oh i see you're a stickler for minor details. g

i can't figure out the context of your statement.
forgive my ignorance, but i don't recall the inquistion directly reaching
the mid east.
islamic culture was primarily driven out of spain somewhere around the time
of that great sailor, Chris C.
(an italian, by the way)

if you're referring to the current and ongoing inquistion...........well now
i get it.

gf.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:22:35 -0500, DSK said:

No notable event in almost two thousand years? Isn't this leaving out a
good bit?

You mean inconsequential things like the Inquisition?

That oughta get Vito going.

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

But you never will be in my position, Donal.

Correct.


You're Irish, I recall?

Your recollection is correct.

And you're living in England, a refugee from your homeland surrounded
by the very people who opressed your country for hundreds of years.

I admire your courage! If I had your ignorance I'd be afraid to display
it
in public.

Don't be so modest! You've proven many times that ignorance has not
deterred you from posting here.

If you knew anything at all about history, then you would know that the
people who surround me were as oppressed as the Irish were.

I do seem to be missing that bit of history. Can you point me to
reference material showing that the native Irish invaded, conquered and
confiscated most/all of the land comprising England any time in the
last thousand years or so? That they created landholdings, nobility,
built castles and treated the natural resources as their own?

You have purposely misunderstood my statement. The reality is that it was
not the "English" who conquered Ireland. When Ireland was invaded, England
didn't exist.

The invaders were rich men who could maintain armies. One of the worst
periods of land loss was during the Norman invasion. The Normans were
French.





No, I didn't think you could. Therefore my point stands and you're
trying to slide off - again.

Your question is utterly irrelevant. The "English" didn't invade Ireland.



Coffin boats
sailed from England and Wales, as well as Ireland.

Also, if you knew anything at all about the Internet, then you'd be able
to
figure out that I don't occupy a subservient position here.

Ah, sorry, didn't realise you were the Queen of England posting via a
sockpuppet. My apologies, your Highness. How are your corgies?

I'm not subservient to the Queen. Nowadays, nobody is.



That's sad. How do you cope with living and working with your
opressors, those who stole the land from your ancestors?

If you knew anything at all about history, then you would realise that
most
of the English were as oppressed as the Irish. It wasn't about
nationality - it was about social standing.

Irrelevant. We also seem to have strayed from the original point, but
that's standard with you it seems. To recap, you seem to think that I
am the possessor of stolen wealth in the form of land in Australia. At
the same time, you are benefiting from the country that oppressed and
exploited your fellow countrymen, but seem to feel no shame. Shrug.

That is really weird logic. You think that I shouldn't get any benefit from
the English because they benefited from my country???

Don't you think that I deserve some recompense?


Or were you
one of the Irish who sold their birthright to their English masters
and
became their running dogs? I suppose that might explain why you, as an
Irishman, doesn't live in Ireland.

.... And you don't live in England because your ancestor was a
criminal??????

Alas, I can't claim that distinction. Keep guessing. The answer is
amusing.

Go on, entertain us!



Can I take your lack of denial to the above as a tacit admission that
perhaps I've hit a little too close to the mark? Pity if so - hypocrisy
is always so interesting to dissect.

In some ways you are close to the mark.

I was brought up in a very nationalistic environment. However, I also saw
that violence was not the answer. In fact, violence is valid up to a
certain point. Once civil liberties are available to all, then violence
only serves to create more violence.






I should have realised that I was ethnically inferior to you.

Are you? How do you work that out?

You sound superior. You seem to be very intelligent, and I'm Irish.

Keep working on that inferiority complex, lad. Your seemingly innate
racism/ethnic issues could do with some exorcising as well.


How do you cope with women who are more intelligent than you?


I employ them.

What do you do with them?

The first one I met, I married. That was 29 years ago now.



The second
one is the godmother of my 2 daughters. The others - 2 of them I go
sailing with quite regularly. You see, I don't need to establish a
dominant power position (for example, employer-employee) to feel
comfortable in the company of women smarter than myself. I'm sad for
you that you can't say the same.

I agree that you don't need to establish a dominant power position with
women. Some men prefer dominant women. Clearly, you fall into that
category.






Regards


Donal
--

So if everyone is from somewhere else, and we all go back to where we came
from, would the world be any better?
Or any different?

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote
Donal wrote:
Quite correct, Neal! Especially in Australia - where the land has all
been
stolen from the (ab)original owners.

Same in America... including South America. Same in much of Europe too,
especially those islands sticking out at the top.

And in Israel .... and the theft is still proceding.

In article ,
katysails wrote:
So if everyone is from somewhere else, and we all go back to where we came
from, would the world be any better?
Or any different?

Well, it would clean out a lot of the white trash...

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

everyone is from somewhere else

different: yeah of course.
better: not in my view

if this were a historical preservation thesis: you would be asked: to what
period do we return to.
there-in exists the impossiblity of an answer.

gf.

"katysails" wrote in message
...
So if everyone is from somewhere else, and we all go back to where we came
from, would the world be any better?
Or any different?

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote
Donal wrote:
Quite correct, Neal! Especially in Australia - where the land has
all
been
stolen from the (ab)original owners.

Same in America... including South America. Same in much of Europe too,
especially those islands sticking out at the top.

