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Sailboat runs aground in Oxnard, CA
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It's a rough coast.
Best advertisement I ever saw was for Oxnard. It was for some resort. It said, "Oxnard. Not just another pretty name." -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Alan Gomes" wrote in message ... http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html |
that was a pretty boat too
"Alan Gomes" wrote in message ... http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html |
That's really a shame. Beautiful vessel. Irving Johnson must be spinning
in his grave. DSK Alan Gomes wrote: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html |
That's really a shame. Beautiful vessel. Irving Johnson must be spinning in his grave. DSK I agree. Irving Johnson was a great sailor and this vessel was intended to carry on his legacy and tradition. Ole Capt. Irving would never of gotten the ship into this situation. From what I read, the ship was only a couple years old and it appears the weather was fairly clear and calm. I would expect that an investigation would reveal that the current set the ship south of the main channel jetty. I have never enter the Oxnard channel but I've seen similar situations around the entrances to other So. California boat harbors. In looking at the pictures, I was disappointed to see very small size of the boat trying to tow the "ship" out into open water. (so much for Vessel Assist). I wonder if they insisted on the "Capt" signing a tow agreement before they put a line onboard. Well, hopefully she will be towed free before any major damage is done and can sail again (with a new Capt.). Just my opinion and comments, FWIW. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
The visibility was good but there were high surf advisories at the time.
Ventura and Oxnard harbors were more open to the effects of this than some of the other harbors down the coast (such as San Pedro/Long Beach, where I'm located). I was up there in January. I don't think the harbor is especially tricky to navigate, though in high surf conditions from the west it could be difficult. From what I could piece together from the new reports, it appears to have been a navigation error (i.e., the skipper thought the water was deeper than it was) rather than losing control in adverse conditions. --Alan Gomes "Steve" wrote in message ... That's really a shame. Beautiful vessel. Irving Johnson must be spinning in his grave. DSK I agree. Irving Johnson was a great sailor and this vessel was intended to carry on his legacy and tradition. Ole Capt. Irving would never of gotten the ship into this situation. From what I read, the ship was only a couple years old and it appears the weather was fairly clear and calm. I would expect that an investigation would reveal that the current set the ship south of the main channel jetty. I have never enter the Oxnard channel but I've seen similar situations around the entrances to other So. California boat harbors. In looking at the pictures, I was disappointed to see very small size of the boat trying to tow the "ship" out into open water. (so much for Vessel Assist). I wonder if they insisted on the "Capt" signing a tow agreement before they put a line onboard. Well, hopefully she will be towed free before any major damage is done and can sail again (with a new Capt.). Just my opinion and comments, FWIW. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
Winds were @20k from the West with a decent size swell.
Don't know if it was a nav error, misjudged turn, current and swell problem, or combination of "all of the above". When last I saw her, she was finally broadside to the beach, away from the jetty and rolling about 45deg either way. The winds finally died out about midnight, but considering her construction (heavy), if they don't rig her correctly and have a good deal of luck, pulling her off is not going to be an easy task. Biggest problem now will be getting aboard to rig her. otn |
it appears the weather was fairly clear and calm.
The East Santa Barbara buoy data indicates the waves were around 7.5 feet and continuous winds around 22 knots. |
otnmbrd wrote:
Winds were @20k from the West with a decent size swell. Don't know if it was a nav error, misjudged turn, current and swell problem, or combination of "all of the above". When last I saw her, she was finally broadside to the beach, away from the jetty and rolling about 45deg either way. The winds finally died out about midnight, but considering her construction (heavy), if they don't rig her correctly and have a good deal of luck, pulling her off is not going to be an easy task. Biggest problem now will be getting aboard to rig her. otn Hmmm... local info seems to indicate a hidden sandbar was the trouble. The captain called for depth info and harbor control said it was tested Sunday and all was good. But since that test a 10 foot sandbar appeared which caught the boat bottom and started the eventual distress. I guess there isn't a lot of extra clearance in the approach to that small harbor. B |
Bink B wrote:
otnmbrd wrote: Winds were @20k from the West with a decent size swell. Don't know if it was a nav error, misjudged turn, current and swell problem, or combination of "all of the above". When last I saw her, she was finally broadside to the beach, away from the jetty and rolling about 45deg either way. The winds finally died out about midnight, but considering her construction (heavy), if they don't rig her correctly and have a good deal of luck, pulling her off is not going to be an easy task. Biggest problem now will be getting aboard to rig her. otn Hmmm... local info seems to indicate a hidden sandbar was the trouble. The captain called for depth info and harbor control said it was tested Sunday and all was good. But since that test a 10 foot sandbar appeared which caught the boat bottom and started the eventual distress. I guess there isn't a lot of extra clearance in the approach to that small harbor. B Until the investigation is complete, all sorts of possibilities will exist and we may never know for sure, but the "hidden sandbar" would not be high on my list, for causes. If he's going to use that as a defense, he best get some good soundings.....soon. otn |
Does anyone know if it was the north or the south entrance?
