.... While the long stretched-out overhangs
look really elegant, they throw spray and they're a great way to get
small-boat accomodation in a big boat LOA.

Maxprop wrote:
True on both counts. Spray is a given with our boat in the right
conditions, but we have a dodger and bimini, so it's not a problem. And
yes, the accommodations are roughly equal to a 31' boat of broader beam and
more modern design.

This is a sistership of one of my family's boats when I was a teenager
(and dinosaurs roamed the Earth)
http://www.woodship.com/fleet/tarna/default.aspx

Later I owned a share in a converted 6-meter, which unfortunately I
don't have any pictures of. That type of hull is lovely, seakindly, and
the better ones can really sail.

... The narrow beam of the CCA boats does, however, allow
them to be very slippery through the water. A friend's new Catalina 350
drags her transom something awful, leaving a turbulent wake behind the boat.

Yes, but that's a question of volume distribution. At certain speed
length ratios, it's actually more efficient. Look at the prismatic
coefficient. It's not elegant though.

Our boat leaves virtually nothing behind. It's often deceptive, it's so
quiet. One has to go forward to see and hear the bow wave to convince the
senses that we really are moving along with a good turn of speed.


I used to lay on my back on the fantail, steering with my feet and
looking up at the mainsail leach. It is very good view of the rig and
almost totally dissociates one from everything else... a Zen state. Why
worry about the wake? It will take care of itself

Anyway, this hull form was originated with the Universal & International
Rules, which were measurement rules that taxed waterline. So long
overhangs became "rule beaters" and fashionable. The common explanation
that these overhangs immerse and lengthen the waterline when heeled is
at least partly true.

There's a Luders 40-something sloop that is IMHO one of the most
drop-dead gorgeous boats ever built.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

You should know the Rules so the next time you are solo
sailing, drunk and passed out, you can put the "Red over Red
Captain is Dead" lights up while you sleep it your drunken
binge.

This is so everyone else can steer well clear, or else sneak
aboard and tie your shoe laces together. grin

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

What are "the COLREGS" ??????

For a liveaboard you seem awfully anal & uptight

You guys and your petty little discussions regarding a set of rules that
in your cases is not enforceable, carries almost no weight in court and is
subject to wide interpretation... well it's so darn amusing!

Here's a friggin hint..... It's a big ocean and you're on a very little
boat.... stay the **** out of the way of everything bigger and faster.
Leave the rules to the racers, professionals and their vessels.

Do you really think I give a **** about who is to windward and who is
burdened if I'm being overtaken?? Nothing is more comical and dangerous
than a sailboat assuming right of way over a larger commercial vessel. If
it's another sailboat I'll give all the room I can.... If it's a bigger
boat or power vessel I'll provide as much room as they need. I cruise....
I'm never in a rush... even the odd time I race.

Plus my vessel is armed to the teeth with water balloon launchers..... I
got one that has a 200 yard range!! Imagine the havoc a gas filled balloon
and a flare gun could create! :-)

CM

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
I can't help but notice how our part-time Canadian sailor is too
chicken to answer the COLREGs questions.
CN


"Gull Rock's" wrote in message
...
Great place for Navigation rules

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_l_a.jsp

There was actually a case where a ship claimed rights as a RAM because
the crew had the flu. They were held liable for the ensuing incident.

Bart Senior wrote:
You should know the Rules so the next time you are solo
sailing, drunk and passed out, you can put the "Red over Red
Captain is Dead" lights up while you sleep it your drunken
binge.

This is so everyone else can steer well clear, or else sneak
aboard and tie your shoe laces together. grin

"Capt. Mooron" wrote


What are "the COLREGS" ??????

For a liveaboard you seem awfully anal & uptight

You guys and your petty little discussions regarding a set of rules that
in your cases is not enforceable, carries almost no weight in court and is
subject to wide interpretation... well it's so darn amusing!

Here's a friggin hint..... It's a big ocean and you're on a very little
boat.... stay the **** out of the way of everything bigger and faster.
Leave the rules to the racers, professionals and their vessels.

Do you really think I give a **** about who is to windward and who is
burdened if I'm being overtaken?? Nothing is more comical and dangerous
than a sailboat assuming right of way over a larger commercial vessel. If
it's another sailboat I'll give all the room I can.... If it's a bigger
boat or power vessel I'll provide as much room as they need. I cruise....
I'm never in a rush... even the odd time I race.

Plus my vessel is armed to the teeth with water balloon launchers..... I
got one that has a 200 yard range!! Imagine the havoc a gas filled balloon
and a flare gun could create! :-)

CM

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

I can't help but notice how our part-time Canadian sailor is too
chicken to answer the COLREGs questions.
CN


"Gull Rock's" wrote in message
...

Great place for Navigation rules

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_l_a.jsp

Jeff Morris wrote:
There was actually a case where a ship claimed rights as a RAM because
the crew had the flu. They were held liable for the ensuing incident.

