Yes. That's what you are....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:j5tZd.31474$i6.22617@edtnps90...
GLORY.... Sail....... Homo!

CM

"JG" wrote in message
...
Basically, what you're saying is that you're incapable of backing a boat
in a narrow area. Bwahaahaaaaa.... YOU CONTINUE TO LOSE. Perhaps you
should think about shutting up for a while. Maybe you'll learn something.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:a0qZd.31203$i6.6074@edtnps90...
Yeah.. okay... but I don't see you whining about it being difficult to
"back" your vessel out of your slip if needed do I!!??

If I'm by myself and the wind is against me... I'll rope my boat out and
set the bow to the wind... then just jump in and whip the line off the
bollard or cleat as I put the engine into gear.

When I didn't have an engine... I rowed the damn thing out towing it
with my punt! I clenched the bowline in my teeth!!!..... and it's a 6
ton full keel 30 footer!!!

Of course anyone with a Hunter is retarded anyway! Crap.. you could tow
that thing with a pedal boat! Load crew after you back from the slip???
What's with that!!??

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I prefer to dock stern in so if the wind is favorable I can sail out.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:hMpZd.31141$i6.4870@edtnps90...
You back in a power boat you Yankee Doodle Dandy..... you sail in a
sailboat!

Anyone that has a problem backing out of a slip needs to seriously
reassess
their skill-set.... especially if it involves a fin keeler.

To prove my point you only need to read Gaynzy's reply... he prefers
backing
in !!!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Wrong! you back-woods backwards Canadjun.

You back out a car ....you back in a boat.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:XWoZd.30970$i6.30104@edtnps90...
You back in a car... you back out a boat.

CM

"rgnmstr" wrote in message
oups.com...
Parking the boat stern first will make pulling out with more
control in
any condition much easier plus it will sure make boarding
easier.

Wooooooo.... Stalker!

CM

"JG" wrote in message
...
Mooron tries it every where and knows what happens... all the buff guys
want some, but he's dedicated to his chickens.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:q4tZd.31472$i6.8285@edtnps90...
You wouldn't try that around Gaynzy's marina I bet!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I don't have a full length finger pier. It's just plain easier for
boarding, loading/unloading. Besides, in the Summer I sleep naked with
the hatch open, so it's more fun being stern in.

Scotty


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:amqZd.31284$i6.22143@edtnps90...
Actually ... backing in is much more difficult with a sailboat than
backing
out.

Well it is with a Crab Crusher like mine anyway......

I don't personally like being stern to a dock on the finger pier.
Rubber
neckers and all plus there is no advantage. If you can sail out by
backing
in then okay... but if you motor out after backing in ... what's the
point?
It's 40 feet of distance max! Most likely it's only 20 feet of
reverse. You
can man handle even a 40 footer that distance by yourself. If the
dock
requires motoring out I load everyone and everything prior to
slipping the
dock lines.... then I shove her to the end of the slip.... line
her up...
step aboard... and put it in gear.

Good Grief... it's not rocket science! This isn't the QE2... it's a
30 ft
sailboat... they have dinghies that big.

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Never really thought about it. Shouldn't be any more difficult
than
backing in, should it?

Scotty


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:a0qZd.31203$i6.6074@edtnps90...
Yeah.. okay... but I don't see you whining about it being
difficult
to
"back" your vessel out of your slip if needed do I!!??

If I'm by myself and the wind is against me... I'll rope my boat
out
and set
the bow to the wind... then just jump in and whip the line off
the
bollard
or cleat as I put the engine into gear.

When I didn't have an engine... I rowed the damn thing out towing
it
with my
punt! I clenched the bowline in my teeth!!!..... and it's a 6
ton
full
keel 30 footer!!!

Of course anyone with a Hunter is retarded anyway! Crap.. you
could
tow that
thing with a pedal boat! Load crew after you back from the
slip???
What's
with that!!??

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I prefer to dock stern in so if the wind is favorable I can sail
out.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:hMpZd.31141$i6.4870@edtnps90...
You back in a power boat you Yankee Doodle Dandy..... you
sail
in a
sailboat!

Anyone that has a problem backing out of a slip needs to
seriously
reassess
their skill-set.... especially if it involves a fin keeler.

To prove my point you only need to read Gaynzy's reply... he
prefers
backing
in !!!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Wrong! you back-woods backwards Canadjun.