My cruising guides and charts indicate that the north entrance is subject to shoaling and should be avoided. I'm curious which entrance they were making for. |
Absolutely. I've found students, especially those who are near the end of
the class I teach, to be quite eagar to get those sails furled and the halyards unclipped. Bad move if you need to get a sail up quickly. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Red Cloud©" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:43:43 -0800, "Alan Gomes" wrote: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html Some folks are so "neat and orderly" obsessed that they overlook the fact that sails should not be furled until you are well past tricky entrances. You never know when you are suddenly going to need them. The story mentions that the Irving Johnson's sails were furled. Someone in charge apparently was more concerned with style than safety. Dumb move. Bad result. Some key sails should have been kept at the ready. red |
Brien Alkire wrote:
Does anyone know if it was the north or the south entrance? My cruising guides and charts indicate that the north entrance is subject to shoaling and should be avoided. I'm curious which entrance they were making for. South or G East entrance, depending on your point of view. Sad part is, that in watching, their was a point where the bow was close to being on the breakwater, that the wind, current, whatever, turned the boat so that it was pointing to sea. Considering the boats movement, if there had been someone still aboard and the engine was still operational, they may have been able to power her off. Shortly after this point, the boat turned further to port and beached port side too. Presently there are divers in attendance, rigging a tow line with the hopes of pulling her off in the morning. All day the wind has been SE 20-30k (not good) and it's obvious she is silting in ..... hope they make it, but I'm not optimistic. otn |
I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like
those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article. They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to rec.boats please. CN "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... "Alan Gomes" wrote in news:a8adncHccqo9I6LfRVn- : http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html I don't suppose THESE sailors made any comments about shooting at jetskiiers with guns and missles.....like I've seen in the past on these newsgroups.....(c; Hypothermia might have been a problem without those "damned jetskiiers" so quickly on the scene..... |
The "jetskiers" were members of the local fire/sheriff swif****er rescue
teams "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... "Alan Gomes" wrote in news:a8adncHccqo9I6LfRVn- : http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html I don't suppose THESE sailors made any comments about shooting at jetskiiers with guns and missles.....like I've seen in the past on these newsgroups.....(c; Hypothermia might have been a problem without those "damned jetskiiers" so quickly on the scene..... |
It still is......for now...
I was talking to a guy who spent all last week on the yacht, as the cook. He told me that the vessel drew 11' and the keel was 73'..... That would leave little room for error in what I know to be a heavily shoaled entrance. I was just there last week delivering a motoryacht. My guess is that as they approached from the south, they did not stand off the coast until the last and then run straight in towards the detached breakwater(and beach), turning sharply to port inside the lee as they rode or followed a wave in. They probably saved time with a direct route that kept the seas on the port beam as they aproached and found themselves with breaking surf on them at the entrance! Maybe not broaching them, yet certainly carrying them precious valuable and non affordable feet to leeward, and onto the shoal. Captain Mack www.gosailnow.com |
Alan Gomes wrote: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html Those ships (Irving and Exy) are Crelock designs, absolutely beautiful. I've sailed on them. I can't understand why the anchors are still aboard and the dinghy is in the davits. First thing I would have done was to run all the anchors I could find as far out as possible and try to horse the thing head to the swell and wind. |
Jim wrote:
I can't understand why the anchors are still aboard and the dinghy is in the davits. First thing I would have done was to run all the anchors I could find as far out as possible and try to horse the thing head to the swell and wind. The seas were such that the dinghy would probably have swamped before you got 100 ft out. It is a beautiful boat, but not worth a human life. Lew |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article. They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to rec.boats please. CN Oh boy! this *was* a nice peaceful newsgroup......... a respite from the rabble at wrecked boats. |
I was there when the incident happened along with several other members of
the Citizen's Auxiliary Police. As one of the first on the scene, I can say with great authority, you didn't miss the mark on this one Capt. Neal. Jay Santos "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article. They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to rec.boats please. CN "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... "Alan Gomes" wrote in news:a8adncHccqo9I6LfRVn- : http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032...p_aground.html I don't suppose THESE sailors made any comments about shooting at jetskiiers with guns and missles.....like I've seen in the past on these newsgroups.....(c; Hypothermia might have been a problem without those "damned jetskiiers" so quickly on the scene..... |
Lew Hodgett wrote: Jim wrote: I can't understand why the anchors are still aboard and the dinghy is in the davits. First thing I would have done was to run all the anchors I could find as far out as possible and try to horse the thing head to the swell and wind. The seas were such that the dinghy would probably have swamped before you got 100 ft out. It is a beautiful boat, but not worth a human life. Lew Lew; It wasn't that rough that day. The dinghy is a 13 foot Avon rib with a 15/20 horse outboard. I have the same dinghy, with a 25. That boat will handle a lot more than anything that they could have found that day. |
Has anyone heard if the attempt to re-float/tow the "Irving Johnson" have
succeeded?? I haven't seen anything in the last 24 hrs on the national news. The longer she languishes there, the less hope there is for a successful attempt. Thanks. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
