US didn't torture anyone
 

Yeh, there's a great article about it in Newsweek. It would be funny except
that it's so sad.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OzOne wrote in message ...


They let someone else do it for them!!


CIA 'jets suspects overseas'
From correspondents in Washington
March 07, 2005
From: Agence France-Presse


THE CIA uses a secret jet to ferry terror suspects for interrogation
to countries known to use torture, according to a US report aired
today.
CBS television's 60 Minutes program videotaped the Boeing 737 on a
runway at Glasgow Airport in Scotland, saying it was able to trace it
through a series of companies and executives that apparently exist
only on paper.

It said the plane had made at least 600 flights to 40 countries, all
after the September 11 attacks, including 30 trips to Jordan, 19 to
Afghanistan, 17 to Morocco and 16 to Iraq.

The plane also went to Egypt, Libya and Guantanamo Bay, according to
the report.
Advertisement:

The aircraft is part of the Central Intelligence Agency's so-called
"rendition" program, in which suspects are sent to foreign governments
for interrogation.

The agency has not formally acknowledged the program's existence.

A German national, which CBS identified as Khalid El-Masri, told a
reporter he was on vacation in Macedonia when he was arrested by
police and held in Macedonia for three weeks and then brought to the
airport, beaten by masked men, drugged and put aboard the 737.

The plane left Skopje, Macedonia, and went to Baghdad and then Kabul,
with Mr El-Masri saying he awoke in a jail cell where his captors
said, "You're in a country without laws and no one knows where you
are," CBS News quoted the former detainee as saying.

"It was very clear to me that he meant I could stay in my cell for 20
years or be buried somewhere," Mr El-Masri said.

He added his fellow prisoners in the American-run jail were Saudi
Arabians, Tanzanians, a Yemeni and a Pakistani who had lived in the
US.

Mr El-Masri said he had been in solitary confinement for five months
and then released without an explanation.

According to the report, the jet also made 10 trips to Uzbekistan,
where former British ambassador Craig Murray said the jet's nominal
owner, Premier Executive Transport Services, kept a small staff at the
airport in Tashkent.

Murray said Uzbek interrogators use unusually cruel methods, including
"techniques of drowning and suffocation, rape ... and also the
insertion of limbs in boiling liquid."

Murray said he had complained to his superiors that information was
being obtained by torture and sent his deputy to the CIA station chief
to inquire about the practice.

"The CIA definitely knows," he told the program, adding his deputy had
confirmed that evidence "probably was obtained under torture but the
CIA didn't see that as a problem".

He was ordered to return to London four months ago and has since left
government service, CBS News said.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

OzOne wrote in message ...


They let someone else do it for them!!

THE CIA uses a secret jet to ferry terror suspects for interrogation
snip
Murray said Uzbek interrogators use unusually cruel methods, including
"techniques of drowning and suffocation, rape ... and also the
insertion of limbs in boiling liquid."

Isn't it funny that the usual rednecks(Joe, Neal and Bart) never answer
posts like this? It's as if they think that the evidence will go away if
they ignore it.




Regards


Donal
--

Lanod,

The simple un-altered truth is we send known terrorist and murderers
captured to contries that have the understanding of the language and
culture of the people captured. Our allies are much more attune the the
special needs and cultures of the captured. To send everyone to gitmo
would overtax our resources.

Thank you for your understanding.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Lanod,

The simple un-altered truth is we send known terrorist and murderers
captured to contries that have the understanding of the language and
culture of the people captured.

Read... send illegaly detained, ethnically profiled citizens from any
country to be tortured without chance for trial or proof of guilt despite
objections from their country of origin.

Our allies are much more attune the the
special needs and cultures of the captured.

Read.. are not encumbered by Human Rights violations and are well paid to
extract whatever confession required regardless of the truth, merit or
value.

To send everyone to gitmo
would overtax our resources.

Read... cannot undertake that type of torture under the scrutiny of the US
citizens.


Thank you for your understanding.