You back out a car ....you back in a boat.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:XWoZd.30970$i6.30104@edtnps90...
You back in a car... you back out a boat.

CM

"rgnmstr" wrote in message

oups.com...
Parking the boat stern first will make pulling out with
more
control in
any condition much easier plus it will sure make boarding
easier.

There already have been some good comments to your situation, but one more
thing I would like to add:

Remember that you don't have to KEEP your boat in reverse to travel
backwards. It is not like a car. Once momentum has been achieved, put the
tranny in neutral, thereby minimizing the effect of prop walk (assuming that
prop walk is working against you). I know that is a simple point, but it
may help.

L

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com
"John Lechmanik" wrote in message
...
Although I'm a little experienced at sailing, I'm still learning a lot of
the little incidental things. Such as pulling out of a dock. We have a
Hunter 310 (a little "beamy" and our slip is narrow) that is moored in the
SF Bay area. We have less than 2 feet of total clearance between the boat
and the dock at the widest point. Our slip is about 1/2 way down the
berths with slips on both sides of the passageway. The passageway is
probably 40 - 50 feet wide. We have an "upwind berth" which faces to the
south (normal summer wind direction).

The Marina is surrounded by homes and the wind is usually blocked pretty
well by the wind from the south by other rows of sailboats. However the
wind from the east, west, and north are not that blocked. To make things
more interesting our exit from the slip is to the east, which means I have
to back out of the slip to the right. The boat pulls to port when in
reverse.

Here is the fun part. During this time of the year, the wind comes from a
variety of directions. When the wind comes from the east (port side of
the boat when in the slip) it's a challenge getting out of the slip. The
first time I backed out under these conditions I was just out of the slip,
and turning the boat to starboard when the wind pushed the bow back
around. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the boat turned into the
wind and was being pushed by the wind down the marina. I finally spotted
an open slip and pulled in. We ran a line off the bow and I backed out
again, but this time had the bow held to the dock. I managed to get the
boat turned into the wind, picked up my partner (2 man crew that day) and
sailed off.

A few days ago, we had the east winds again, but this time with a little
bit of north. After reading up, I tried to run a line off the starboard
stern to pull the stern around as I backed out. This SEEMED to be working
until I tried to pull next to the slip to pick up my partner, and the
north effect of the wind started pushing my starboard into the parked
boats. We managed to finally get some forward momentum and move foward
while fending off the boats. I couldn't pick up my partner and had to
pull around to the downwind side of the berths and pick her up there. The
wind was only about 3 - 4 kts.

I know it's been a long explaination, but now I'm wondering how to pull
out under these conditions and pick up my crew before leaving.

Any suggestions???


--
John Lechmanik

To replay directly, correct the address and remove the spam filter.

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Actually ... backing in is much more difficult with a sailboat than backing
out.


I dunno, it depends on conditions and on how picky you are. If there's a
heavy cross-wind one time, and calm the next, obviously that's going to
make more difference than whether you're going in or out.


Well it is with a Crab Crusher like mine anyway......

I don't personally like being stern to a dock on the finger pier. Rubber
neckers and all plus there is no advantage.

With a double ender, it's probably not easier to get on or off by the stern.

... If you can sail out by backing
in then okay... but if you motor out after backing in ... what's the point?
It's 40 feet of distance max! Most likely it's only 20 feet of reverse. You
can man handle even a 40 footer that distance by yourself. If the dock
requires motoring out I load everyone and everything prior to slipping the
dock lines.... then I shove her to the end of the slip.... line her up...
step aboard... and put it in gear.


If the boat moves when you push it, it's not a crab crusher. Maybe you
mean a sustained shove? I can move our tugboat by hand, but it takes a
bit of grunt & some patience.

Full keel boats are a bit harder to maneuver.

Good Grief... it's not rocket science! This isn't the QE2... it's a 30 ft
sailboat... they have dinghies that big.


True.

Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket
science, in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some
precautions are in order. And people get awfully funny about stringing
lines across fairways inside the marina. I thought of training our old
dog to take a spring line in his teeth, swim it out & put a wrap on a
piling, then bring it back when the boat was clear. Don't know if my
wife would have agreed to let her baby do that, though.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Capt. Mooron wrote:
Actually ... backing in is much more difficult with a sailboat than
backing
out.


I dunno, it depends on conditions and on how picky you are. If
there's a
heavy cross-wind one time, and calm the next, obviously that's going
to
make more difference than whether you're going in or out.