Red Cloud=A9 wrote: For the latest information: http://www.lamitopsail.org/index.asp =20 rusty Thanks Bobspirt! Joe MSV RedCloud The boat to envy |
This mornings attempt, unsuccessful
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Red Cloud© wrote: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:24:03 GMT, Red Cloud© wrote: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:58:08 -0800, "Steve" wrote: Has anyone heard if the attempt to re-float/tow the "Irving Johnson" have succeeded?? I haven't seen anything in the last 24 hrs on the national news. The longer she languishes there, the less hope there is for a successful attempt. Thanks. Steve s/v Good Intentions For the latest information: http://www.lamitopsail.org/index.asp rusty The Irving Johnson has been successfully towed to deeper water and appears to be intact. rusty redcloud The people who built those little ships really did an amazing job. Took quite a pounding. Every morning I expected the worst. And Jim Gladson deserved a lot of credit for his management style, from what I saw. I guess we all can learn from this to have a plan for such an emergency. I still wonder why those anchors were still in their chocks. |
There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie |
Don White wrote:
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article. They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to rec.boats please. CN Oh boy! this *was* a nice peaceful newsgroup......... a respite from the rabble at wrecked boats. Complain to the the person who originally cross-posted. |
Jim wrote:
The people who built those little ships really did an amazing job. Took quite a pounding. Every morning I expected the worst. And Jim Gladson deserved a lot of credit for his management style, from what I saw. I guess we all can learn from this to have a plan for such an emergency. I still wonder why those anchors were still in their chocks. How much do they weigh? What is the weight of the chain? What would be the requirements for the equipment to haul the anchors and chain to an area that could do any good? What equipment was available to do so? What amount of pull could the Irving Johnson apply to that gear, once it was set? otn |
You are probably right, that group makes few mistakes.
The anchors are huge, but their dinghy is a good one, with a substantial outboard. The dinghy was still in the davits until the last day on the beach. What do you do? otnmbrd wrote: Jim wrote: The people who built those little ships really did an amazing job. Took quite a pounding. Every morning I expected the worst. And Jim Gladson deserved a lot of credit for his management style, from what I saw. I guess we all can learn from this to have a plan for such an emergency. I still wonder why those anchors were still in their chocks. How much do they weigh? What is the weight of the chain? What would be the requirements for the equipment to haul the anchors and chain to an area that could do any good? What equipment was available to do so? What amount of pull could the Irving Johnson apply to that gear, once it was set? otn |
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Jim wrote:
You are probably right, that group makes few mistakes. The anchors are huge, but their dinghy is a good one, with a substantial outboard. The dinghy was still in the davits until the last day on the beach. What do you do? The problem with running out the anchors in this particular case, immediately after the grounding, was SAFELY getting to them and working them with a small boat in the given sea conditions and considering all else that is going on regarding passenger and crew safety with the close proximity of the breakwater. There will be much "Monday Morning Quaterbacking" about this. In time some viable options may/will arise, but the most important considerations are that passengers, crew and vessel are all saved. otn |
Three... those who will be aground.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Gogarty" wrote in message ... In article .com, says... There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who lie. |
In article . net,
otnmbrd wrote: The problem with running out the anchors in this particular case, immediately after the grounding, was SAFELY getting to them and working them with a small boat in the given sea conditions and considering all else that is going on regarding passenger and crew safety with the close proximity of the breakwater. There will be much "Monday Morning Quaterbacking" about this. In time some viable options may/will arise, but the most important considerations are that passengers, crew and vessel are all saved. otn I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked. Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation. For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License. Me |
"Gogarty" wrote in message In article .com, says... There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who lie. Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run aground. Max |
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"Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Gogarty" wrote in message In article .com, says... There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who lie. Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run aground. Max Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water. John Cairns |
Me wrote:
I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked. Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation. For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License. Me Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this and/or why, will determine much of what happens next. As for license exams...... An exam is only an indication of how well someone takes exams and knows basic information. From there, it becomes the onus of the owners/managers of the particular vessel, to determine the suitability of an individual to perform under that license. If you look at those individuals giving the test for US upper licenses, I doubt you'd find one who is themselves, qualified to hold that license. otn |
My experience is that if you don't get out there and sail, you don't run
aground. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "John Cairns" wrote in message m... "Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Gogarty" wrote in message In article .com, says... There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who lie. Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run aground. Max Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water. John Cairns |
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