Read.... **** You, we'll do as we please and if it's acting like Nazi's or
Japs torturing captured civilians.. so what.. we're two faced and proud of
it.


Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Lanod,

The simple un-altered truth is we send known terrorist and murderers
captured to contries that have the understanding of the language and
culture of the people captured. Our allies are much more attune the the
special needs and cultures of the captured. To send everyone to gitmo
would overtax our resources.

Thank you for your understanding.

Joe

Love your factual explaination .... couldn't have spun it better myself!

Thats your brainwashed spin Mooron.

Would you send an arab speaking and raised person to be questioned in
Mexico?

Many of the captured you whine for are wanted for previous crimes in
the countrys that they are being sent to.

Again the insurgents are using the press in a very efficient way to
further their agenda and shamelessly you follow in step like a bull
with a ring in his nose.

If someone was mis-treated while under the control of another country,
then shouldent you be addressing that country?

Shouldent these country hold accountable the abusers just like the USA
did with the offenders of Abu Graibe?

Mooron instead of always hitching your wagon to the hate the USA Ass
team, you need to look at the whole picture? This is a global effort
to fight terrorist, not just a USA effort.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message

Mooron instead of always hitching your wagon to the hate the USA Ass
team, you need to look at the whole picture? This is a global effort
to fight terrorist, not just a USA effort.

I don't hate anyone.... I like the USA... it's just amusing to hear your
"spin" on the issues. It's not a global effort at all..... matter of fact
it's only countries being attacked by "terrorists" that have a war on their
hands. Generally those countries have managed to alienate & otherwise
antagonize a sub-group which strike using available strategy. Very few
nations have won a battle against terrorist tactics. It's goal is to
destabilize, cause panic, make headlines, revoke liberties and force the
government to implement strict measures to control the population. Sound
familiar?

The case in point being...... the taking citizens of Canada and Australia,
apprehended while enroute to other destinations through US airports,
selected upon ethnic guidelines and deporting them from the USA to Syria for
interrogation and torture. The abducted are jailed and questioned using
methods not condoned in your country. This to me is two faced.

I don't understand why this is of concern to you.... after all you are the
USA... the most powerful nation on the world today. Why allow the truth to
blind you of your ambitions?

The path to Hell.... is paved with good intentions Joe! The USA is in dire
need of some soul searching and implementation of a plan that will defuse
the current dilemma. It's obvious what you are currently doing is not only
ineffective.... but it's allowing your enemy to dictate the battlefield,
objectives and the weapons... to their advantage.

Have no fear... I will remain constantly vigilant and be there to point out
the obvious to you in your time of need.

CM

OzOne wrote in message

Jesus Mooron, any more of that and you'll be writing definitive books!

You found the post a tad too Jaxxian for your tastes???.....

CM

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:28:18 -0000, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:


Isn't it funny that the usual rednecks(Joe, Neal and Bart) never answer
posts like this? It's as if they think that the evidence will go away if
they ignore it.


They'll answer, but the Govt line is too deeply embedded.


Well, I take my hat off to Joe! He was man enough to defend his position.

Neal and Bart were manly enough to keep quiet when they knew that they were
wrong. It takes enormous courage to risk being seen as a coward!!


Regards


Donal
--

Mooron instead of always hitching your wagon to the hate the USA Ass
team, you need to look at the whole picture? This is a global effort

to fight terrorist, not just a USA effort.


I don't hate anyone.... I like the USA... it's just amusing to hear
your
"spin" on the issues. It's not a global effort at all..... matter of
fact
it's only countries being attacked by "terrorists" that have a war on
their
hands.

Yeah thats what us Americans said when Hitler started his ****. We
smartened up...whats your excuse?


Generally those countries have managed to alienate & otherwise
antagonize a sub-group which strike using available strategy.

Yes they murder like cowards.....Yet we are to afford them the same
treatment an honorable member of an armed forces deserves.


Very few
nations have won a battle against terrorist tactics.

Count us in as one of the few..the proud..