Well it is with a Crab Crusher like mine anyway......

I don't personally like being stern to a dock on the finger pier.
Rubber
neckers and all plus there is no advantage.


Same here. Even with a center cockpit I like to always bow in, Just
easier getting on and off, more privacy and most slips shallow close to
land so sinking in the mud up past the props is something I try to
avoid.




With a double ender, it's probably not easier to get on or off by the
stern.

... If you can sail out by backing
in then okay... but if you motor out after backing in ... what's
the point?
It's 40 feet of distance max! Most likely it's only 20 feet of
reverse. You
can man handle even a 40 footer that distance by yourself. If the
dock
requires motoring out I load everyone and everything prior to
slipping the
dock lines.... then I shove her to the end of the slip.... line
her up...
step aboard... and put it in gear.


If the boat moves when you push it, it's not a crab crusher. Maybe
you
mean a sustained shove? I can move our tugboat by hand, but it takes
a
bit of grunt & some patience.

I have a crab crusher I can push mine out, but why? I have a LH wheel
and back out with ease. Load everything single up. Push 1 ft out put
her in gear and it adious. To pull mine out and line up by hand would
be a nice workout.


Full keel boats are a bit harder to maneuver.

Not mine, I have a barn door size rudder.




Good Grief... it's not rocket science! This isn't the QE2... it's a
30 ft
sailboat... they have dinghies that big.


True.

Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket
science, in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some
precautions are in order. And people get awfully funny about
stringing
lines across fairways inside the marina. I thought of training our
old
dog to take a spring line in his teeth, swim it out & put a wrap on a

piling, then bring it back when the boat was clear. Don't know if my
wife would have agreed to let her baby do that, though.



Anyone who needs to warp or spring under good weather condition leaving
the average slip just need more practice IMO. Next you will be
suggesting bow thrusters!

Joe

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I thought of training my old wife to take a spring line in her teeth, swim
it out & put a wrap on a piling, then bring it back when the boat was
clear. Don't know if my dog would have agreed to let our meal ticket do
that, though.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. Mooron wrote:
Actually ... backing in is much more difficult with a sailboat than
backing out.


I dunno, it depends on conditions and on how picky you are. If there's a
heavy cross-wind one time, and calm the next, obviously that's going to
make more difference than whether you're going in or out.


Well it is with a Crab Crusher like mine anyway......

I don't personally like being stern to a dock on the finger pier. Rubber
neckers and all plus there is no advantage.

With a double ender, it's probably not easier to get on or off by the
stern.

... If you can sail out by backing in then okay... but if you motor out
after backing in ... what's the point? It's 40 feet of distance max! Most
likely it's only 20 feet of reverse. You can man handle even a 40 footer
that distance by yourself. If the dock requires motoring out I load
everyone and everything prior to slipping the dock lines.... then I shove
her to the end of the slip.... line her up... step aboard... and put
it in gear.


If the boat moves when you push it, it's not a crab crusher. Maybe you
mean a sustained shove? I can move our tugboat by hand, but it takes a bit
of grunt & some patience.

Full keel boats are a bit harder to maneuver.

Good Grief... it's not rocket science! This isn't the QE2... it's a 30 ft
sailboat... they have dinghies that big.


True.

Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket science,
in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some precautions are in
order. And people get awfully funny about stringing lines across fairways
inside the marina. I thought of training our old dog to take a spring line
in his teeth, swim it out & put a wrap on a piling, then bring it back
when the boat was clear. Don't know if my wife would have agreed to let
her baby do that, though.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"JG" wrote ...
Mooron tries it every where and knows what happens... all us gay
guys want
some, but he's dedicated to his chickens.


Oiy!

Knot without setting a few rat traps in the cockpit.

SV

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:q4tZd.31472$i6.8285@edtnps90...
You wouldn't try that around Gaynzy's marina I bet!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I don't have a full length finger pier. It's just plain easier for
boarding, loading/unloading. Besides, in the Summer I sleep naked
with
the hatch open, so it's more fun being stern in.

Scotty


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:amqZd.31284$i6.22143@edtnps90...
Actually ... backing in is much more difficult with a sailboat
than
backing
out.

Well it is with a Crab Crusher like mine anyway......

