I agree with you about small boats and level of comfort. Mine is fine for
day sails, but I've never quite gotten used to the cofin-size sleeping
arrangement.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JR Gilbreath" wrote in message
.. .
No I really wasn't, but I don't know Capt Neal so I'm not sure if he does
what he says he will do or not. I haven't lurked here long enough I
guess. I have seen boats as small as 22 footers cross but I wouldn't want
to do it.
JR

JG wrote:

JR, you're joking right?

Maxprop wrote:
Wish I could recall the name of their book, but a man and his wife sailed
their 20' Pacific Seacraft Flicka from the US left coast to the South
Pacific. The overriding theme of the book was the constant, incessant
beatings they both took from their passages in such a tiny boat. They quit
counting bruises and contusions after a while, there were far too many of
each. A few serious injuries as well. His wife flew home, forcing him to
single-hand on the homeward legs. Then only HE got beat up.


There's a similar book by a couple from Germany (live near Wilmington NC
as of last report) who circumnavigated in a sistership of Sopranino... a
19 foot offshore racer. Interesting story, including quite a lot of
rough sailing. The worst injury they had to contend with IIRC was a
severe scalding from the galley... a very serious hazard in any boat (or
any kitchen FWIW).


Small boats, while capable of making open water passages, simply don't offer
the level of comfort most humans have come to expect while sailing. Length
generally equals comfort.

JG wrote:
I agree with you about small boats and level of comfort.

I'd say that either displacement or cubic capacity equals comfort.

... Mine is fine for
day sails, but I've never quite gotten used to the cofin-size sleeping
arrangement.


It's that traditional low sweeping profile. If you don't mind higher
freeboard, you get decent head (and elbow) room. The Hunter 19 was quite
comfortable for weekending, or any length of cruise where you could tie
up or anchor in good shelter at night. Wouldn't be much fun trying to
sleep offshore in it though.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The same could be said for motorhomes on the highway. In the ones greater
than 40 feet in length the potholes, small children, old ladies and bus stop
benches just seem to disappear under the wheels with no sound at all.

Lloyd


"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Joe" wrote in message

I have seen boats as small as 22 footers cross but I wouldn't
want to do it

How come?

Wish I could recall the name of their book, but a man and his wife sailed
their 20' Pacific Seacraft Flicka from the US left coast to the South
Pacific. The overriding theme of the book was the constant, incessant
beatings they both took from their passages in such a tiny boat. They
quit
counting bruises and contusions after a while, there were far too many of
each. A few serious injuries as well. His wife flew home, forcing him to
single-hand on the homeward legs. Then only HE got beat up.

Small boats, while capable of making open water passages, simply don't
offer
the level of comfort most humans have come to expect while sailing.
Length
generally equals comfort.

Max

Lloyd,

You keep driving your motorhome as a worthy Korean war veteran should.
In other words, don't take any flack from all those unexceptional people
driving little cars and little SUV's. People like them who cannot afford
homes with at least 4,700 square feet of floor space don't even deserve
to be licensed to drive. Who are they, anyhow, to impede the progress
of a war veteran who has places to go and things to do? The country
owes you a great debt of honor.

I was wondering, Lloyd, when are you going to be in the Western Estates
area so we can get together for a duet again. Summertaculer is coming
up fast.

Remember, Lloyd, honk real loud before you run somebody off the road.
The 'little people' deserve that much at least.

Love,
Margaret Gray


"Lloyd Bonafide" wrote in message .net...
I'm a Korean War veteran (Navy) and let me tell you that Marsh Harbor has
almost as much mud as Inchon Harbor. I don't know what it is with these
people's disrespect for decorated war veterans such as ourselves.

LLoyd

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Looks like you were wrong, my friend, about no mud in the Bahamas.

Read the replies to my query about mud in Marsh Harbour.

http://coconuttelegraph.net/forums/s...ead.php?t=1506

CN

"Lloyd Bonafide" wrote in message k.net...
The same could be said for motorhomes on the highway. In the ones greater
than 40 feet in length the potholes, small children, old ladies and bus stop
benches just seem to disappear under the wheels with no sound at all.

Lloyd

You go, Lloyd!

I don't want to upset you, Lloyd, but did you know the supermarket
in Alhambra is going to be giving away free sausage snacks and
cheese snacks again this Memorial Day.

Do you have another protest in mind?

Love,
Margaret Grey

"DSK" wrote in message

I'd say that either displacement or cubic capacity equals comfort.

As a rule, yes, but a hull of a given volume can reach a point beyond which
increasing displacement has a negative effect on comfort, not to mention
safety. An example of this was a Norsea 27 in which a middle age man set
out to circumnavigate some years ago. The boat has an unladen disp/length
ratio of nearly 450, and with stores, extra fuel, water, equipment, etc. the
boat was simply too heavy and performed horribly in beam seas, which rolled
her over several times before he turned tail and headed home. Displacement
seems to offset cubic capacity somewhat, making really voluminous but light
boats uncomfortable and making voluminous and heavy boats more comfortable.