It's goal is to
destabilize, cause panic, make headlines,

Yes make headline that you and Donal latch onto hook line and sinker


revoke liberties and force the
government to implement strict measures to control the population.

In WW11 I heard people couldent even go out and buy a set of tires.
They rationed Gasoline, people grew victory gardens. In other words we
have a history of suffering to ensure the American way of life. Freedom
is not free, it is only taken and held by those brave enough to die for
it.


Sound
familiar?

Oh yes

The case in point being...... the taking citizens of Canada and
Australia,
apprehended while enroute to other destinations through US airports,
selected upon ethnic guidelines and deporting them from the USA to
Syria for
interrogation and torture.

Talk to Syria if they were tortured. If that did indeed happen Mooron
then the people involved should be punished. However if they were
wanted in Syria and we have an extridiction agreement then by law we
were required to send them to Syria.

The abducted are jailed and questioned using
methods not condoned in your country. This to me is two faced.


That the pro-terrorists spin on things I'm sure


I don't understand why this is of concern to you.... after all you are
the
USA... the most powerful nation on the world today. Why allow the truth
to
blind you of your ambitions?

Why allow truth to blind you of the fact this is a global effort to
capture track down anyone who would try to pull another 911 attack.
Will you still be moaning when and if we get hit again ?


The path to Hell.... is paved with good intentions Joe!

Good intention like sitting back and not doing anything type of
intentions?

The USA is in dire
need of some soul searching and implementation of a plan that will
defuse
the current dilemma.

We have a plan


It's obvious what you are currently doing is not only
ineffective.... but it's allowing your enemy to dictate the
battlefield,
objectives and the weapons... to their advantage.

**** they are dying a 1000 to 1 of us...That seems to be in our
advantage Mooron.


Have no fear... I will remain constantly vigilant and be there to point
out
the obvious to you in your time of need.

.......thanks for your typical Canadian style support.


joe

CM

"Joe" wrote in message

Yeah thats what us Americans said when Hitler started his ****. We
smartened up...whats your excuse?

The analogy to Hilter is ill fitting in this case.... it was the USA that
invaded without sanction nor cause... a sovergein nation posing no threat to
it's citizens. Unfortunatly for the mases in your country, the threat to
your nation by Al Queda and the Invasion of Iraq have somehow become
incorrectly almagamated .

Yes they murder like cowards.....Yet we are to afford them the same
treatment an honorable member of an armed forces deserves.

I do not consider cluster bombs deployed from 5000 ft and guided missles
with spent uranium payloads launched from 1000 miles to be "Bravery".....
you currently outgun your foe and yet cannot contain them.


Count us in as one of the few..the proud..

Yes.. Well.... quiant Marine slogans do not a victory make.


Yes make headline that you and Donal latch onto hook line and sinker

Which only proves you are playing their game.... but I don't pay much heed
to who's being blown up by whom and who has lost their head this week. It's
your war.... you fight it.


In WW11 I heard people couldent even go out and buy a set of tires.
They rationed Gasoline, people grew victory gardens. In other words we
have a history of suffering to ensure the American way of life. Freedom
is not free, it is only taken and held by those brave enough to die for
it.

A fine ethic to have... but it has nothing to do with the fact that a
terrorist you placed into power and armed... has turned on you. It has even
less to do with the fact you erroniously invaded a country without due
cause.

Talk to Syria if they were tortured. If that did indeed happen Mooron
then the people involved should be punished. However if they were
wanted in Syria and we have an extridiction agreement then by law we
were required to send them to Syria.

The citizens were not Syrian and had no ties to terrorism. We unlike you do
not inerfere in the workings of a sovergein nation. It was not Syria that
illegaly abducted these people... it was the USA.... nobody has extradition
agreements with Syria. The USA does have an agreement with Syria to confine
and torture persons sent to them.


That the pro-terrorists spin on things I'm sure

Not at all.... it's simple that when you make claims of moral superiority
you should accept the fact you will be held to account for it.


Why allow truth to blind you of the fact this is a global effort to
capture track down anyone who would try to pull another 911 attack.
Will you still be moaning when and if we get hit again ?