I don't personally like being stern to a dock on the finger pier.
Rubber
neckers and all plus there is no advantage. If you can sail out
by
backing
in then okay... but if you motor out after backing in ... what's
the
point?
It's 40 feet of distance max! Most likely it's only 20 feet of
reverse. You
can man handle even a 40 footer that distance by yourself. If the
dock
requires motoring out I load everyone and everything prior to
slipping the
dock lines.... then I shove her to the end of the slip....
line
her up...
step aboard... and put it in gear.

Good Grief... it's not rocket science! This isn't the QE2... it's
a
30 ft
sailboat... they have dinghies that big.

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Never really thought about it. Shouldn't be any more difficult
than
backing in, should it?

Scotty


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:a0qZd.31203$i6.6074@edtnps90...
Yeah.. okay... but I don't see you whining about it being
difficult
to
"back" your vessel out of your slip if needed do I!!??

If I'm by myself and the wind is against me... I'll rope my
boat
out
and set
the bow to the wind... then just jump in and whip the line off
the
bollard
or cleat as I put the engine into gear.

When I didn't have an engine... I rowed the damn thing out
towing
it
with my
punt! I clenched the bowline in my teeth!!!..... and it's a
6
ton
full
keel 30 footer!!!

Of course anyone with a Hunter is retarded anyway! Crap.. you
could
tow that
thing with a pedal boat! Load crew after you back from the
slip???
What's
with that!!??

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I prefer to dock stern in so if the wind is favorable I can
sail
out.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:hMpZd.31141$i6.4870@edtnps90...
You back in a power boat you Yankee Doodle Dandy..... you
sail
in a
sailboat!

Anyone that has a problem backing out of a slip needs to
seriously
reassess
their skill-set.... especially if it involves a fin
keeler.

To prove my point you only need to read Gaynzy's reply...
he
prefers
backing
in !!!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Wrong! you back-woods backwards Canadjun.

You back out a car ....you back in a boat.

SV


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in
message
news:XWoZd.30970$i6.30104@edtnps90...
You back in a car... you back out a boat.

CM

"rgnmstr" wrote in message

oups.com...
Parking the boat stern first will make pulling out
with
more
control in
any condition much easier plus it will sure make
boarding
easier.

"DSK" wrote in

With a double endear, it's probably not easier to get on or off by
the stern.


Well yeah, but I thought we were discussing normal boats.

"Joe" wrote
Same here. Even with a center cockpit I like to always bow in, Just
easier getting on and off,


How so?


more privacy and most slips shallow close to
land so sinking in the mud up past the props is something I try to
avoid.


A slip near the end of the dock negates this.



Scotty

Scott Vernon wrote:
"Joe" wrote
Same here. Even with a center cockpit I like to always bow in, Just
easier getting on and off,


How so?

The Capt. Chair is on the stbd side and in the way when boarding. So
port side to bow in is the best for me. And I have a huge amount of
Dock to port as well, and a finger pier to stbd. It has more to do with
dock and boat than a general rule.


more privacy and most slips shallow close to
land so sinking in the mud up past the props is something I try to
avoid.


A slip near the end of the dock negates this.


Me two, but my bow pulpit is still 8 inches over the dock at the bow.
40 ft slip.

Joe


Scotty

Lonny Bruce wrote:
I thought of training my old wife

I don't have an "old wife" or an ex wife. I chose a good woman and treat
her properly. Instead of behaving like a grammar school smart aleck,
maybe you could learn something.

DSK

DSK wrote: Instead of behaving like a grammar school smart aleck,
maybe you could learn something.


Oh yeah? Well, I am rubber and you are glue, and what you say bounces off
me and sticks to you!

L

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com
"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lonny Bruce wrote:
I thought of training my old wife

I don't have an "old wife" or an ex wife. I chose a good woman and treat
her properly. Instead of behaving like a grammar school smart aleck, maybe
you could learn something.

DSK

Lonny Bruce wrote:
Oh yeah? Well, I am rubber and you are glue, and what you say bounces off
me and sticks to you!


I'm sure your next ex-wife finds such behavior charming.

DSK

Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket
science, in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some
precautions are in order. And people get awfully funny about
stringing
lines across fairways inside the marina.

Joe wrote:
Anyone who needs to warp or spring under good weather condition leaving
the average slip just need more practice IMO. Next you will be
suggesting bow thrusters!


Nothing wrong with having a bow thruster, as long as you don't use it as
a crutch or an excuse to not learn boat handling.

