Cdn ... my opinion, just another money grab.

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

"Gordon" wrote in message . ..
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

Do you have a right to go boating? If you need a license, the
government is changing it from a right to privilege. As soon as you
start licensing some activity as a privilege, a lot of due process
protections may go out the window.

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I'd take that bet on the safety gear starting with an offshore liferaft.

M.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
And yet, you're the only one here who has hit a charted rock a mile from
from your slip. Perhaps you should give the local Power Squadron a
call this winter.

In 10 years of sailing, day sailing and short cruises not ONE injury on
board.
NO DAMAGE to my boat beyond a torn sail. I carry more safety gear than
anyone
here and I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few who actually does MOB drills
each
season. I'm sure some folks here will claim otherwise, but you're all
full
of
sh*t.
And if Dave or GF would like to examine the keel of Alien, they won't
find
so
much as a scratch on the keel. Go look!!!

Bwahahahahahaha!

RB


Bob should have qualified that with "near shore" safety equipment, but he
will have a sat phone, which is, as we all know, an indispensable piece of
safety equipment!
John Cairns

"Gordon" wrote in message . ..
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

I am in canada and as some said you have to get a more or less useless
operator card for $20. Its better than nothing but not the big
breakthrough.

The goal must be to keep a certain kind of idiot of the water without
makeing other peoples hobbies difficult. Which unfortunately useually
fails as soon as politicians get their hands on it.

Matt

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:28:32 GMT, "Capt. Mooron"
said:

Bull****... I've hit charted rocks at 100 meters, 250 meters 500 meters
and
1000 meters from my dock.

Never hit any rocks... plenty of mud monsters though.

That's because the bottom of your bay is full of Loon ****!

CM

The way it works in the real world is this. Refer to the original posters
statement. Read Same. The part you snipped out for whatever reason. If you
have trouble understanding it ask the original poster. That would be
Knobspit. After you have thoroughly read and then understand the question
then join in the discussion. . . . .

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael wrote:
I'd take that bet on the safety gear starting with an offshore liferaft.

Are we going to go by weight, quantity, quality, or weight as a ratio
of boat weight?

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Neal speaks the truth in this case. I checked it out myself after many
years of giving him a hard time about having a license for a boat that never
left the dock. Checked with USCG Portland REC office. Even know the
original license was issued in New Orleans. However they should have,
Portland would have anyway, raised the 25GT for inspected to a higher level.
Not all USCG REC offices are equal and they often do things differently. Yep
he's a real licensed Captain with a renewed license.

M.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Well, here you would still have to fork out an extra $20 on top of
that....
for a card that proves nothing but the fact you paid $20.

CM

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Correction. Above and beyond my six-pak license I hold
a Master's license, Near Coastal 25GT.

CN


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Fight it Tooth and Nail if it comes your way Cappy!
It's a tax grab.... imagine a government that would require you to
have
this card despite your current 6-pak licence!! Lunacy!

CM



"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
It's just another liberal scheme to collect a tax disguised as
a license. Like when you register a boat. It costs more by the
foot yet it costs the same in time and paperwork to register a
dinghy that is six feet LOA as it does to register a motor yacht
that is two hundred feet LOA. Democrats seem to love any
scheme that penalizes those who have money. Liberalism is
all about taking money and rights away from those who have
it and giving it to those to lazy or inept to earn their own.

CN


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require
boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are
the
pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it
just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

Safe boating certificate is the legal way to go. If they state 'licenses' a
boater they assume a measure of responsibility having said the individual is
capable of a certain level of activity. By calling it a safe boating
certificate they only show the boater has been exposed to a 'level' of
knowledge, the state therefore assumes no legal responsibility.

"Captain Stan" wrote in message
om...
"No more Pony" wrote in message
ink.net...
In MD, it's not a license, it's a 'safe boating
certificate. It cannot be revoked.
it's an attempt to educate the boating public. It
is somewhat effective in that at least the hold
has been exposed to the basics.
S.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:55:42 GMT, "Ed C"
said:
:
: Did a license ever stop an accident on the
road?
:
: Prolly prevented a few. The reason for licensing
is so that the license can
: be revoked. So while the tests probably are
useless, the ability to revoke
: the license for, for example, boating under the
influence, can be
: meaningful.
:

I operate a private yacht charter business in Florida. I also have a
100 ton Masters License, and I have spent many years on the water,
watching people endanger themselves and everyone around them, simply
because they lack an understanding of some of the basic boating
concepts, such as the "rules of the road". It is commonly understood
that anyone having the financial wherewithal to buy a boat is
automatically a "boater". It is also commonly understood by the
professionals that getting in close proximity to one of these
"boaters" is a stroke of bad luck.
I don't know what would be covered in the licensing requirement in
your state, but if it at least provided SOME measure of intelligence
about how to operate safely, how to use a VHF radio, who has the
right of way under different circumstances, and the requirement to
avoid collisions, I would support it. If there is a way to control or
at least influence the amount of education/experience required to
obtain such a license, I would urge you to exercise such influence and
at least get a licensing requirement that makes sense.
Captain stan
Jaxcharter.com

Not sure about in the middle of the country but I don't think due process
counts when the USCG teams or customs inspectors board.

