"Joe" wrote
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend
the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and
that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States

That's a tough one - having to obey orders from the Constitution's worst
enemy.

It seems to me that a soldier who served one tour of duty in
Afghanistan
may be a deserter, but he's not a coward or a traitor.


Joe wrote:
That because you give no creedence to a oath.

Not true at all.

You were in the military...or so you say


If I were going to lie, I'd make it more impressive.


Guess you forgot everything you swore.


Nope. Wrong again. I'm just not as quick to condemn as you are. Maybe I
don't have some kind of psychological need to hate others.

DSK

Quick to condemn?

He admits he is a deserter.

I did not condemn him he did it to himself, what about that do you not
understand. It's not like we are missing evidence, or proof.

Do you support liars?

And BTW he is a traitor.

Definitions of traitor on the Web:

someone who betrays his country by committing treason
double-crosser: a person who says one thing and does another
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Definitions of treason on the Web:

a crime that undermines the offender's government
disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Do you need me to define betrayal?

Joe

Joe wrote:
Quick to condemn?


Yes, as in calling people ugly names.

I bet you probably would not to his face.


He admits he is a deserter.


That does not make him a traitor nor a coward.

It's possible that he is one, or both, but why rush to condemn him based
on your political prejudices? If you are so enthusiastic about war in
Iraq, why not go yourself? Are you a coward?

DSK

Be Careful Joe;

Jon and Doug are both in the process of sloping and slanting YOUR post
about the TRAITOR and making you the DEFENDENT!

OT

Do you know what he did in Afghanistan? A cook in a kitchen thats what.
Big bad paratrooper..wonder why they stuck him with galley duty?

And BTW since this is a time of war he can be put to death for
deserting.

IMO that may be a bit harsh, but 20 yrs in levenworth seem to fit the
crime. And it's seems Canada judicial systems thinks it's 'not
excessive or disproportionately severe.'

Well done Canada. Guess they found out traitors aren't really worth
having as citizens.

Joe



Joe

Doug,

Do you consider D. Arnold a traitor? He severed with distinction before
going against his Army Oath.

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

Do you consider D. Arnold a traitor? He severed with distinction before
going against his Army Oath.


Do you mean Benedict Arnold?

Heck yes he is a traitor. Among other things, he was commissioned as a
general officer by the British after attempting to hand over West Point
(an important strategic fort at the time). You're right, before that he
served with great distinction... some would say he was the best American
general of the Revolutionary War.

There is a big difference between treason and desertion. Benedict Arnold
did not merely desert his post. He actively warred against the United
Stated.

Yet another point:
Military personnel fleeing to Canada from Stateside posts aren't even
deserters. They're AWOL. To be a deserter, you have to flee your post in
a war zone.

DSK

DSK wrote:


Yet another point:
Military personnel fleeing to Canada from Stateside posts aren't even

deserters. They're AWOL. To be a deserter, you have to flee your post
in
a war zone.

DSK

Desertion is defining as leaving with "intent to remain away
permenantly"
(Article 85 UCMJ.) Since the intent is often difficult to prove, most
cases
are simply charged as Unauthorized Absence (Article 86 UCMJ).
Virtually all
Article 86 cases serious enough for court martial will go to a Special
Court
Martial where the maximum penalty is Confinement for 6 months,
reduction to pay
grade E-1, forfeiture of pay, and a Bad Conduct Discharge.


If Charged with Desertion, the case is usually heard at a General Court
Martial, where the Maximum punishment for Article 85 (IIRC) is 5 years
confinement and a Dishonorable Discharge.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Desertion is defining as leaving with "intent to remain away
permenantly"

True, it's also defined as leaving in order to avoid hazardous duty.

So, you're right... those who flee to Canada are guilty of desertion.

That does *not* make them guilty of treason.





(Article 85 UCMJ.) Since the intent is often difficult to prove, most
cases
are simply charged as Unauthorized Absence (Article 86 UCMJ).
Virtually all
Article 86 cases serious enough for court martial will go to a Special
Court
Martial where the maximum penalty is Confinement for 6 months,
reduction to pay
grade E-1, forfeiture of pay, and a Bad Conduct Discharge.


If Charged with Desertion, the case is usually heard at a General Court
Martial, where the Maximum punishment for Article 85 (IIRC) is 5 years
confinement and a Dishonorable Discharge.


** *** ** quote ** *** **
UCMJ article 85 (c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to
desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by
death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the
desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such
punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
** *** ** quote ** *** **

It is proclaimed daily that we're at war. You've made that claim
yourself, including stating that IYHO torture is justified because of
the despicable nature of the enemy... as though the U.S. habitually (or
even occasionally) made war on perfectly reasonable & morally elevated
enemies... so do you think that deserters should be tortured, too? It
would certainly discourage further desertion!

You also have avoided answering the question, when are you going to
combat duty in Iraq? Or if you feel you're too old, how about sending
one or more of your kids?

Doug King