Nothing wrong with using springs or warps either, if the conditions
warrant it. For example, there could be just barely enough wind blowing
onto the dock that if you use a spring to put the boat into the wind, it
looks like a piece of cake, but if you try to just bull it away from the
pier, you're flirting with swapping gelcoat. The trick is to know when
and do it so that it looks easy. So what if the dockside onlookers all
scoff and say 'he shouldn't have done that, look how easy it was.'

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

If the boat moves when you push it, it's not a crab crusher. Maybe you
mean a sustained shove? I can move our tugboat by hand, but it takes a bit
of grunt & some patience.


It depends entirely on the conditions at hand..... but you've seen the
specs on Overproof and it is most certainly in the Crab Crusher quadrant.
With a constant firm push ( or sustained shove as you put it) ..... I can
back it to the end of a finger pier and maneuver it to point in the general
direction required prior to stepping aboard and engaging the engine. This is
what I routinly do when departing a slip. I rarely use tha auxilliary to
back out of a slip since the vessel is relucant to heed the tiller... even
with manipulation of the throttle/gear.

Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket science,
in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some precautions are in
order. And people get awfully funny about stringing lines across fairways
inside the marina. I thought of training our old dog to take a spring line
in his teeth, swim it out & put a wrap on a piling, then bring it back
when the boat was clear. Don't know if my wife would have agreed to let
her baby do that, though.

I can't see a circumstance that would require spanning a fairway to warp a
vessel out of a slip and setting the bow to the wind. I use a bow and stern
spring. ...when backing the vessel I place pull to the bow spring and use
the stern spring to control direction. Once the vessel has reached the point
amidships to the end of the finger pier or slip... I simply pull in on the
stern spring while fending off the vessel. Once momentum is established I
step aboard and put the vessel into gear. Both spring bitter ends are in the
cockpit and can be removed and stowed when clear of the marina.

I'm not saying this should or could be done with every vessel, nor am I
recommending it's use to anyone else... it's simply what works for me.

People who have difficulty docking and departing from a slip should
seriously consider the alternative of a mooring and use of the community
dock to load and unload quests and supplies as these locations are often
much easier to approach and depart.

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
It depends entirely on the conditions at hand..... but you've seen the
specs on Overproof and it is most certainly in the Crab Crusher quadrant.
With a constant firm push ( or sustained shove as you put it) ..... I can
back it to the end of a finger pier and maneuver it to point in the general
direction required prior to stepping aboard and engaging the engine.

The boat can be pivoted easier by hand (or line) than by engine &
rudder... you don't even have to apply torque, although I've seen people
trying to twist the tops off pilings as though they were screw-top
bottles... just push at either end, or for that matter along any axis
not through the boat's CLR.

Another thing to bear in mind, even in calm conditions don't tempt fate
by putting a part of your body between the boat & any solid object.


... This is
what I routinly do when departing a slip. I rarely use tha auxilliary to
back out of a slip since the vessel is relucant to heed the tiller... even
with manipulation of the throttle/gear.


"Reluctant to heed the tiller" is not a good characteristic for a
cruising boat IMHO.


Another good point you mentioned earlier was warping. Not rocket science,
in fact to me it seems quite obvious... although some precautions are in
order. And people get awfully funny about stringing lines across fairways
inside the marina.


Capt. Mooron wrote:
I can't see a circumstance that would require spanning a fairway to warp a
vessel out of a slip and setting the bow to the wind.

I can. Easily. It's happened to us a couple of times. When space is too
tight to get the bow into the wind, and there is no way to safely let
the bow go downwind & back out, your options are to either set up a warp
or wait until conditions change.



People who have difficulty docking and departing from a slip should
seriously consider the alternative of a mooring and use of the community
dock to load and unload quests and supplies as these locations are often
much easier to approach and depart.


Or practice until they can do it well.

Nobody was born knowing how to maneuver a heavy boat. We all have to
learn. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we all have more to learn...
some more than others, of course ;)

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Another thing to bear in mind, even in calm conditions don't tempt fate by
putting a part of your body between the boat & any solid object.

Agreed... that is why we have crew.

"Reluctant to heed the tiller" is not a good characteristic for a cruising
boat IMHO.

Under power in reverse only... due entirely because I'm swinging an
undersized screw. A three bladed 13" with a #19. This is a restriction
imposed by design of the prop well and overpowered auxilliary. The walk to
starboard is truely awesome to behold. Under sail she heeds the tiller very
well.... even backing under the main... which is why I prefer to sail to
the dock.