And in Israel .... and the theft is still proceding.

got it.

gf.


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:14:25 -0500, "gonefishiing" said:

i can't figure out the context of your statement.
forgive my ignorance, but i don't recall the inquistion directly reaching
the mid east.
islamic culture was primarily driven out of spain somewhere around the
time
of that great sailor,

The Inquisition was a significant factor in dispersing throughout Europe
Jews whose ancestors had originally fled from Palestine.

In actuality, the Normans were really Brits who had been previously driven
out of Great Britain to France and then decided to return and drive out the
Saxons, who were originally Germanic...

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

But you never will be in my position, Donal.

Correct.


You're Irish, I recall?

Your recollection is correct.

And you're living in England, a refugee from your homeland surrounded
by the very people who opressed your country for hundreds of years.

I admire your courage! If I had your ignorance I'd be afraid to
display
it
in public.

Don't be so modest! You've proven many times that ignorance has not
deterred you from posting here.

If you knew anything at all about history, then you would know that the
people who surround me were as oppressed as the Irish were.

I do seem to be missing that bit of history. Can you point me to
reference material showing that the native Irish invaded, conquered and
confiscated most/all of the land comprising England any time in the
last thousand years or so? That they created landholdings, nobility,
built castles and treated the natural resources as their own?

You have purposely misunderstood my statement. The reality is that it was
not the "English" who conquered Ireland. When Ireland was invaded,
England
didn't exist.

The invaders were rich men who could maintain armies. One of the worst
periods of land loss was during the Norman invasion. The Normans were
French.





No, I didn't think you could. Therefore my point stands and you're
trying to slide off - again.

Your question is utterly irrelevant. The "English" didn't invade Ireland.



Coffin boats
sailed from England and Wales, as well as Ireland.

Also, if you knew anything at all about the Internet, then you'd be
able
to
figure out that I don't occupy a subservient position here.

Ah, sorry, didn't realise you were the Queen of England posting via a
sockpuppet. My apologies, your Highness. How are your corgies?

I'm not subservient to the Queen. Nowadays, nobody is.



That's sad. How do you cope with living and working with your
opressors, those who stole the land from your ancestors?

If you knew anything at all about history, then you would realise that
most
of the English were as oppressed as the Irish. It wasn't about
nationality - it was about social standing.

Irrelevant. We also seem to have strayed from the original point, but
that's standard with you it seems. To recap, you seem to think that I
am the possessor of stolen wealth in the form of land in Australia. At
the same time, you are benefiting from the country that oppressed and
exploited your fellow countrymen, but seem to feel no shame. Shrug.

That is really weird logic. You think that I shouldn't get any benefit
from
the English because they benefited from my country???

Don't you think that I deserve some recompense?


Or were you
one of the Irish who sold their birthright to their English masters
and
became their running dogs? I suppose that might explain why you, as
an
Irishman, doesn't live in Ireland.

.... And you don't live in England because your ancestor was a
criminal??????

Alas, I can't claim that distinction. Keep guessing. The answer is
amusing.

Go on, entertain us!



Can I take your lack of denial to the above as a tacit admission that
perhaps I've hit a little too close to the mark? Pity if so - hypocrisy
is always so interesting to dissect.

In some ways you are close to the mark.

I was brought up in a very nationalistic environment. However, I also
saw
that violence was not the answer. In fact, violence is valid up to a
certain point. Once civil liberties are available to all, then violence
only serves to create more violence.






I should have realised that I was ethnically inferior to you.

Are you? How do you work that out?

You sound superior. You seem to be very intelligent, and I'm Irish.

Keep working on that inferiority complex, lad. Your seemingly innate
racism/ethnic issues could do with some exorcising as well.


How do you cope with women who are more intelligent than you?


I employ them.

What do you do with them?

The first one I met, I married. That was 29 years ago now.



The second
one is the godmother of my 2 daughters. The others - 2 of them I go
sailing with quite regularly. You see, I don't need to establish a
dominant power position (for example, employer-employee) to feel
comfortable in the company of women smarter than myself. I'm sad for
you that you can't say the same.

I agree that you don't need to establish a dominant power position with
women. Some men prefer dominant women. Clearly, you fall into that
category.






Regards


Donal
--

we'd all have to go back to Africa
Scout

"katysails" wrote in message
...
So if everyone is from somewhere else, and we all go back to where we came
from, would the world be any better?
Or any different?

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote
Donal wrote:
Quite correct, Neal! Especially in Australia - where the land has
all
been
stolen from the (ab)original owners.

Same in America... including South America. Same in much of Europe too,
especially those islands sticking out at the top.

And in Israel .... and the theft is still proceding.

Scout wrote:
we'd all have to go back to Africa

Nah, some of us would go back to Thal...

DSK

I've never been there.

Scotty

"Scout" wrote in message
...
we'd all have to go back to Africa
Scout

"katysails" wrote in message
...
So if everyone is from somewhere else, and we all go back to where
we came
from, would the world be any better?
Or any different?

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote
Donal wrote:
Quite correct, Neal! Especially in Australia - where the
land has
all
been
stolen from the (ab)original owners.

Same in America... including South America. Same in much of
Europe too,
especially those islands sticking out at the top.

And in Israel .... and the theft is still proceding.