"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Bob Crantz" wrote

Unions were created way before MBA degrees existed. Most MBAs I know
have
degrees in engineering or MD degrees.

But not before professional mismanagers. How many do you know, two - one
who
failed as an engineer and the other as an MD?

Outside of my class, I know about 30. 6 of them are MD/MBA the rest are
engineers/MBA. So is the MBA degree a formalization of the professional
mismanagement? Ganz has an MBA, what has he mismanaged?



Where did Jimmy Hoffa get his MBA? George Sweeney?

Trucking is a poor example - both the business and the union being run by
the mobs.

Unions exist only because of government legislation or coercion. They're a
monopoly design to limit people entering the labor pool or the people an
employer can hire. That's how they hold a gun to the head of employers. They
are a monopoly! There are other unions too - The American Medical
Association, The Postal Workers Union, Airline Pilots Union. Why is it that
any industry that is heavily unionized has high cost, inefficiency and
bloated bureaucracy? Name one that doesn't. Give me a good example.



Union members voted on contracts. So the union leaders were out to
either
screw the union or screw the company. By what you're saying, union
members,
as an aggregate, must be really ignorant.

Yes - almost as ignorant as the people who reelected Bush.

Or elected Carter or Clinton.


History is strewn with the wreckage of collectivism.

Oh? Then why is Christianity - the epitomy of socialism - enjoying a
resurgence?

Is it? Joining a religion is voluntary. I don't have to join a Church to
pray. If I want to work, I may be forced to join a Union.

I view the return to religion as a return to morality - that's what religion
teaches. The Unionized public school system is amoral. It is not in their
doctrine to teach absolute right or wrong. Since public schools are the
state and church and state must be separated, morality goes out the window.
I am aware that the Church has no monopoly on morality, but not teaching the
tenets of the Ten Commandments to avoid association with religion flushes
morality down the toilet. So what's left to teach - The Constitution - in a
public school? BWAAAHAAAHAHA! Give me a break, do you want the State
teaching about the very document that limits the powers of the State?

It's obvious you are jaded, perhaps from some previous employer, to the
point of saying irrational things. It's like this: People complain all the
time about how WalMart mistreats their workers. They go on and on about how
no one should shop there. "If no one shops WalMart, they would collapse!".
My solution is much simpler, more effective and direct. Why try to get
hundreds of thousands not to shop at WalMart. Simply get a smaller group,
the employees and potential employees not to work there. I say, "If WalMart
is so bad, don't work there." When the labor pool dries up, they will offer
better. Not to shop there only hurts the current employees. Stop blaming
others for something bad in your past. Accept your responsibility in it and
move on.

Amen!

Praise!

Glory!

Bob Crantz

"Bob Crantz" wrote
Outside of my class, I know about 30. 6 of them are MD/MBA the rest are
engineers/MBA. So is the MBA degree a formalization of the professional
mismanagement? Ganz has an MBA, what has he mismanaged?

Oh, now I understand your indignation! You are one of the mismanagers.

Dave,

When CEO's are running their business with Stock Holder returns their
top priority when it should be the Product they aren't to long for this
world. A good CEO needs to look after BOTH, and do it in a humane manner

Ole Thom

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message

Ganz has an MBA, what has he mismanaged?

Gaynzy has a Master of Boned Ass???

CM

Bob Crantz wrote:

I view the return to religion as a return to morality

What in Hell has religion got to do with morality?

About as much as Republicanism has to do with conservatism.

Rick

My final comment (I hope)

MBA's and Unions; Neither were necessary before the Industrial
Revolution!!

That was when both came into being. Owners developed Company Towns to
make life easier for their employees and themselves. This turned out to
be a double edge sword.

Some were good and many became abusive. These that were abusive gave
rise to workers forming unions.

MBA were created to teach the proper treatment of successful practises
of handling ALL the parts of the business.

Those businesses without labor problems were studied as well as
partnerships, including money raising by stock sales

Good Management is still an Art, in my opinion, and not a Science as
many think so with MBA's. It is a dynamic system to deal with dynamic
problems. People problems on both sides are seldom the same. What is
humane to one is abuse to another

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

"Dave" wrote in message

If you're the board of directors of a public company, which would you want
running your company?

That would depend on if you were producing a high end Camera or a disposable
Camera.