A disaster and a total failure... if not a total embarrasment for the USA is
that Osama is free and his recruitment efforts are up due to his precieved
success and invunerability.

Good intention like sitting back and not doing anything type of
intentions?

No.. more like misguided interference and aggression based on delivery of
democracy to thinly veil delusional and ill informed objectives


We have a plan

I suggest you implement it immediatly.... your current attempts are not
having much effect.

**** they are dying a 1000 to 1 of us...That seems to be in our
advantage Mooron.

Not really..... and your casualty fiqures are grossly incorrect.


......thanks for your typical Canadian style support.

We'll be there when it's justified..... like we always have been.

CM

Mooron may not hate anyone, but he sure does love his chickens!

In article sDoXd.21787$fc4.2050@edtnps89,
Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Joe" wrote in message

Mooron instead of always hitching your wagon to the hate the USA Ass
team, you need to look at the whole picture? This is a global effort
to fight terrorist, not just a USA effort.

I don't hate anyone.... I like the USA... it's just amusing to hear your
"spin" on the issues. It's not a global effort at all..... matter of fact
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Jon Gaynz" wrote :

I may not hate anyone, but I sure do choke my chickens!

"Capt. Mooron" wrote:

The case in point being...... the taking citizens of Canada and
Australia, apprehended while enroute to other destinations through US
airports, selected upon ethnic guidelines and deporting them from the USA
to Syria

Geeze, Capt., take a chill pill. ;-)

At least you guys get to take a little trip before you endure the uneven
hand of the USA. They treat the prisoners in our city worse than in
Guantanamo Bay! Why should we treat anyone else any better than our own
prisoners?

Thousands of cases to point out, but one that took me most by surprise a
couple of years ago was a homeless man downtown. He was drunk and the
Oklahoma City cops were giving hell on a dark lonely street in an empty
parking lot. The police called for back up and they had around a dozen cops
pointing a gun at the mental case. The guy picked up a rock and the dirty
dozen put several rounds of ammo in the poor guy. The FBI were called in,
but nothing ever came of it. At least we don't discriminate! We are
photographed and finger printed for a drivers license!

LP

OzOne wrote in message
With all the resources thrown at the war, you have no-one fluent in
the languages of the people you're fighting?

Well, actually, not nearly enough. Remember, we think everybody should
speak English.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
I do not consider cluster bombs deployed from 5000 ft and guided missles
with spent uranium payloads launched from 1000 miles to be "Bravery".....
you currently outgun your foe and yet cannot contain them.

Minor point - there are no spent Uranium payloads on missiles. Depleted
Uranium is used in some bullets because it is heavier and thus ballistically
superior to lead. Prolly where the urban legend started.

Capt. Mooron wrote:



......thanks for your typical Canadian style support.

We'll be there when it's justified..... like we always have been.

CM

Justification?

officials said Wednesday that 41 bodies some bullet-riddled, others
beheaded have been found at two separate sites, and they believe some
of the corpses are Iraqi soldiers kidnapped and killed by insurgents.

In an Internet statement, al-Qaida in Iraq purportedly claimed
responsibility for the attack on the Sadeer hotel, calling it the
"hotel of the Jews."


Hitler went after the jews to right?

More ethnic cleansing Donal, Mooron?

But hey....It's not a story about dead Americans or abused murders so
let's all look the other way.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message

Justification?

Yes Joe... justification!


officials said Wednesday that 41 bodies some bullet-riddled, others
beheaded have been found at two separate sites, and they believe some
of the corpses are Iraqi soldiers kidnapped and killed by insurgents.

I take it that you somehow believe this to be some validation for the USA
being in Iraq... when in truth it would not have occured had you not been
there in the first place. In other words the many deaths and atrocities
contributed to Saddam have now been shouldered by the USA's invasion. Look
Joe.... I'm certain you really believe that your government was spurred by
altrustic goals.... but it just does not appear that way to the majority
of the planet.


