Sea Chase
 

Was on TV last night.

It's one of John Waynes best flicks ever, even if he plays a German
Merchant Marine Master.

As the Capt. of his ship he signed his logs with the title of "Master"
not Master Mariner. The term Master Mariner is a made up term that no
one should ever dare use... unless they want to spit in the eye of
Neptune himself..

John Waynes role was a story of one of the most daring and skillfull
Mastering of a ship and crew to outwit the British Navy and bring his
men home. If you have not seen it... you're missing one of the best sea
stories ever filmed IMO.

The only Flik flub I noticed was after loading his freighter with 130
cords of wood the draft hardly changed at all. The rest of the film is
totally right on in every detail, unlike todays films. Take the Perfect
Storm for example I'm sure that had a tech directors with the titles of
Master Mariner that made real sailors look like idiots and retards.

The Sea Chase was on TCM.... perhaps they will re-run it Scotty if you
havent seen it, and since you have never seen The Wake of the Red
Witch, there is a good chance you have not seen Sea Chase.
**** a 4 star Movie

Joe

The Sea Chase
1955 - Warner Brothers

Main Cast: John Wayne, Lana Turner, David Farrar, Lyle Bettger, James
Arness, Tab Hunter, Paul Fix, Claude Akins. Directed by John Farrow.
John Wayne plays Captain Karl Ehrilch, in this drama which takes place
at the start of World War II. John is a German sea captain. When the
war breaks out, he outruns the British Navy half way around the world
in an attempt to return his ship and crew to their home. Lana Turner
plays a German spy who falls in love with Wayne during the voyage. At
one point, the German freighter lands on Auckland Island for food and
clothing. Unknown to Wayne, Lyle Bettger machine-guns six fishermen,
and Wayne is blamed. The British finally are able to sink Wayne's ship,
just short of Germany. Wayne and Turner, however, are able to escape to
Norway.

Joe wrote:
Was on TV last night.

It's one of John Waynes best flicks ever, even if he plays a German
Merchant Marine Master.

Much better than the one where he read his Lat/Long directly from the
sextant, though I liked that movie also.


As the Capt. of his ship he signed his logs with the title of "Master"
not Master Mariner. The term Master Mariner is a made up term that no
one should ever dare use... unless they want to spit in the eye of
Neptune himself..

ROFL You going to harp on this forever?
The Master of a ship will sign his name on shipboard documents as either
"Capt. Joe Shmoe, Master" or "Joe Shmoe, Master". The term/title is not
used/needed on those documents.
The use of the term/title "Master Mariner" is basically a shoreside one
used within the industry to designate a specific individual ..... much
like "Doc. Joe Shmoe, Brain Surgeon".
Believe it or not, agree with it or not, but the term is valid, though
highly misused in many circles.

John Waynes role was a story of one of the most daring and skillfull
Mastering of a ship and crew to outwit the British Navy and bring his
men home. If you have not seen it... you're missing one of the best sea
stories ever filmed IMO.

The only Flik flub I noticed was after loading his freighter with 130
cords of wood the draft hardly changed at all. The rest of the film is
totally right on in every detail, unlike todays films. Take the Perfect
Storm for example I'm sure that had a tech directors with the titles of
Master Mariner that made real sailors look like idiots and retards.

What was the TPI and weight/cord?

otn

otnmbrd wrote:
What was the TPI and weight/cord?

Geez, OTN, don't add to the poor besotted wannabe's confusion by
throwing more nautical terminology at him.

Rick

Geeze Rick, For someone playing tugboat capt instead of being one you
have lots of room to talk right.

TPI = 1/35 (A x1/12) =A/420 where A is the
waterplane area for a particular draft in square feet.

The ship was approx 250 foot est 300-500 tons empty.
A cord of Oak weighs 2 tons.

Thats 260 tons cargo shipped aboard.

Like I said a flik flub but no the less a good story.

Jeff your the wannabe..... know it all..... smart lipped..tugboat
trash.


Joe
USMM Master # 607529

On 29 Dec 2004 08:35:14 -0800, "Joe" wrote
this crap:

Was on TV last night.