Max

I'd say that either displacement or cubic capacity equals comfort.


Maxprop wrote:
As a rule, yes, but a hull of a given volume can reach a point beyond which
increasing displacement has a negative effect on comfort, not to mention
safety.

Agreed.

... An example of this was a Norsea 27 in which a middle age man set
out to circumnavigate some years ago. The boat has an unladen disp/length
ratio of nearly 450, and with stores, extra fuel, water, equipment, etc. the
boat was simply too heavy and performed horribly in beam seas, which rolled
her over several times before he turned tail and headed home.

THe problem is that he was at the margin... if you graphed motion &
stability against increasing displacement on a given hull volume, you'd
go from extremely bouncy (too bouyant) at the light extreme, to
increasingly comfortable, then back downhill again as the boat lost
responsiveness & stability (which is at least half due to bouyancy,
let's not forget), then back up again as the boat becomes a submarine...
the smoothest ride is 40+ fathoms down!


... Displacement
seems to offset cubic capacity somewhat, making really voluminous but light
boats uncomfortable and making voluminous and heavy boats more comfortable.


Yep. Everything is a trade-off. That's why life is such a good metaphor
for sailing....

Fresh Breezes-
Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
I'd say that either displacement or cubic capacity equals comfort.

Maxprop wrote:
As a rule, yes, but a hull of a given volume can reach a point beyond
which increasing displacement has a negative effect on comfort, not to
mention safety.

Agreed.

... An example of this was a Norsea 27 in which a middle age man set out
to circumnavigate some years ago. The boat has an unladen disp/length
ratio of nearly 450, and with stores, extra fuel, water, equipment, etc.
the boat was simply too heavy and performed horribly in beam seas, which
rolled her over several times before he turned tail and headed home.

THe problem is that he was at the margin... if you graphed motion &
stability against increasing displacement on a given hull volume, you'd go
from extremely bouncy (too bouyant) at the light extreme, to increasingly
comfortable, then back downhill again as the boat lost responsiveness &
stability (which is at least half due to bouyancy, let's not forget), then
back up again as the boat becomes a submarine... the smoothest ride is 40+
fathoms down!

LOL. Beneteau has, but does not distribute, graphic studies of net
displacement vs. stability for all of its boats built after the mid-90s.
Not sure if the French gov't. requires them or what, but I think they are
all just computer models depicting the safety margins of their boats. I've
seen the ones that apply to boats in the size range that interests me, and
frankly it's a bit scary. Bottom line: don't overload a 39' Beneteau. And
I'd suspect the same admonition might apply to similar boats, such as
Jeanneaus, DuFours, Catalinas, Hunters, etc.= the plastic fantastics. What
was interesting is that there seemed to be an over-center point, beyond
which the stability of the boat fell off precipitously. It was not a smooth
curve, rather it peaked, then plunged. I'm surprised that boat builders
don't publish a *do not exceed* load figure for each boat, even if they
don't want those graphs out and about.

... Displacement seems to offset cubic capacity somewhat, making really
voluminous but light boats uncomfortable and making voluminous and heavy
boats more comfortable.


Yep. Everything is a trade-off. That's why life is such a good metaphor
for sailing....

Aw, heck, I want it all, dammit. g

Max

OH MY GAWD! Who, besides Lloyd, who's senile most of the time, would believe YOU have anything to do with Western Estates?
For one thing, you' re too old and harsh-looking to be admitted here. For another, my husband Frank would veto any vote to allow you
in.
We don't want you living here with your rebel-rousing columns and racist ideas.

Give the old loser a break, Margaret, and don't humor him along like that. He's Bonafide alright - bonafide borderline lol The old
fart
is dangerous. He's daft and he's looney. Did you hear he punched a woman the other day and then bragged about doing it to defend the
honor if the country? No excuse.

What's that, Frank? My butt? C'mon, don't bother me when I'm getting something straight on the newsgroup. Yes, I know you love the
looks
of my ass since I got the imlplants, but give it a rest for now. Later, honey, later. (The man loves my body, what can I say? He
he.)

What was I saying, now? Oh yes! Stop impersonating me, Margaret! You're not young and fit and tight like me. You're an old bat who
writes
liberal columns for newspapers. I'm a mover and a shaker here at the Assn. I doubt the smallest of my four bathrooms would even fit
in your
living room. Western Estates has no openings for your type, Margaret - no offense. We have age restrictions, ya know. Western
Estates is a
young, vibrant place and you, like your name, are old and gray. We already had one old lady die when I turned off her A/C last
summer so
the noise of it wouldn't bother Frank when we're having sex. I'd be afraid you'd be next.

Cheers,
Bobbi Dooley - President of the Western Estates Homeowner's Assn.