I can. Easily. It's happened to us a couple of times. When space is too
tight to get the bow into the wind, and there is no way to safely let the
bow go downwind & back out, your options are to either set up a warp or
wait until conditions change.

In those conditions I utilize my 3 foot bowsprit as a hold. Due to the
momentum of the vessel I can push off and step aboard the bowsprit prior to
making my way back to the cockpit as the vessel begins to swing through the
wind. I can easily catch it as the bow points into the wind and apply
throttle.

Or practice until they can do it well.

Yes.. unfortunatly for most it seems to interfere with the use of the vessel
for pleasure... then they scratch their heads when they find themselves in a
situation requireing precise manuervering.

Nobody was born knowing how to maneuver a heavy boat. We all have to
learn. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we all have more to learn... some
more than others, of course ;)

Everyone should sail a season with no auxiliary..... that's when your
learning curve goes up exponentially.

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
When I operated my vessel with no auxiliary.... I found that the use of the
anchor as a kedge was one of the most beneficial methods to leave a dock.
You simply row the anchor out and pull the vessel to it..... no warps, no
muss, no fuss.

I dunno, I'd call kedging a type of warping, but that's a technicality.

... Mind you a crewmember does come in handy unless you are
prepared to run the anchor rode back to the cockpit winch to facilitate
retrieval after raising sail.

In an old cruising book I came upon the following quote, supposedly from
a retired Royal Navy captain: "Seamanship is the art of moving
impossibly heavy weights."

... If you think out your situation you can come
up with an effective method to achieve your goals.


Look, we're going to have to argue about something here or just end this
thread right here.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Look, we're going to have to argue about something here or just end this
thread right here.

Ha Ha ha.... As soon as you're wrong... I'll be there for you Doug... to set
you on the right path as usual!

CM

DSK wrote:

I dunno, I'd call kedging a type of warping, but that's a
technicality.

DSK

Kedging is not a type or warping.

Joe

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

When I operated my vessel with no auxiliary.... I found that the
use of the
anchor as a kedge was one of the most beneficial methods to leave a
dock.
You simply row the anchor out and pull the vessel to it..... no
warps, no
muss, no fuss. Mind you a crewmember does come in handy unless you
are
prepared to run the anchor rode back to the cockpit winch to
facilitate
retrieval after raising sail. If you think out your situation you
can come
up with an effective method to achieve your goals.

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary work, to me.

Scotty

"DSK" wrote

Or practice until they can do it well.

Nobody was born knowing how to maneuver a heavy boat. We all have to
learn. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we all have more to learn...
some more than others, of course ;)

Now Doug, don't be too hard on Mooron, after all, he doesn't get to
sail too much anymore.

SBV

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary work, to me.

Sail without using your auxiliary for one season and get back to me!

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote

Or practice until they can do it well.

Nobody was born knowing how to maneuver a heavy boat. We all have to
learn. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we all have more to learn...
some more than others, of course ;)

Now Doug, don't be too hard on Mooron, after all, he doesn't get to
sail too much anymore.

Next thing you know the pair of you will try telling me how a boom vang can
support a greater payload on the boom than a topping lift!

CM

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:PKJZd.37137$ZO2.14336@edtnps84...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote

Or practice until they can do it well.

Nobody was born knowing how to maneuver a heavy boat. We all have
to
learn. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we all have more to
learn...
some more than others, of course ;)

Now Doug, don't be too hard on Mooron, after all, he doesn't get
to
sail too much anymore.

Next thing you know the pair of you will try telling me how a boom
vang can
support a greater payload on the boom than a topping lift!


you want me to post those links again?

SV

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I'll buy ya two, since that cheapskate Irishman wouldn't.

Two of your's would contain less alcohol than the one that I wouldn't buy!

Your beer is absolute rubbish. What the hell is the point in being a
superpower, if you have such crap beer?





Regards


Donal
--

"Seahag" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote:

"Scott Vernon" wrote:

"Donal" wrote ...

For example, you don't know how far you need to push the brake pedal
to slow
your auto down.... your foot knows. If you don't believe me try
using your
left foot on the brake - and see what happens! Make sure that you
aren't
going too fast when you try this.

Your foot has it's own brain?

Maybe my foot is brighter than your brain.


Mine has to send a signal to the brain
in my head.

Mine doesn't. Therefore my foot is definitely brighter than your brain.