You get what you pay for....... if you are only interested in the profit
margin then Thom would be correct to say it is greed based.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is correct... the rest of the crap is
just that!

CM

Thom,

Help me with my myopia. Apply what you have said to this case: Microsoft.
Bill Gates is the richest man in the world. He's the CEO of Microsoft.

1. Does a union exist at Microsoft?
2. How many employees of Microsoft have become millionaires thanks to
Microsoft?
3. How many layoffs has Microsoft had?
4. How many jobs have Microsoft moved offshore?
5. How many people have become millionaires owning Microsoft stock?
6. Point out 3 examples of greed at Microsoft.

Now, do the same for Google, Dell Computers, Lincoln Welding, Toyota USA.
The scenario you portray is only made possible by the existence of an
extortionist labor base, namely Unions. Unions are the child of the
Democratic Party.

Amen!

Bob Crantz


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
In reply; Asking higher wages in an economy that is rising is not greed.
GREED is when CEO's go from 1 million a year to 5 or 6 million. Pennies
an hour doesn't even approach the greed of the ownership and top
management.

What in all that's Holy can any individual justify a 8 million dollar a
year salary. Greed is to be the only reason

When profits go down, Workers, both union and non-union loss money or
their job. Upper management take their operation and set up outside our
borders BUT not their retail outlets. They want to sell to the better
paid people in this country, without having to pay the wages within that
market place.

That is what your Republic Government has made possible.

You must correct your Myopic Vision and look at the total picture. Don't
hide behind a alias and take things out of context

Cato Policy Analysis No. 316 September 9, 1998

Policy Analysis
Freedom from Union Violence

by David Kendrick

David Kendrick is program director at the National Institute for Labor
Relations Research.

Executive Summary

Under the Supreme Court's 1973 Enmons decision, vandalism, assault, even
murder by union officials are exempt from federal anti-extortion law. As
long as the violence is aimed at obtaining property for which the union can
assert a "lawful claim"--for example, wage or benefit increases-- the
violence is deemed to be in furtherance of "legitimate" union objectives. By
the Court's peculiar logic, such violence does not count as extortion.

The result has been an epidemic of union-related violence. The National
Institute for Labor Relations Research (NILRR) has recorded 8,799 incidents
of violence from news reports since 1975. Those reports show only 258
convictions, suggesting a conviction rate of less than 3 percent. Moreover,
local law enforcement authorities often get many more reports of strike
violence than journalists can possibly cover.

Many states have taken a cue from the high Court by enacting their own
extortion laws with exemptions similar to those established by Enmons. As a
result, employees trying to support their families during a violent strike
are now denied protection against extortion under both state and federal
laws.

Because the federal government for six decades has immersed itself in labor
law under the rubric of the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), federal
action is necessary to see that violence does not accompany the exercise of
powers created by that statute. One avenue for relief is the Freedom from
Union Violence Act (FUVA), which targets all extortionate activity, even if
committed by union militants in pursuit of "legitimate" objectives.


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Neal,

Bluntly; "You're full of ****!"

This is sent to you from a non-union person; ME. I was transferred to
the NW because of my feeling for a Non-union environment. We started and
ran a non-union Refinery. ARCO

You have to be out of your "Cotton Picking Mind" to think that the
Outsourcing of our Industry is happening to escape "Greed". It is being
driven by Greed. The mentality of "Higher Profits", that is the Greed.
If you can't see that, then you are one of those people "Blind because
you refuse to See!"

Be sure that you will see unions blossoming where this greed is taking
place. Management Greed is the seed of unionism. The is what they feed
on. As they feed and grow, corruption happens.

Ole Thom

http://www.nilrr.org/9903a.htm


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Neal,

Bluntly; "You're full of ****!"

This is sent to you from a non-union person; ME. I was transferred to
the NW because of my feeling for a Non-union environment. We started and
ran a non-union Refinery. ARCO

You have to be out of your "Cotton Picking Mind" to think that the
Outsourcing of our Industry is happening to escape "Greed". It is being
driven by Greed. The mentality of "Higher Profits", that is the Greed.
If you can't see that, then you are one of those people "Blind because
you refuse to See!"

Be sure that you will see unions blossoming where this greed is taking
place. Management Greed is the seed of unionism. The is what they feed
on. As they feed and grow, corruption happens.

Ole Thom