In an Internet statement, al-Qaida in Iraq purportedly claimed
responsibility for the attack on the Sadeer hotel, calling it the
"hotel of the Jews."

Joe... there are a plethora of human rights abuses and criminal actions
undertaken by a wide variety of groups on a global basis.... what is
happening in Iraq is no worse than what is transpiring elsewhere.... the
question is do you want to be identified as a cause or a solution to the
problem.



Hitler went after the jews to right?

....and the Muslim fundamentalists are going after the Christians with the
same mindset and the Christians are going after the Muslims with the same
mindset..... the connection here is the mindset.


More ethnic cleansing Donal, Mooron?

Cetainly.... the planet is overpopulated and I've made my position clear on
this, on several occasions.... kill as many as you wish. Just don't try to
pass it off as a higher moral action to save the world.


But hey....It's not a story about dead Americans or abused murders so
let's all look the other way.

That's not the point at all... the point is that both sides are claiming
moral justification for murder and vilifying anyone that doesn't agree with
them.

Lets not waste words when bullets do the job quite nicely... Eh?

CM

OzOne wrote in message

So that's what's happening in Guantanamo ! Reeducation!

From what I hear it's a cake walk compared to Syria.

CM

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mooron instead of always hitching your wagon to the hate the USA Ass
team, you need to look at the whole picture? This is a global effort

to fight terrorist, not just a USA effort.


I don't hate anyone.... I like the USA... it's just amusing to hear
your
"spin" on the issues. It's not a global effort at all..... matter of
fact
it's only countries being attacked by "terrorists" that have a war on
their
hands.

Yeah thats what us Americans said when Hitler started his ****. We
smartened up...whats your excuse?

Joe, you really are the epitomy of redneckism! You know as much about
history as you know about the CollRegs!

America did nothing until Hitler Declared war on the USA.



Regards


Donal
--

And your thick as a brick Donal.

Thats what I said. America thought it was the problem of you your-a
peein's , not an American problem.

Just as Mooron says the war on terror only involves the ones that
have been attacked. That is why he feels it is not a Canadian problem,
because Canada has not been attacked.

Saddam was known for his studies & envy of Hitler.

Can you follow along ....see a pattern? Can you look back and see what
went wrong then?

Don't you wish America took out Hitler day 1 of his Blitz ?

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. Mooron wrote:



......thanks for your typical Canadian style support.

We'll be there when it's justified..... like we always have been.

CM

Justification?

officials said Wednesday that 41 bodies some bullet-riddled, others
beheaded have been found at two separate sites, and they believe some
of the corpses are Iraqi soldiers kidnapped and killed by insurgents.

In an Internet statement, al-Qaida in Iraq purportedly claimed
responsibility for the attack on the Sadeer hotel, calling it the
"hotel of the Jews."

Joe,
Sometimes I am truly astonished at the level of ignorance that you are
willing to display in public.
Al Qaida were not allowed to operate in Iraq under Saddam. Al Qaeda
established their foothold in Iraq as a direct result of the instability
that resulted from the overthrow of the regime.



Hitler went after the jews to right?

Correct. However, the US did NOT enter the war until Hitler made an
official declaration of war against the US in 1941. Remember, WWII started
two years earlier in 1939.


More ethnic cleansing Donal, Mooron?



Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. Mooron wrote:



......thanks for your typical Canadian style support.

We'll be there when it's justified..... like we always have
been.

CM

Justification?

officials said Wednesday that 41 bodies some bullet-riddled, others
beheaded have been found at two separate sites, and they believe
some
of the corpses are Iraqi soldiers kidnapped and killed by
insurgents.

In an Internet statement, al-Qaida in Iraq purportedly claimed
responsibility for the attack on the Sadeer hotel, calling it the
"hotel of the Jews."

Joe,
Sometimes I am truly astonished at the level of ignorance that you
are
willing to display in public.
Al Qaida were not allowed to operate in Iraq under Saddam.

BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.



Al Qaeda
established their foothold in Iraq as a direct result of the
instability
that resulted from the overthrow of the regime.