"Curtis CCR" wrote in message
om...
"Gordon" wrote in message
. ..
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the
pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

Do you have a right to go boating? If you need a license, the
government is changing it from a right to privilege. As soon as you
start licensing some activity as a privilege, a lot of due process
protections may go out the window.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. com...

"Michael" wrote in message
...

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
And yet, you're the only one here who has hit a charted rock a mile
from
from your slip. Perhaps you should give the local Power Squadron a
call this winter.

In 10 years of sailing, day sailing and short cruises not ONE injury on
board.
NO DAMAGE to my boat beyond a torn sail. I carry more safety gear than
anyone
here and I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few who actually does MOB
drills
each
season. I'm sure some folks here will claim otherwise, but you're all
full
of
sh*t.
And if Dave or GF would like to examine the keel of Alien, they won't
find
so
much as a scratch on the keel. Go look!!!

Bwahahahahahaha!

RB

I'd take that bet on the safety gear starting with an offshore liferaft.

M.

Bob should have qualified that with "near shore" safety equipment, but he
will have a sat phone, which is, as we all know, an indispensable piece of
safety equipment!
John Cairns

Which of couse would disqualify most of my 'safety' equipment LOL

M.

For issuing, not for 'not revoking.' I'm sure to get around the liability
they have some sort of escape clause otherwise the states would have been
sued out of existence long ago. Come to think of it not a bad idea they
serve no useful purpose anyway.

M.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:06:32 -0600, "Michael"
said:

Safe boating certificate is the legal way to go. If they state
'licenses' a
boater they assume a measure of responsibility having said the individual
is
capable of a certain level of activity. By calling it a safe boating
certificate they only show the boater has been exposed to a 'level' of
knowledge, the state therefore assumes no legal responsibility.

Nonsense. If you know of a case in which a state has been held liable for
not revoking a licensed driver's license, I'd like to know about it.

In article , OzOne wrote:
In Oz, power boat operators require a boating licence.
The funds fro this go toward providing better services, charting,
marking and bouyage as well as many other facilities which we sailors
benefit from without requiring such licence.

That would never happen here. The funds would go to church-based
anti-abortion organizations.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Michael wrote:
The way it works in the real world is this. Refer to the original posters
statement. Read Same. The part you snipped out for whatever reason. If you
have trouble understanding it ask the original poster. That would be
Knobspit. After you have thoroughly read and then understand the question
then join in the discussion. . . . .
Are we going to go by weight, quantity, quality, or weight as a ratio
of boat weight?

Answer the question you imbecile. Or, don't. It was a joke, which I
now know is beyond a fool such as yourself.

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

I never doubted that Michael... I stated that in Canada he would still be
required to pay the $20 for a Boat Operators Certificate.... inspite of
qualifications well beyond what the card calls for...... it's a tax grab up
here.


CM

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Neal speaks the truth in this case. I checked it out myself after many
years of giving him a hard time about having a license for a boat that
never
left the dock. Checked with USCG Portland REC office. Even know the
original license was issued in New Orleans. However they should have,
Portland would have anyway, raised the 25GT for inspected to a higher
level.
Not all USCG REC offices are equal and they often do things differently.
Yep
he's a real licensed Captain with a renewed license.

M.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Well, here you would still have to fork out an extra $20 on top of
that....
for a card that proves nothing but the fact you paid $20.

CM

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Correction. Above and beyond my six-pak license I hold
a Master's license, Near Coastal 25GT.

CN


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Fight it Tooth and Nail if it comes your way Cappy!
It's a tax grab.... imagine a government that would require you to
have
this card despite your current 6-pak licence!! Lunacy!

CM



"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
It's just another liberal scheme to collect a tax disguised as
a license. Like when you register a boat. It costs more by the
foot yet it costs the same in time and paperwork to register a
dinghy that is six feet LOA as it does to register a motor yacht
that is two hundred feet LOA. Democrats seem to love any
scheme that penalizes those who have money. Liberalism is
all about taking money and rights away from those who have
it and giving it to those to lazy or inept to earn their own.

CN


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require
boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are
the
pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it
just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov 2004 13:42:31 GMT, (Bobsprit) said:

It was a SOFT rock!!!

Bob, I sailed out of City Island for about 6 years before moving my
boat to
CT. You gotta be really careless to hit that rock.