It's one of John Waynes best flicks ever, even if he plays a German
Merchant Marine Master.


John Waynes role was a story of one of the most daring and skillfull
Mastering of a ship and crew to outwit the British Navy and bring his
men home. If you have not seen it... you're missing one of the best sea
stories ever filmed IMO.


It's not as good as Pirates of the Caribbean.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Can you also calculate the metacentric radius?

Amen

BC

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Geeze Rick, For someone playing tugboat capt instead of being one you
have lots of room to talk right.

TPI = 1/35 (A x1/12) =A/420 where A is the
waterplane area for a particular draft in square feet.

The ship was approx 250 foot est 300-500 tons empty.
A cord of Oak weighs 2 tons.

Thats 260 tons cargo shipped aboard.

Like I said a flik flub but no the less a good story.

Jeff your the wannabe..... know it all..... smart lipped..tugboat
trash.


Joe
USMM Master # 607529

Can Jesus walk on water?

Joe

Amen!

BC

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Can Jesus walk on water?

Joe

Joe wrote:
Geeze Rick, For someone playing tugboat capt instead of being one you
have lots of room to talk right.

Bwahahahahah ... After 7 years of owning and operating my own tug I sold
it last month and now run a 35m 6000 hp yacht (jetboat) in Florida.
Tugboat trash no more G

TPI = 1/35 (A x1/12) =A/420 where A is the
waterplane area for a particular draft in square feet.

Ain't Google great?

Jeff your the wannabe..... know it all..... smart lipped..tugboat

I've known and sailed with quite a few Master Mariners, and Joe, you
will never have the horsepower, the skills, or the attitude to hold that
honorarium ... it is one that is earned. Come back when you have a real
license and a cv to back it up. In the meantime try and show some
respect to real master mariners, like Otn, who seem to make you so
jealous.

Rick
USCG Master
USCG Chief Engineer Steam/Motor/Gas Turbine

Are you a chauffeur for some rich guy?

BC

"Jetcap" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:
Geeze Rick, For someone playing tugboat capt instead of being one you
have lots of room to talk right.

Bwahahahahah ... After 7 years of owning and operating my own tug I sold
it last month and now run a 35m 6000 hp yacht (jetboat) in Florida.
Tugboat trash no more G

TPI = 1/35 (A x1/12) =A/420 where A is the
waterplane area for a particular draft in square feet.

Ain't Google great?

Jeff your the wannabe..... know it all..... smart lipped..tugboat

I've known and sailed with quite a few Master Mariners, and Joe, you
will never have the horsepower, the skills, or the attitude to hold that
honorarium ... it is one that is earned. Come back when you have a real
license and a cv to back it up. In the meantime try and show some
respect to real master mariners, like Otn, who seem to make you so
jealous.

Rick
USCG Master
USCG Chief Engineer Steam/Motor/Gas Turbine

Bob Crantz wrote:
Are you a chauffeur for some rich guy?

Yes, indeed.

Rick

First off Rick I have mucho respect for otm, who said I did not?

2nd your ol wore out tug run up and down the marina towing nothing.

3rd nothing worse than being a gofer for some rich snob, thats gotta be
the worst job on the sea.
4th Ive ran tugs over 10,000 hp.

Whats you ticket number?

Joe

Joe wrote:
First off Rick I have mucho respect for otm, who said I did not?
Your attitude toward real mariners.

2nd your ol wore out tug run up and down the marina towing nothing.
Yup, it was a magnificent yacht conversion. It has been many years since
my licenses were so small the only work I could find was on tugs.

3rd nothing worse than being a gofer for some rich snob, thats gotta be
the worst job on the sea.
One you will never be qualified or fit to perform ... bwahahahahaha

4th Ive ran tugs over 10,000 hp.
Aground probably, if they ever let you touch the wheel.

Whats you ticket number?
What's it to you?

Rick

WTF? What attitude towards real mariners are you talking about? Guess
your another self titled Master Mariner right?

And yeah I've ran aground a few time, when you have over a millions
miles under various keel running every port and river on the Gulf Coast
you will run aground many times. You telling me you have never run
aground chief?