They had a foot hole prior to our liberating the Iraqi people




Joe

Al Qaida were not allowed to operate in Iraq under Saddam.


Joe wrote:
BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.


No, Joe, that's Bush-Cheney propaganda which they back off from as soon
as a grown-up walks into the room. Did you see any of the debates?
President Bush couldn't back pedal fast enough when asked about that
directly.

There was an airplane hulk in *Kurdistan* that some people have
*claimed* was used by terrorists, but there was never any established
connection to Al Queda.

Al-Queda is a fundamentalist Moslem (ie religious whacko) group. Saddam
Hussein was a secular ruler... 180 apart in ideology, almost 180 apart
in goals...

Check out the conclusions of the Sept 11th investigating committee...
you know, the one Bush & Cheney tried to avoid having *at all* and then
tried to avoid having to testify for, and then finally refused to
testify on certain subjects and (that's not all folks) refused to
testify under oath.

Go look it up for yourself. You'll only get mad and call me names if I
tell you what they discovered.

DSK

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:18:34 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:

Al Qaida were not allowed to operate in Iraq under Saddam.


Joe wrote:
BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.


No, Joe, that's Bush-Cheney propaganda which they back off from as soon
as a grown-up walks into the room. Did you see any of the debates?
President Bush couldn't back pedal fast enough when asked about that
directly.

There was an airplane hulk in *Kurdistan* that some people have
*claimed* was used by terrorists, but there was never any established
connection to Al Queda.


You are incorrect. The Salman Pak terrorist camp had an airline
fuselage for training hijackers. Salman Pak was about 50 miles
outside Baghdad. Check it out before you start telling more lies.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:52:26 +1100, OzOne wrote this crap:

On 10 Mar 2005 16:49:03 -0800, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:


BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.

Nope, it was claimed as a fact in huge headlines during the US
invasion....then very very quietly retracted.



Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret
terrorist training facility at Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and
non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains,
planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...salman_pak.htm





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Donal" wrote
Correct. However, the US did NOT enter the war until Hitler made an
official declaration of war against the US in 1941. Remember, WWII
started
two years earlier in 1939.

That's mostly, but not entirely true. The US began supplying Russia and the
UK, and loosing ships and merchant sailors early on.

"Joe" wrote
Don't you wish America took out Hitler day 1 of his Blitz ?


America could NOT have taken out Hitler on day 1 of his blitz any more than
England and France could. That is why comparing him with Iraq is
meaningless. Germany was (and is) a highly industrialized nation, capable
of producing some of the best soldiers and weapons in the world. Iraq,
otoh, is a 3rd world country - rich it oil but without industry to produce
its own weapons. Hitler's Panzers and Tiger tanks were better than anything
the allies had, including our Shermans, and sliced thru Europe like a knife
thru butter. The Luftwaffe enjoyed air superiority until well into the war.
Saddam, otoh, had no air force and only older Soviet tanks that had proven
themselves far inferior to ours in the last Gulf War - and the troops
manning them knew it was suicide to oppose US armor and air power and fought
accordingly. Hell, Iran had fought him to a draw.

Saddam knew all this from bitter experience in the last go-around and had no
desire to fight us again. He had a comfortable position in Iraq but no
illusions about expanding it. Look what had happened when he took on Iran.
Cost him a bundle for nothing. Better yet, look what happened when he
invaded Quwait. Got a good ass-kicking and but for the timidness of some US
officials would have lost his job then. Saddam may well have envied Hitler,
but I doubt he had any illusion of copying him. Saddam was no threat to
anyone except al Qaeda and other radicals in his own country. Now he is
out, we are having to deal with them ... and they might be winning.

"Horvath" wrote
You are incorrect. The Salman Pak terrorist camp had an airline
fuselage for training hijackers. Salman Pak was about 50 miles
outside Baghdad. Check it out before you start telling more lies.