Careless and stupid.

and lazy.

and a lubber.

and a ******.

and an idiot.

and stupid.

SV

"Bob**** the big fat LOSER" wrote ...

In 10 years of day sailing and short cruises bla bla bla
. I carry more safety gear than anyone


paranoia, the destroyia.

Ray

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Bull****... I've hit charted rocks at 100 meters, 250 meters 500
meters and
1000 meters from my dock.

2 Kinds of Sailors.... those that have hit rocks...and ****in'
Liars!

I've yet to hit a rock, and that's no lie.

Scotty

advance control courses? tee hee hee. Never took a driving course.

35 years,
1,700,000 miles, accident free.
Your turn.

Scotty



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses...
all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I
have no
tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM

In article ,
Scott Vernon wrote:
advance control courses? tee hee hee. Never took a driving course.

35 years,
1,700,000 miles, accident free.
Your turn.

Scotty

He was talking about a motor vehicle not a Barcalounger.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

You keep hitting yourself your never gonna git rid of that black eye or
those sour grapes.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael wrote:
The way it works in the real world is this. Refer to the original
posters
statement. Read Same. The part you snipped out for whatever reason. If
you
have trouble understanding it ask the original poster. That would be
Knobspit. After you have thoroughly read and then understand the
question
then join in the discussion. . . . .
Are we going to go by weight, quantity, quality, or weight as a ratio
of boat weight?

Answer the question you imbecile. Or, don't. It was a joke, which I
now know is beyond a fool such as yourself.

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Scott Vernon wrote:
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

Bull****... I've hit charted rocks at 100 meters, 250 meters 500

meters and

1000 meters from my dock.

2 Kinds of Sailors.... those that have hit rocks...and ****in'

Liars!

I've yet to hit a rock, and that's no lie.

Scotty



Have you ever seen a rock where you sail?

I've taken bottom a number of times, but I've never hit a rock. And we
have real rocks here in New England.

****in' Liar!

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

Bull****... I've hit charted rocks at 100 meters, 250 meters 500

meters and

1000 meters from my dock.

2 Kinds of Sailors.... those that have hit rocks...and ****in'

Liars!

I've yet to hit a rock, and that's no lie.

Scotty



Have you ever seen a rock where you sail?

I've taken bottom a number of times, but I've never hit a rock. And we
have real rocks here in New England.

****in' Liar!

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Bull****... I've hit charted rocks at 100 meters, 250 meters 500
meters and
1000 meters from my dock.

2 Kinds of Sailors.... those that have hit rocks...and ****in'
Liars!

I've yet to hit a rock, and that's no lie.

Scotty

Required and paid for by my employer due to self insured status
requirements.

One of the practical tests was to back an F150 Pick-Up slalom through 400
meters of pylons 20 meters apart at 80kph on glare ice... mirrors only....
the test course was established on Great Slave Lake in January.

You drive a friggin' transport Tractor Scotty..... on highways... even when
the weather turns bad you have the weight and friction area to overcome a
lot of conditions that would disable a regular car. You probably use a pry
bar to scrape the imports out of your grill at the end of the trip.

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
advance control courses? tee hee hee. Never took a driving course.

35 years,
1,700,000 miles, accident free.
Your turn.

Scotty



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses...
all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I
have no
tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM

BTW - Air Brake Cert, Class 1, and annual medicals to drive???

"Scott Vernon" wrote
advance control courses? tee hee hee. Never took a driving course.

35 years,
1,700,000 miles, accident free.
Your turn.

In article ,
Michael wrote:
You keep hitting yourself your never gonna git rid of that black eye or
those sour grapes.

Answer the question you imbecile. Or, don't. It was a joke, which I
now know is beyond a fool such as yourself.

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

So, what you're saying is that you're a humorless fool. Got it.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 18 Nov 2004 10:11:37 -0800, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

That's because Google works just like you, Jon. No thought--just knee-jerk
programmed answers.

I tried it on Yahoo search also. Looks like I'm not alone in thinking
Bush is an imbecile. Why don't you call me some more names Mr. Poodle.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Jeff Morris" wrote

I've yet to hit a rock, and that's no lie.

Scotty



Have you ever seen a rock where you sail?


yes, plenty. People pile them up on the shore to stem erosion.

Scotty

Good one, Dave.


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 10:11:37 -0800, (Jonathan
Ganz)
said:

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

That's because Google works just like you, Jon. No thought--just
knee-jerk
programmed answers.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote ...

One of the practical tests was to back an F150 Pick-Up slalom
through 400
meters of pylons 20 meters apart at 80kph on glare ice... mirrors
only....
the test course was established on Great Slave Lake in January.

How long was your trailer? We do that with 48'ers.