I guess your foot brain is quicker on the stops.

My foot doesn't have a brain. I bet that your's does!


Ah ha hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You two owe me a beer!

I've sent a pint of Guinness in the post. It should reach you next
Tuesday!

You are not allowed to drink it until you put up your mast.


Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I'll buy ya two, since that cheapskate Irishman wouldn't.

Two of your's would contain less alcohol than the one that I wouldn't
buy!

Your beer is absolute rubbish. What the hell is the point in being a
superpower, if you have such crap beer?

They can invade any country that has good beer and take what they want....
give thanks all they want right now is Iraqi Oil!

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
you want me to post those links again?

Oh Yeah!! I'll repost my links then!

CM

"Donal" wrote in message
...
You are not allowed to drink it until you put up your mast.

just one?

"Donal" wrote
I'll buy ya two, since that cheapskate Irishman wouldn't.

Two of your's would contain less alcohol than the one that I
wouldn't buy!

Your beer is absolute rubbish. What the hell is the point in being
a
superpower, if you have such crap beer?

Beer? Donut, I'm a sailor. When I *sail* down to Haggy's it's with a
bottle of rum.

You are so uncouth.

Scotty

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message
...
You are not allowed to drink it until you put up your mast.

just one?

He's a Brit in Irish clothing.... it only takes one beer for Donal to get
drunk!

CM

I do believe that Hunter has a "Scoop Stern" Stern loading would be
easier

Ole Thom

Woooo... you're stupid.

In article PmtZd.31483$i6.22125@edtnps90,
Capt. Mooron wrote:
Wooooooo.... Stalker!

CM

"JG" wrote in message
...
Mooron tries it every where and knows what happens... all the buff guys
want some, but he's dedicated to his chickens.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

What you are missing is windage aft to counteract your bow windage at low revs and reduced rudder effect.

Any extra windage abaft the centre of effort will help. One surprisingly efficient trick is to set a small sail (an old dinghy jib would do) on the backstay when you want to back in the conditions you describe. You can use the topping lift if you have a rigid boom strut or any other spare halyard - set doesn't matter.

Let it flap until you want to turn, then haul it to weather. It will spin you round into the wind quite easily and you have perfect control according to the amount of weight you put on the sheet (you only need one) When you want to stop turning, let fly and drop the sail at your leisure. A little practice in open water helps, as this is a powerful way to turn the boat. Give it a try.

"Donal" wrote:

"Seahag" wrote :

Ah ha hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You two owe me a beer!

I've sent a pint of Guinness in the post. It should reach you next
Tuesday!

You are not allowed to drink it until you put up your mast.

We were gonna do our taxes this weekend, but I guess we'll just have to put
the sticks up instead!

Seahag

Donal wrote:

I've sent a pint of Guinness in the post. It should reach you next
Tuesday!

You are not allowed to drink it until you put up your mast.



Good for you Donal. Perhaps you can set an example to some here that
feel no honor is lost in not paying off on his bets.


Joe




Regards


Donal
--

Seahag wrote:



We were gonna do our taxes this weekend, but I guess we'll just have to put
the sticks up instead!

Holy Smokes! Max was right, the world has gone of its' axis! Imagine Haggie with spars!


Cheers
Marty

Yeah well the idea has merit... I use a triangular piece of blue poly tarp
.... cut, sewn and grommeted to fit on the split of my backstay while at the
mooring at times. Keeps tension on the mooring lines, keeps the boat from
dancing, and offers a bit of privacy as well. I only use it when the wind
is shifty since my boat isn't prone to swing much on a mooring anyway.

Never entered my mind to use it to keep the bow to the wind under
manuever... but I'll try it this year.

CM


"Silver" wrote in message
...

What you are missing is windage aft to counteract your bow windage at
low revs and reduced rudder effect.

Any extra windage abaft the centre of effort will help. One
surprisingly efficient trick is to set a small sail (an old dinghy jib
would do) on the backstay when you want to back in the conditions you
describe. You can use the topping lift if you have a rigid boom strut
or any other spare halyard - set doesn't matter.

Let it flap until you want to turn, then haul it to weather. It will
spin you round into the wind quite easily and you have perfect control
according to the amount of weight you put on the sheet (you only need
one) When you want to stop turning, let fly and drop the sail at your
leisure. A little practice in open water helps, as this is a powerful
way to turn the boat. Give it a try.


--
Silver