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040703.asp

Two years ago, marines discovered an abandoned installation containing a
rusted-out airliner hulk, some buildings, and burned out busses. It was
eagerly concluded that this was the smoking gun tying Saddam to Al Qaeda and
9/11. A large quantity of documents expected to prove these connetions and
the existence of WMDs were seized and turned over to intellegence. So far,
after two years, we've heard no results from these analyses despite the need
to justify the invasion. So, we have only the word of an Iraqi officer who
defected to Turkey in 1999 that this was a terrorist training camp. Draw
your own conclusions.

"Horvath" wrote
Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret
terrorist training facility at Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and
non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains,
planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...salman_pak.htm

Yes and Marines recovered many documents and turned them over to
intellegence. However, its been two years now and no government or
reputable news agency I know of has given the story enough credability to
make the news despite Bush's need to find a smoking gun tying Saddam to al
Qaeda or 9/11.

Marines found an old airline hulk and burned out buses. Since then, not a
word. No mention in the 9/11 report.

BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.

Nope, it was claimed as a fact in huge headlines during the US
invasion....then very very quietly retracted.


No, the same old line of crapola keeps getting recirculating. Notice how
nobody with any official standing in the Bush Administration says
anything about it nowadays, but they have plenty of proxies to keep on
tub-thumping... remember, if you repeat a lie often enough, loudly
enough, plenty of people will accept it as fact.

Horvath wrote:
Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret
terrorist training facility at Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and
non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains,
planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...salman_pak.htm


And these are the same people that were insisting Saddam Hussein had
weapons of mass destruction.

Sure... they're totally right, Horkie!

You better *read* that web site you quoted.

DSK

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:54:34 -0500, "Vito" wrote
this crap:

"Horvath" wrote
Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret
terrorist training facility at Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and
non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains,
planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...salman_pak.htm

Yes and Marines recovered many documents and turned them over to
intellegence. However, its been two years now and no government or
reputable news agency I know of has given the story enough credability to
make the news despite Bush's need to find a smoking gun tying Saddam to al
Qaeda or 9/11.

Marines found an old airline hulk and burned out buses. Since then, not a
word. No mention in the 9/11 report.



What part of "airline fuselage at Salman Pak, used to train
terrorists," don't you understand?

Mohammed Atta was trained at Salman Pak, dumbass.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:14:20 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:

You better *read* that web site you quoted.


I have. You've already proven yourself to be the biggest liar on this
newsgroup. And that's saying a lot.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

BS AlQaida had training camps in Iraq. Its a fact.

eemmmm!
You are completely wrong, Joe.

Al Quaida did *NOT* have training camps in Iraq.

They didn't have any camps in Iraq because Saddam hated Al Quaida, and Al
Quaida hated Saddem.


Al Qaeda
established their foothold in Iraq as a direct result of the
instability
that resulted from the overthrow of the regime.


They had a foot hole prior to our liberating the Iraqi people


No, Joe ..... they did not.


Really.


Believe me.


Regards



Donal
--

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Donal" wrote
Correct. However, the US did NOT enter the war until Hitler made an
official declaration of war against the US in 1941. Remember, WWII
started
two years earlier in 1939.

That's mostly, but not entirely true. The US began supplying Russia and
the
UK, and loosing ships and merchant sailors early on.

You are absolutely correct. I thought that I had chosen my words very
carefully.

You, obviously, think that "trade" is the same as "entering the war".

The fact is that you did *not* enter the war until Hitler declared war on
the US.

The Jews had nothing to do with it at all.


Regards


Donal
--

Oz,

It would be a damn good idea that you read over your post and try to
find one shred of proof for any of the many accusations you've stated.

Oz would you even consider it OK for the terrorist to do those things to
their prisoners. Would the US have a right to object? Not to worry. The
prisoner of the terrorist are executed; on trail as in the 31 bodies
found shot and decapitated or the 45 killed in the Mosque. No jail time,
no trial no justification at all.

Yeah, only the US can do wrong and convicted without proven accusations.

Excuse me group. I was stupid enough to think logic would be worth
something. I really know it is useless.

Ole Thom

Vito wrote:

"Marines found an old airline hulk and burned out buses. Since then,
not a
word. No mention in the 9/11 report."