You drive a friggin' transport Tractor Scotty..... on highways...
even when
the weather turns bad you have the weight and friction area to
overcome a
lot of conditions that would disable a regular car. You probably use
a pry
bar to scrape the imports out of your grill at the end of the trip.

Only the ones with 'Kerry' bumper stickers.

Scotty



CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
advance control courses? tee hee hee. Never took a driving
course.

35 years,
1,700,000 miles, accident free.
Your turn.

Scotty



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control
courses...
all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't...
I
have no
tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
BTW - Air Brake Cert,

yes, written test, taken once, no course.


Class 1,

same as above.

and annual medicals to drive???

No.


Scotty.

BTW, I'm a pro, you're not. :p~

In article ,
Scott Vernon wrote:
Good one, Dave. You're as stupid as I am.


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 10:11:37 -0800, (Jonathan
Ganz)
said:

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

That's because Google works just like you, Jon. No thought--just
knee-jerk
programmed answers.






--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"General" Rule? "Ancient" Principle? "Government at any level has 'never'
been sued?' Not a devotee of Ayn Rand nor a polysci major are we?


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:12:28 -0600, "Michael"
said:

For issuing, not for 'not revoking.' I'm sure to get around the
liability
they have some sort of escape clause otherwise the states would have been
sued out of existence long ago.

IOW, you were indeed spouting nonsense having no basis whatsoever.

For future reference, the general rule is that governmental agencies
cannot
be sued without the government's consent. A very ancient principle known
as
"sovereign immunity."

Four More Years........Four More Years..........Four More Years.........We
imbecilic morons remembered SFO and thanks to genius's like you . . . .
..Four More Years......Four More Years. Bark at the moon! Woof Woof! Four
More Years........Four More Years..........Four More Years.........Four More
Years........Four More Years..........Four More Years.........Thought you
were leaving the country......did I hear the door slam yet?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 18 Nov 2004 10:11:37 -0800, (Jonathan
Ganz)
said:

By the way, when I typed in imbecile in Google, I got as the first
line, and I'm not making this up...

Also try: george bush imbecile

That's because Google works just like you, Jon. No thought--just
knee-jerk
programmed answers.

I tried it on Yahoo search also. Looks like I'm not alone in thinking
Bush is an imbecile. Why don't you call me some more names Mr. Poodle.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Capt. Mooron wrote:
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have no
tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM

so let's see...the politicos who dance to the beat of the insurance
companies, and the TV ads paid for by the insurance companies told you
that your insurance premiums would go down if you took a course or
three...and you believed them...

Insurance premiums...yah it's theft and it's legal
Sucks eh?

Just my opinion they should insure the driver not the car. After all the
tables are based on the drivers record are they not? Try not owning one at
all and then renting. When I do have occasion to need a vehicle my rates,
even with VISA backup are still $11 a day. With driver license insurance I
could cover any listed class of vehicle...

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Capt. Mooron wrote:
I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I have
no
tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM

so let's see...the politicos who dance to the beat of the insurance
companies, and the TV ads paid for by the insurance companies told you
that your insurance premiums would go down if you took a course or
three...and you believed them...

Insurance premiums...yah it's theft and it's legal
Sucks eh?

prodigal1 wrote:
Capt. Mooron wrote:

I have no less than 6 certified advance vehicle control courses... all
stated I would get a discount on insurance premiums... I don't... I
have no tickets, no record and no accidents for over 30 years.

CM


so let's see...the politicos who dance to the beat of the insurance
companies, and the TV ads paid for by the insurance companies told you
that your insurance premiums would go down if you took a course or
three...and you believed them...

Insurance premiums...yah it's theft and it's legal
Sucks eh?

I was turned down for a "course discount" because I was already getting
a "no accident" discount. Five years later I asked again and they
(Boat/US) gave me the discount, including 5 years of retroactive
discount, saying the original refusal had been a mistake!

"Jeff Morris" wrote

I was turned down for a "course discount" because I was already
getting
a "no accident" discount. Five years later I asked again and they
(Boat/US) gave me the discount, including 5 years of retroactive
discount, saying the original refusal had been a mistake!

What course?

Scotty

Scott Vernon wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote

I was turned down for a "course discount" because I was already

getting

a "no accident" discount. Five years later I asked again and they
(Boat/US) gave me the discount, including 5 years of retroactive
discount, saying the original refusal had been a mistake!


What course?

Scotty


Actually, this was the Online Boat/US course. IIRC, it took a very
short amount of time to pass the test - maybe an hour or two - assuming
you know it all!

"Dave" wrote in message

Nope. I lawyer with over 30 years of experience. Now why don't you tell us
your qualifications to tell us about the law.

Don't mess with this guy Michael..... after 30 years of chasing ambulances
he can most likely run rings around you.

CM