I just have a friend up at the USCG office in Houston who can tell me
if your full of **** or not as to holding a Master ticket.

If you have one then more power to you, congrats, ect..

And BTW I got the hell out of the Marine transport business because I
found a way to make in a month what I was paid a year running supply
vessels. I may get back into it some day but as an owner not an
operator.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Geeze Rick, For someone playing tugboat capt instead of being one you
have lots of room to talk right.

TPI = 1/35 (A x1/12) =A/420 where A is the
waterplane area for a particular draft in square feet.

The ship was approx 250 foot est 300-500 tons empty.
A cord of Oak weighs 2 tons.

Thats 260 tons cargo shipped aboard.

Like I said a flik flub but no the less a good story.

Jeff your the wannabe..... know it all..... smart lipped..tugboat
trash.


Joe
USMM Master # 607529


Just for the fun of it, pick a beam you consider consistent with the
length you give (ignore hull shape, we'll consider her a boxy old tub),
and using your formula and weight loaded, see what you get for change of
draft.

45 foot beam it is. What do you get as a change in draft?
And is she sitting below her Pilsom mark?

Joe

Shall we consider LCF and VCB?

And we are talking long tons right? Since it is lumber.
Salt water right?

Joe

Yacht Conversion, Tugs unless repowered/geared if not towing or pushing
are huge waste of money. The engine room takes up way to much space,
ect....was your wood or steel?

Only ones worth saving IMO are the ol triple expansion steam powered or
older.

That being said... I still love the looks and lines of old tugs and
I'm glad people keep them floating.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Yacht Conversion, Tugs unless repowered/geared if not towing or pushing
are huge waste of money. The engine room takes up way to much space,
ect....was your wood or steel?

Wood boat, 65 feet. Enterprise DMG-6, 400 rpm max, direct reversing, air
start. Next best thing to recip steam. It would be a crime to replace
that engine with a screaming little whiner.

You don't convert tugs for reasons of economy.

That being said... I still love the looks and lines of old tugs and
I'm glad people keep them floating.

Puget Sound (where the boat now lives) is the center of the universe for
restored tugs. The new owner will take it back to the Bay Area where it
was built.

Rick

Due to the shipyards in the area?

Joe

Joe wrote:
Due to the shipyards in the area?
Due to the number of classic tugs that have survived. The Pacific
Northwest has had a very healthy coastal and deepsea towing industry for
generations and the wood boats have always been well built of local
timber and cared for by a large number of wood boat craftsmen. During
WW2 there were hundreds of wooden boats built in the region and many of
them are still working today in towing and the fishing industry.

They make magnificent conversions and are very comfortable in the kind
of weather we get. There are a number of small yards which have been
doing woodboat work for generations so, yes, the availability of yards
contributes to the success of the conversions and long life of the boats
but is not by any means the reason there are so many. There just seems
to be a lot of people with the money and sentimentality to keep the
beautiful old boats alive.

Rick

Thanks for the heads up, Joe. I have seen it, long ago. Will look
for it.

Scotty

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Was on TV last night.

It's one of John Waynes best flicks ever, even if he plays a German
Merchant Marine Master.

As the Capt. of his ship he signed his logs with the title of
"Master"
not Master Mariner. The term Master Mariner is a made up term that
no
one should ever dare use... unless they want to spit in the eye of
Neptune himself..

John Waynes role was a story of one of the most daring and skillfull
Mastering of a ship and crew to outwit the British Navy and bring
his
men home. If you have not seen it... you're missing one of the best
sea
stories ever filmed IMO.

The only Flik flub I noticed was after loading his freighter with
130
cords of wood the draft hardly changed at all. The rest of the film
is
totally right on in every detail, unlike todays films. Take the
Perfect
Storm for example I'm sure that had a tech directors with the titles
of
Master Mariner that made real sailors look like idiots and retards.

The Sea Chase was on TCM.... perhaps they will re-run it Scotty if
you
havent seen it, and since you have never seen The Wake of the Red
Witch, there is a good chance you have not seen Sea Chase.
**** a 4 star Movie

Joe

It will never equal "The Sands of Iwo Jima". Did you realize the Japs
actually came out of the volcano in the real battle? Yes, they were true
demons sent by Satan, but John Wayne, John Agar and Forrest Tucker wiped
them out! Praise!

