policy for the USA to do that to avoid their own laws. If you read the
report they informed not only this individual but the other three that they
were being interogated for information by request of the USA.

Look Syria is no friend of the USA... but it knows what needs to be done to
avoid "action" against it. Most of the insurgents in Irag come from or thru
Syria. As long as they provide a service to the USA... no action will be
taken. Syria has no interest in interogatting a Canadian Citizen. Most are
sympathetic to the insurgents.


The fellow Capt. M. mentions apparently held dual Canadian/Syrian
citizenship, the latter by birth. I can only speculate why he was sent to
Syria vs Canada except that was where he was born. I sincerely doubt he
was
sent there so Syria could torture information out of him for us if only
because we know that such info is unreliable. If we thot he knew
something
he be at Gitmo.

No you couldn't.... he was not "captured" nor was he on any "list". He was
forthcoming with all information and was denied legal counsel and the
opportunity to contact Canadian officals and his family.

Vito.. wake up! It was wrong, it's been done on numerous occaisions, it's
not an isolated incident, it's illegal, it flys in the face of your
constitution and claims of moral decency. It's happening and you seem to
treat it like an anomaly..... when in fact it's SOP.

Our RCMP are being raked across the coals for their compliance to US demands
regarding this situation. Our diplomat to Syria is on the hotseat. He was
warned by the US diplomat to not get involved in this.... and didn't report
it.

You have not undertaken this with US citzens holding dual citizenship.

For gawds sake he was a 30 year old engineer who had been in Canada since he
was 17. He had a loving family and children. He was a contributing member of
society with no history of criminal behaviour. He spent 2 years being
tortured for information he did not have.... all at the request of your
government and their paranoid state of operation.

What level are you guys on right now... yellow or orange? Does it matter?...
do you even pay attention anymore? Do you even notice your rights and
freedoms being erroded? Is it because they are only taking small pieces of
it away at a time?

Did you see the website where US soldiers can post pictures of their
"Kills"...??? Strange world we live in!

With power comes responsibility...

No. With power comes corruption, and greater power means greater
corruption.

As an Australian, I'm moving towards supporting China economically and
politically. I'm reluctant to do this but given the USA's long record
of constitutional protection is now a sick joke, China's record is
starting to look better, and they're big enough to resist the USA.

Economically, Australia will probably be better off than dealing with
the USA anyway.

PDW

In article , Vito
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote
And people like Vito wonder why even their long term friends and allies
like us Aussies are starting to leave. ....

Faced with a frozen nut on your boat's motor, that you knew would come loose
with a bit to WD-40 in a few hours or days, would you instead reach for a
cutting torch? No? Well the US would not send anyone to Syria so he could be
tortured by their brutal ineffective methods either. I'm sorry you think
otherwise. Not that we are too moral but, having tried those methods at the
Salem Witch Trials, we know they don't work.

Except that you *have* done it and there's no reason to think you've
stopped doing it. Your personal refusal to believe it is irrelevant.

The Auzzi held at Gitmo is not being physically tortured. He was captured in
Afganistan by Afghans whilst fighting for al Qaeda and the Taliban, having
left his family in Oz unsupported and gone there to support a gang who
killed women for being literate and no, I do not pity him. Why do you? He
gve up his rights as an Australian when HE eagerly adopted the radical
Muslim system.

No, he didn't give up his rights as an Australian. In fact he's not
committed any crime under then existing Australian law. We have
freedom of religion in Australia so his being a Muslim is irrelevant to
what he does, legally. When did the USA outlaw Islam?

Now he has been tried under that system and given to us for
deprogramming in liu of execution. Would you rather he'd been beheaded?

If he was caught on the field of battle, shooting at people, out of
uniform, he could have been shot or summarily executed and I wouldn't
care at all. Once you bring him into the system, that's different. I've
come to the conclusion that you're never going to see this.

The fellow Capt. M. mentions apparently held dual Canadian/Syrian
citizenship, the latter by birth. I can only speculate why he was sent to
Syria vs Canada except that was where he was born. I sincerely doubt he was
sent there so Syria could torture information out of him for us if only
because we know that such info is unreliable. If we thot he knew something
he be at Gitmo.

You've got nowhere to go in that one Vito, except denial. It happened.
It was illegal. It isn't the only case. Nobody is safe transitting a US
airport if your Govt thinks they know something.

People like you are pushing people like me away. I'm a right wing gun
nut by Australian standards. What do you think the long term
consequences of this sort of bull**** is going to be? Next time you
guys want to run a little invasion I'll be lobbying against it rather
than for it, because I now think your political leadership is
deliberately lying, condoning torture, and violating the principles
that supposedly distinguish you guys from the likes of Saddam's Iraq.

We'll move closer to the Chinese, who are becoming a big trading
partner and no worse to trade with than you guys, while being far far
less hypocritical about their hold on power. It's not going to be our
loss because as a lower middle ranking power with huge energy, iron and
uranium resources, we'll always be able to find customers. We're really
the only First World country in the southern hemisphere.

You're rapidly losing the moral authority that gets allies to willingly
support you. After that you're left with naked power and threats. Soon
after that, things start really falling apart. It's amazing how
successful the Al Quaeda nutcases have been in trashing your
institutions by psychological leverage, getting your own people to do
their dirty work for them, while willing fools like you cheer on the
process. All achieved at the cost to them of a handful of deaths in the
aircraft back in 2001. So far it's cost you 2000 American lives in Iraq
and what - a billion dollars a day? While making enemies out of more
and more people. Way to go.......

You guys are idiots. Deal with it.

PDW