EXCERPTS OF THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT

Bin Ladin was also willing to explore possibilities for
cooperation
with Iraq, even though Iraq's dictator, Saddam Hussein, had
never
had an Islamist agenda-save for his opportunistic pose as a
defender
of the faithful against "Crusaders" during the Gulf War of
1991.
Moreover, Bin Ladin had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam
Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into
his
Islamic army.53
To protect his own ties with Iraq, Turabi reportedly brokered
an
agreement that Bin Ladin would stop supporting activities
against
Saddam. Bin Ladin apparently honored this pledge, at least for
a
time, although he continued to aid a group of Islamist
extremists
operating in part of Iraq (Kurdistan) outside of Baghdad's
control.
In the late 1990s, these extremist groups suffered major
defeats by
Kurdish forces. In 2001, with Bin Ladin's help they re-formed
into
an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications
that by
then the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar
al
Islam against the common Kurdish enemy.54
With the Sudanese regime acting as intermediary, Bin Ladin
himself
met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer in Khartoum in
late
1994 or early 1995. Bin Ladin is said to have asked for space
to
establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring
weapons, but there is no evidence that Iraq responded to this
request.55 As described below, the ensuing years saw additional
efforts to establish connections.
Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his
aides
may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported
strains
with the Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials
offered Bin Ladin a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined,
apparently judging that his circumstances in Afghanistan
remained
more favorable than the Iraqi alternative. The reports describe
friendly contacts and indicate some common themes in both
sides'
hatred of the United States. But to date we have seen no
evidence ====NOTE
that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a
collaborative operational relationship. Nor have we seen
evidence
indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or
carrying out any attacks against the United States.76

"Horvath" wrote
Marines found an old airline hulk and burned out buses. Since then, not
a
word. No mention in the 9/11 report.

What part of "airline fuselage at Salman Pak, used to train
terrorists," don't you understand?

The part about "used to train terrorists". The only pub's who seem to think
this are Moon's. Everybody else seems to believe the plane and busses were
used for counter-terrorist training. Since the intel people aren't saying I
tend to believe the mainstream news over Rev Moon's two publications.

Mohammed Atta was trained at Salman Pak, dumbass.

Where did you hear that ... from the Rev?

"Donal" wrote
You, obviously, think that "trade" is the same as "entering the war".

The fact is that you did *not* enter the war until Hitler declared war on
the US.

The Jews had nothing to do with it at all.

Depends on your definition of "enter". AFAIK the US did not declare war on
Germany nor send any troops to Europe until Hitler declared war - as you
say. OTOH, the US did supply both the UK and Russia - but not Germany -
with war materials on very easy credit (Lend-Lease Program) earlier and lost
a number of ships and merchant sailors lives doing so. Some, especially the
nazis, thot that constituted entering the war.

I don't understand your comment about Jews. While there was prejudice
against them it was on the level of "can't get into the country club",
nothing like in Europe. The reason is US Jews themselves. By and large they
are Americans who happen to be Jewish instead of Catholics or Baptists or
???. The vast majority don't speak a different language, dress differently,
or live in ghettos or otherwise set themselves apart like euro Jews did
pre-ww2. As citizens many Jews lobbied for the US to join the war. Other
Americans, particularly of German descent felt otherwise .... til Pearl
Harbor. The compromise was a policy that greatly favored the UK at the
expense of Hitler but stopped short of actually joining the war.

Vito wrote:
....

I don't understand your comment about Jews. While there was prejudice
against them it was on the level of "can't get into the country club",
nothing like in Europe. The reason is US Jews themselves. By and large they
are Americans who happen to be Jewish instead of Catholics or Baptists or
???. The vast majority don't speak a different language, dress differently,
or live in ghettos or otherwise set themselves apart like euro Jews did
pre-ww2.

While the East-European Jews were often "set apart" by their various
customs, the German Jew were well integrated into society for more
than a century. Extreme prejudice does not require funning clothing
as a target.