Glory!
Bob Crantz
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the heads up, Joe. I have seen it, long ago. Will look
for it.

Scotty

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Was on TV last night.

It's one of John Waynes best flicks ever, even if he plays a German
Merchant Marine Master.

As the Capt. of his ship he signed his logs with the title of
"Master"
not Master Mariner. The term Master Mariner is a made up term that
no
one should ever dare use... unless they want to spit in the eye of
Neptune himself..

John Waynes role was a story of one of the most daring and skillfull
Mastering of a ship and crew to outwit the British Navy and bring
his
men home. If you have not seen it... you're missing one of the best
sea
stories ever filmed IMO.

The only Flik flub I noticed was after loading his freighter with
130
cords of wood the draft hardly changed at all. The rest of the film
is
totally right on in every detail, unlike todays films. Take the
Perfect
Storm for example I'm sure that had a tech directors with the titles
of
Master Mariner that made real sailors look like idiots and retards.

The Sea Chase was on TCM.... perhaps they will re-run it Scotty if
you
havent seen it, and since you have never seen The Wake of the Red
Witch, there is a good chance you have not seen Sea Chase.
**** a 4 star Movie

Joe

Uhhhh. John Wayne was killed in the sands of Iwo Jima.

Joe

No **** Sherlock, We are talking about stories, films ect.
Please try to follow along Bob.

As films goes having the Hero die sucks IMO.
You should know about films that suck... right Bob?

Joe

wrote ...

Joe... John Wayne was a ****ing actor in a ****ing movie!

BBob


John Wayne was never in a porno movie, you heathen.

God bless John Wayne and the USA!

Scotty

Joe wrote:
Shall we consider LCF and VCB?

And we are talking long tons right? Since it is lumber.
Salt water right?

Joe

G We're only interested in how much the ship will sink bodily.
Long tons are always used (unless he's using metric, but then it
wouldn't be TPI) and yes it's salt water.
Using your numbers I get only a small change, but I'm still waiting to
hear what you get, since I asked the question.

otn

Capt. Neal® wrote:
What's any of this have to do with sailing?

More than most of your antisocial, bigoted vomitus.

Rick

Joe wrote:

3rd nothing worse than being a gofer for some rich snob, thats gotta be
the worst job on the sea.

Oh, yeah .. it's simply awful to have to live in a floating palace and
having to deal with wine merchants, a chef and a stewardess. Not to
mention the agony of having to find new places in the world to take the
boat so the very un-snobby owners can fly in for a few weeks every year.

I'm sure there is no way it compares with the joy of loading a mud boat
with pipe and hanging around an oil rig in a swamp.

Rick

Are you on the boat 24/7? Any pics of the yacht?

Scotty

"Jetcap" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:

3rd nothing worse than being a gofer for some rich snob, thats
gotta be
the worst job on the sea.

Oh, yeah .. it's simply awful to have to live in a floating palace
and
having to deal with wine merchants, a chef and a stewardess. Not to
mention the agony of having to find new places in the world to take
the
boat so the very un-snobby owners can fly in for a few weeks every
year.

I'm sure there is no way it compares with the joy of loading a mud
boat
with pipe and hanging around an oil rig in a swamp.

Rick

But what about LCB & VCB?

The freighter was a stern engine room scamp with center and forward
cargo holds.

Shall we just say that she will load level?

Joe

You would think a Master Mariner like you, from the golden age of
sailing would know exactly what this has to do with sailing.

Just how are you going to know how much cargo you can load when you
get your unlimited Master Mariner Sailing endorsement?
Would you care to take a shot at the answer?

Joe

When the owner is aboard whos word is law?

Perhaps you are one of the lucky ones that found a dream job, but most
I have known that run yachts wear out knee pads and are sniveling yes
men.

I have ran a few supply boats with mud and cement tanks but all the
oilfield work was offshore not around any swamp.

