A fine example for American youth!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4160697/detail.html

John Cairns

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 21:19:59 GMT, "John Cairns"
scribbled thusly:

A fine example for American youth!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4160697/detail.html

John Cairns

I just love this line

"He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women
around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis
continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway.
So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I think that by most modern psychiatric standards, this guy would be
classified as a psychopath.

John Cairns

OzOne wrote...
I just love this line

"He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women
around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis
continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway.
So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."


Well, at least he shows some discrimination about his targets...

John Cairns wrote:
I think that by most modern psychiatric standards, this guy would be
classified as a psychopath.


Why? Because he thinks it's fun to shoot real-life bad guys, or because
he talked about it publicly? He's a Marine, for gosh sake! Although as a
general he probably doesn't get to do much shooting in person.

I used to hunt deer with a retired gunny sargent. Didn't talk much but
every once in while he'd say something to the effect that deer just
aren't smart enough, or well enough armed, to be good sport.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Why? Because he thinks it's fun to shoot real-life bad guys, or because he
talked about it publicly? He's a Marine, for gosh sake! Although as a
general he probably doesn't get to do much shooting in person.

I used to hunt deer with a retired gunny sargent. Didn't talk much but
every once in while he'd say something to the effect that deer just aren't
smart enough, or well enough armed, to be good sport.

DSK

So, maybe psycho was an incorrect term.

"Browning puts considerable emphasis also on desensitization and
routinization of killing in explaining how men slowly escalated their
participation in killing. This is the psychology of commitment, much studied
in research on dissonance theory. In its modern version, dissonance is a
theory of rationalization in which individuals sucked into stupid or sleazy
behavior will change their opinions to justify and make sense of their
behavior. Probably the paradigm case of this psychology is another classic
study, Milgrams's research on obedience.

Milgram showed that the majority of normal individuals will give a supposed
"learner" increasing levels of shock, up to a maximum 450-volt shock labeled
"XXX DANGER STRONG SHOCK." Part of the power of this paradigm is the slow,
graded nature of the shocks, which begin at only 15 volts and increase 15
volts with every mistake the "learner" makes. So close is the grading of
shock levels that, at each level, to recognize something wrong with giving
the next level must imply something wrong with the level already
administered. Slow escalation of hurting others is a slippery slope in which
each act of aggression becomes a reason for more aggression.

Taken together, group dynamics and the psychology of escalating commitment
go a long way toward explaining how normal people can do awful things. Throw
in the reward and punishment power of the state, a power that needs move
only a small number of people to do the dirty work against a target class or
race, and even genocide begins to be comprehensible."

Can't find the attribution now, from a long article on the subject.

John Cairns

John Cairns wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Why? Because he thinks it's fun to shoot real-life bad guys, or
because he
talked about it publicly? He's a Marine, for gosh sake! Although as
a
general he probably doesn't get to do much shooting in person.

I used to hunt deer with a retired gunny sargent. Didn't talk much
but
every once in while he'd say something to the effect that deer just
aren't
smart enough, or well enough armed, to be good sport.

DSK

So, maybe psycho was an incorrect term.

"Browning puts considerable emphasis also on desensitization and
routinization of killing in explaining how men slowly escalated their

participation in killing. This is the psychology of commitment, much
studied
in research on dissonance theory. In its modern version, dissonance
is a
theory of rationalization in which individuals sucked into stupid or
sleazy
behavior will change their opinions to justify and make sense of
their
behavior. Probably the paradigm case of this psychology is another
classic
study, Milgrams's research on obedience.

Milgram showed that the majority of normal individuals will give a
supposed
"learner" increasing levels of shock, up to a maximum 450-volt shock
labeled
"XXX DANGER STRONG SHOCK." Part of the power of this paradigm is the
slow,
graded nature of the shocks, which begin at only 15 volts and
increase 15
volts with every mistake the "learner" makes. So close is the grading
of
shock levels that, at each level, to recognize something wrong with
giving
the next level must imply something wrong with the level already
administered. Slow escalation of hurting others is a slippery slope
in which
each act of aggression becomes a reason for more aggression.