ROFLMAO Did you get the name of the lawyer? I may want him/her on
retainer for vivid imagination sake.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:
Jeff Morris wrote:

There was actually a case where a ship claimed rights as a RAM because
the crew had the flu. They were held liable for the ensuing incident.


ROFLMAO Did you get the name of the lawyer? I may want him/her on
retainer for vivid imagination sake.

otn


The ship entered port show RAM shapes. This case gets cited to show
that you actually have to be a RAM (or NUC) to avoid liability. I'll
have to dig it up (its in Farwells) to see if it implies negligence.

Jeff Morris wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:

Jeff Morris wrote:

There was actually a case where a ship claimed rights as a RAM
because the crew had the flu. They were held liable for the ensuing
incident.



ROFLMAO Did you get the name of the lawyer? I may want him/her on
retainer for vivid imagination sake.

otn


The ship entered port show RAM shapes. This case gets cited to show
that you actually have to be a RAM (or NUC) to avoid liability. I'll
have to dig it up (its in Farwells) to see if it implies negligence.


ROFL
I can understand their reasoning.
I was on a ship where a particularly virulent strain of flu went through
the ship.
We were at sea, and 95% were bed ridden and unable to stand watch. Those
of us who were not, maintained the watches for a long period and luckily
kept us out of trouble.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:
Jeff Morris wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:

Jeff Morris wrote:

There was actually a case where a ship claimed rights as a RAM
because the crew had the flu. They were held liable for the ensuing
incident.




ROFLMAO Did you get the name of the lawyer? I may want him/her on
retainer for vivid imagination sake.

otn


The ship entered port show RAM shapes. This case gets cited to show
that you actually have to be a RAM (or NUC) to avoid liability. I'll
have to dig it up (its in Farwells) to see if it implies negligence.



ROFL
I can understand their reasoning.
I was on a ship where a particularly virulent strain of flu went through
the ship.
We were at sea, and 95% were bed ridden and unable to stand watch. Those
of us who were not, maintained the watches for a long period and luckily
kept us out of trouble.

otn
I found such a case (not quite what I was remembering): In 1969, in
the Dover Straits, good visibility but F8 wind, a ship, the "Djerba,"
had been subjected to four days of heavy weather and was carrying NUC
lights, even though they had full use of the engine and steering.
There was, of course, a collision, and the Admiralty Court held that
Djerba was in breach for showing the light when not entitled.
Further, because she otherwise was the give-way vessel, she was not
relieved of that responsibility. Djerba was apportioned 60% of the
blame, and it was upheld on appeal.

hard as as it is for the Crab Crusher Mafia to swallow, fin keel boats
have sailed round Cape Horn... in fact I bet by now that more fin keelers
have...


Maxprop wrote:
Doubtful, unless you're discounting the centuries when multi-masted cargo
ships rounded the Horn in lieu of the Panama Canal, which was not yet
constructed.


Discounting them, there's no doubt at all that fin keelers would be in
the majority. Including the old commercial sailing vessels, it might be
a closer call than you think... how many rounded the Horn in a given
year on average? Anyway, it's for sure that no more are going to, so
it's only a matter of time.

DSK

DSK wrote:
hard as as it is for the Crab Crusher Mafia to swallow, fin keel
boats have sailed round Cape Horn... in fact I bet by now that more
fin keelers have...



Maxprop wrote:

Doubtful, unless you're discounting the centuries when multi-masted
cargo ships rounded the Horn in lieu of the Panama Canal, which was
not yet constructed.


Discounting them, there's no doubt at all that fin keelers would be in
the majority. Including the old commercial sailing vessels, it might be
a closer call than you think... how many rounded the Horn in a given
year on average? Anyway, it's for sure that no more are going to, so
it's only a matter of time.

You've raised an interesting question he Is it proper to call the
old windjammers "crab crushers," or more specifically, do they have a
full length keel? Since they didn't carry any significant external
ballast, and the keels don't' provide much lateral resistance, they
aren't really a related design.

As for numbers, there were thousands of roundings over the centuries.

"DSK" wrote in message

hard as as it is for the Crab Crusher Mafia to swallow, fin keel boats
have sailed round Cape Horn... in fact I bet by now that more fin keelers
have...


Maxprop wrote:
Doubtful, unless you're discounting the centuries when multi-masted cargo
ships rounded the Horn in lieu of the Panama Canal, which was not yet
constructed.


Discounting them, there's no doubt at all that fin keelers would be in the
majority. Including the old commercial sailing vessels, it might be a
closer call than you think... how many rounded the Horn in a given year on
average?

I really don't have that info, but based on the quantity of East-West trade
during the 1800s and the early 1900s, I'd suspect it was in the hundreds, if
not thousands.

Anyway, it's for sure that no more are going to,

Beyond an occasional "vintage" vessel celebration, this is true.

so it's only a matter of time.

Yes. The fin keel has replaced the full keel in terms of sheer numbers, and
certainly where racing vessels, which comprise a large number of
Horn-rounders, are concerned.

Max

Max