"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Correction, I spoke in haste. By definition, the following vessel is
to weather of the lead vessel when both are on a beam reach.

This is because the apparent wind is all the vessels 'see' and
the sailing rules do not address apparent wind. They address
actual wind. Because two vessels on a beam reach are bringing
the wind forward, the wind as seen from a stationery observer
would be slightly aft of abeam. This means the following vessel
is the windward vessel and according to the sailing rules, this
vessel is the give-way vessel. Since he is already the give way
vessel Rule 13 is superfluous.

What if they're both on a slightly close reach? Ie, such that the apparent
wind is forward of the beam but, to a stationary observer, the real wind is
precisely on their beams? In this situation, would one or other be the
windward boat?

"Wally" wrote in message k...
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Correction, I spoke in haste. By definition, the following vessel is
to weather of the lead vessel when both are on a beam reach.

This is because the apparent wind is all the vessels 'see' and
the sailing rules do not address apparent wind. They address
actual wind. Because two vessels on a beam reach are bringing
the wind forward, the wind as seen from a stationery observer
would be slightly aft of abeam. This means the following vessel
is the windward vessel and according to the sailing rules, this
vessel is the give-way vessel. Since he is already the give way
vessel Rule 13 is superfluous.

What if they're both on a slightly close reach? Ie, such that the apparent
wind is forward of the beam but, to a stationary observer, the real wind is
precisely on their beams? In this situation, would one or other be the
windward boat?


In the situation you describe the lead boat would be to weather because
he's in the lead.

CN

Wally wrote in message
k...
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Correction, I spoke in haste. By definition, the following vessel is
to weather of the lead vessel when both are on a beam reach.
This is because the apparent wind is all the vessels 'see' and
the sailing rules do not address apparent wind. They address
actual wind. Because two vessels on a beam reach are bringing
the wind forward, the wind as seen from a stationery observer
would be slightly aft of abeam. This means the following vessel
is the windward vessel and according to the sailing rules, this
vessel is the give-way vessel. Since he is already the give way
vessel Rule 13 is superfluous.

What if they're both on a slightly close reach? Ie, such that the apparent
wind is forward of the beam but, to a stationary observer, the real wind
is
precisely on their beams? In this situation, would one or other be the
windward boat?

Wally, please learn to leave the bait alone.
FYI there are no 'stationary observers' out at sea and moreover since one
of the boats is by definition faster than the other their apparent wind
directions will differ anyway. It is not really all that complicated. If you
are overtaking another boat you have to keep clear until you are 'clear
ahead'.

"Edgar" wrote in message news:U7aLd.6639

FYI there are no 'stationary observers' out at sea and moreover since one
of the boats is by definition faster than the other their apparent wind
directions will differ anyway. It is not really all that complicated. If
you
are overtaking another boat you have to keep clear until you are 'clear
ahead'.

So, are you saying that, when the colregs refers to one boat being to
windward of another, that this is with reference to the apparent wind?

Wally wrote in message
k...
"Edgar" wrote in message news:U7aLd.6639

FYI there are no 'stationary observers' out at sea and moreover since
one
of the boats is by definition faster than the other their apparent wind
directions will differ anyway. It is not really all that complicated. If
you
are overtaking another boat you have to keep clear until you are 'clear
ahead'.

So, are you saying that, when the colregs refers to one boat being to
windward of another, that this is with reference to the apparent wind?

There is no other way to go unless you are prepared to read your speed log,
then go below and draw a velocity triangle to find the true wind and then
hope the other guy has done the same. This is a red herring that Neal has
drawn across the track and in practice it is not hard to know who is to
windward without any complications.