My favorate job was a 120 ft crewboat just my wife and I, working it
out of Port Mansfield TX in some of the best fishing grounds in the
gulf. We had that contract for 3 years. The rig was 10 miles off the
beach and we ran grocerys once a week the rest of the time we hung out
fishing exploring N.& S. padre island enjoying the tropical paradise.
We had a deck hand for a while but I found out he was stealing from the
local store so I sent him packing. Never needed a replacement. What a
great town, population about 80, most worked as fishing guides. 2 great
bars, and one store. And I was making the owner about 2K a day profit.
One year Terry and I worked 362 days strait. both getting Capt. Wages.

Then there was the Point T, a 185 ft brand spanking new Halter buildt
standby boat working for Mobil. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off in HI 386. We
would shuttle cargo and people 1 hour in the AM 1 in the PM and that
was it, rest of the time spent fishing, reading , playing pool,
reading, ect. We had a crew of 4 and a walk in freezer and cooler on
the boat. We would bring in around 1000 to 1800 pounds of RedSnapper
and Grouper ever time we hit the dock, Nice to get a 1500 cash tax free
bonus ever two weeks for fishing, only thing that sucked was the boat
had 16 149 detroits and was a bit underpowered IMO.
We had a 12 71 powering the fire fighting nozzel.

A couple years in the Bay of De Campechi was wonderful, trips to
Scotland, Ireland, Ivory Coast, towing semi's.

I enjoyed the work myself but the money was just not there. The only
way to get ahead in the oilfield is by owning the boat.

And I decided I had enough of going where & when other people told me
to go. The only one's that make the real money in the maritime
industry are pilots and some un-limited masters that have 20+ years
with the same union/company. My uncle Art ran a super tanker for
Exxon... worked 6 mo on 6 mo off and made around 320K a year back in
the 1980's.
And to be a pilot you have to be born into the biz.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message oups.com...
You would think a Master Mariner like you, from the golden age of
sailing would know exactly what this has to do with sailing.

Just how are you going to know how much cargo you can load when you
get your unlimited Master Mariner Sailing endorsement?
Would you care to take a shot at the answer?

Joe

How much cargo is limited by the volume of the cargo that can
fit in the hold or on deck if it should happen to be deck cargo.

How much weight of cargo is limited to the stability requirements
of the vessel combined with the safe waterline level as shown
by the Plimsole marks. Heavy cargo must be carried low so as
to not adversely affect the center of gravity of the vessel so
it becomes unstable.

CN

We are waiting on Otm to tell us weather we should consider LCB & VCG.
If we are to assume the TPI on just a square box loading flat then it
will not matter.

Joe

Joe wrote:
But what about LCB & VCB?

The freighter was a stern engine room scamp with center and forward
cargo holds.

Shall we just say that she will load level?

Joe

The question was about TPI which meant we were only concerned with
"bodily" sinkage, not trim.
One factor to consider is that since this was to be fuel and the ship
was a midship house freighter, the Captain would probably load it close
to the midships area, so there would be little affect on trim.
In truth, the question was bogus.
Without the Hydrostatic curves/tables,deadweight scales and knowing what
the draft was, prior to loading the wood (wet or dry?)for the particular
ship in question we really couldn't give an accurate answer.
However, as a "fun" exercise, if we took the formula you gave TPI=AWP/420
TPI= 250x45/420=26.8 tons to submerge 1"
Total fuel loaded was 260 tons
Total bodily sinkage= 260/26.8= 9.7"
Obviously, this is bogus, since we know the ship is not a box, but if
you want, reduce the AWP by 1/2 and see what you get.
The main point was/is that 260 tons is not really all that much weight
added,. for a ship.
The other possible problem in looking at your original statement was
that you stated the vessel tonnage as between 300-500. What tonnage were
you estimating? If this was gross or net it didn't give an indication as
to weights and is probably low, anyway.

otn

Neal Warren has described himself, in so many words, as a pedophile. Would
you expect anything less on other subjects?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jetcap" wrote in message
...
Capt. Neal® wrote:
What's any of this have to do with sailing?

More than most of your antisocial, bigoted vomitus.

Rick