Taken together, group dynamics and the psychology of escalating
commitment
go a long way toward explaining how normal people can do awful
things. Throw
in the reward and punishment power of the state, a power that needs
move
only a small number of people to do the dirty work against a target
class or
race, and even genocide begins to be comprehensible."


First off that's General Physco. Got it....good

Second, his job is to kill them before they kill him or his troops. It
is called war.

Third, If you do not have fun at work, You need to find another career.

besides, he was just huffin and puffin in front of suppliers.

Joe





Can't find the attribution now, from a long article on the subject.

John Cairns

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
First off that's General Physco. Got it....good

Second, his job is to kill them before they kill him or his troops. It
is called war.

Third, If you do not have fun at work, You need to find another career.

besides, he was just huffin and puffin in front of suppliers.

Joe

Yeah, I was starting to think that myself. After all, the govt. spends
hundreds ofthousands to educate and train, and keep this guy, seems unlikely
they'd risk their investment so cavalierly. Bad choice of words, more
propaganda fodder for the "enemy".

John Cairns

Sounds like he should retire and
become a divorce lawyer..

GaleB

John Cairns wrote:
So, maybe psycho was an incorrect term.

"... In its modern version, dissonance is a
theory of rationalization in which individuals sucked into stupid or sleazy
behavior will change their opinions to justify and make sense of their
behavior."

Hey, I didn't realize this thread was going to get into politics so quickly!


Milgram showed that the majority of normal individuals will give a supposed
"learner" increasing levels of shock, up to a maximum 450-volt shock labeled
"XXX DANGER STRONG SHOCK." Part of the power of this paradigm is the slow,
graded nature of the shocks, which begin at only 15 volts and increase 15
volts with every mistake the "learner" makes. So close is the grading of
shock levels that, at each level, to recognize something wrong with giving
the next level must imply something wrong with the level already
administered. Slow escalation of hurting others is a slippery slope in which
each act of aggression becomes a reason for more aggression.


Sure, especially with the added reinforcement of social approval for
aggressive or violent acts.


Taken together, group dynamics and the psychology of escalating commitment
go a long way toward explaining how normal people can do awful things.

That's how you take everyday suburban kids who probably love their
puppies and/or kittens etc etc, and turn them into combat infantrymen...
or concentration camp guards.

It's not particularly advanced psychology, it's more like common
sense... and it's been done since before Alexander the Great. In one
way, re-socialing people to do things they normally would not approve of
is "leadership."

The real issue here is not how to get normally-socialized people to kill
or otherwise brutalize each other, but to what purposes that training is
put.

... Throw
in the reward and punishment power of the state, a power that needs move
only a small number of people to do the dirty work against a target class or
race, and even genocide begins to be comprehensible."


Again, the real issue is the underlying moral justification for the
acts. You knew the U.S. Marine Corps purpose was to kill the enemy in
large numbers, right? That's why I say that Lt. Gen. Mattis is *not* a
psycho for his statements, but that he showed bad judgement in making
pretty blatant statements to an audience that does not share his
socialization for killing... a more important question to me is how
he... his fellow generals... and even more importantly, the civilians
who give the Pentagon it's instructions... decide who is to be "the enemy."

Can't find the attribution now, from a long article on the subject.


It's an interesting read, thanks for posting it.

Regards
Doug King

Heh.... all he said was ... and I quote...

According to an audio recording of Mattis' remarks, he said, "Actually,
it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. ... It's fun
to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."


He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for
five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know,
guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot
of fun to shoot them."

Do you think they should send someone more sensitive and in touch with their
feminine side?

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. ..
A fine example for American youth!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4160697/detail.html

John Cairns

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. ..
A fine example for American youth!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4160697/detail.html

I agree (he's a fine example) and see no reason anybody is upset by his
remarks. Most Taliban need killing. Too bad I'm too old to participate.
Why is killing them, or similar dangerous religious nuts, any different than
swatting a pesky fly or burning out a hornet nest.