P.S. Nobody but me is allowed to hang their underwear out to dry at Western Estates.
P.P.S. No RV's allowed in W.E. - too unsightly.
P.P.P.S. Run along now. . .
P.P.P.P.S. Yes, Frank, I'm ready for you, now. Come and get it Big Boy!!!!!




"Margaret Gray" wrote in message ...


Lloyd,

You keep driving your motorhome as a worthy Korean war veteran should.
In other words, don't take any flack from all those unexceptional people
driving little cars and little SUV's. People like them who cannot afford
homes with at least 4,700 square feet of floor space don't even deserve
to be licensed to drive. Who are they, anyhow, to impede the progress
of a war veteran who has places to go and things to do? The country
owes you a great debt of honor.

I was wondering, Lloyd, when are you going to be in the Western Estates
area so we can get together for a duet again. Summertaculer is coming
up fast.

Remember, Lloyd, honk real loud before you run somebody off the road.
The 'little people' deserve that much at least.

Love,
Margaret Gray


"Lloyd Bonafide" wrote in message .net...
I'm a Korean War veteran (Navy) and let me tell you that Marsh Harbor has
almost as much mud as Inchon Harbor. I don't know what it is with these
people's disrespect for decorated war veterans such as ourselves.

LLoyd

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Looks like you were wrong, my friend, about no mud in the Bahamas.

Read the replies to my query about mud in Marsh Harbour.

http://coconuttelegraph.net/forums/s...ead.php?t=1506

CN

You can always call the Citizen's Auxiliary police to keep the rabble out of
Western Estates. Come to our next meeting, the first Wednesday of every
month at Ted's Steak House over in Beverly Hills and every third Wednesday
at the "Oh Be Joyful" Church led by Pastor Rennick. If he's not there then
Mavis Leonard will let you in.

Jay Santos



"Bobbi Dooley" wrote in message
...

OH MY GAWD! Who, besides Lloyd, who's senile most of the time, would
believe YOU have anything to do with Western Estates?
For one thing, you' re too old and harsh-looking to be admitted here. For
another, my husband Frank would veto any vote to allow you
in.
We don't want you living here with your rebel-rousing columns and racist
ideas.

Give the old loser a break, Margaret, and don't humor him along like that.
He's Bonafide alright - bonafide borderline lol The old
fart
is dangerous. He's daft and he's looney. Did you hear he punched a woman
the other day and then bragged about doing it to defend the
honor if the country? No excuse.

What's that, Frank? My butt? C'mon, don't bother me when I'm getting
something straight on the newsgroup. Yes, I know you love the
looks
of my ass since I got the imlplants, but give it a rest for now. Later,
honey, later. (The man loves my body, what can I say? He
he.)

What was I saying, now? Oh yes! Stop impersonating me, Margaret! You're
not young and fit and tight like me. You're an old bat who
writes
liberal columns for newspapers. I'm a mover and a shaker here at the Assn.
I doubt the smallest of my four bathrooms would even fit
in your
living room. Western Estates has no openings for your type, Margaret - no
offense. We have age restrictions, ya know. Western
Estates is a
young, vibrant place and you, like your name, are old and gray. We already
had one old lady die when I turned off her A/C last
summer so
the noise of it wouldn't bother Frank when we're having sex. I'd be afraid
you'd be next.

Cheers,
Bobbi Dooley - President of the Western Estates Homeowner's Assn.

P.S. Nobody but me is allowed to hang their underwear out to dry at
Western Estates.
P.P.S. No RV's allowed in W.E. - too unsightly.
P.P.P.S. Run along now. . .
P.P.P.P.S. Yes, Frank, I'm ready for you, now. Come and get it Big
Boy!!!!!




"Margaret Gray" wrote in message
...


Lloyd,

You keep driving your motorhome as a worthy Korean war veteran should.
In other words, don't take any flack from all those unexceptional people
driving little cars and little SUV's. People like them who cannot
afford
homes with at least 4,700 square feet of floor space don't even deserve
to be licensed to drive. Who are they, anyhow, to impede the progress
of a war veteran who has places to go and things to do? The country
owes you a great debt of honor.

I was wondering, Lloyd, when are you going to be in the Western Estates
area so we can get together for a duet again. Summertaculer is coming
up fast.

Remember, Lloyd, honk real loud before you run somebody off the road.
The 'little people' deserve that much at least.

Love,
Margaret Gray


"Lloyd Bonafide" wrote in message
.net...
I'm a Korean War veteran (Navy) and let me tell you that Marsh Harbor
has
almost as much mud as Inchon Harbor. I don't know what it is with these
people's disrespect for decorated war veterans such as ourselves.

LLoyd

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Looks like you were wrong, my friend, about no mud in the Bahamas.

Read the replies to my query about mud in Marsh Harbour.

http://coconuttelegraph.net/forums/s...ead.php?t=1506

CN