national security
 

Records to consider as charges of "lack of patriotism" and "soft on
defense" fly around this campaign season...


Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Go enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat
V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,
Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.


Republicans
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by
marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max
Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete six-year National Guard
assignment;
re-assigned from Texas to Alabama National Guard so he could campaign
for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failing to show up for required
medical exam and duties, was stripped of pilot status.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role
making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in
Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: US Navy 1958-81; Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL
for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits &Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't
shoot
back.)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

What does military record have to do with this?

What is Patriotism? Blind allegiance to the current regime? Allegiance to
the Constitution and princples of Liberty? Love of something?

What is soft on defense? Not bloating the military industrial complex?
Fighting to keep military bases open that should be closed?

99% of politicians are, by their nature, compromising liars. Being public
servants they should only earn $1.00 dollar a year in salary and voted out
of office every term.

I see Gephardt avoided VietNam just like Bush. Or is Bush as patriotic and
as hard on defense as Daschle?

Gilligan

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Records to consider as charges of "lack of patriotism" and "soft on
defense" fly around this campaign season...


Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Go enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with
Combat
V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,
Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star
and
Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam;
Bronze
Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18
Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by
Raoul
Wallenberg.


Republicans
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by
marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked
Max
Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete six-year National Guard
assignment;
re-assigned from Texas to Alabama National Guard so he could campaign

for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failing to show up for required
medical exam and duties, was stripped of pilot status.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role
making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in
Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: US Navy 1958-81; Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in
NFL
for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits &Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't
shoot
back.)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I guess that's up to the person who makes the choice. Personally, I would
prefer a politician to have actually experienced war before they go to it.
Sometimes, there are other considerations that out weigh that choice.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gilligan" wrote in message
ink.net...
What does military record have to do with this?

What is Patriotism? Blind allegiance to the current regime? Allegiance to
the Constitution and princples of Liberty? Love of something?

What is soft on defense? Not bloating the military industrial complex?
Fighting to keep military bases open that should be closed?

99% of politicians are, by their nature, compromising liars. Being public
servants they should only earn $1.00 dollar a year in salary and voted out
of office every term.

I see Gephardt avoided VietNam just like Bush. Or is Bush as patriotic and
as hard on defense as Daschle?

Gilligan

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Records to consider as charges of "lack of patriotism" and "soft on
defense" fly around this campaign season...


Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Go enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with
Combat
V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,
Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star
and
Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam;
Bronze
Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft
but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18
Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by
Raoul
Wallenberg.


Republicans
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by
marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked
Max
Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete six-year National Guard
assignment;
re-assigned from Texas to Alabama National Guard so he could campaign

for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failing to show up for
required
medical exam and duties, was stripped of pilot status.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role
making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in
Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: US Navy 1958-81; Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in
NFL
for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits &Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't
shoot
back.)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.

If this is an example of the veracity of your info, you've got problems.

Max

Here are the facts. I think you're the one with problems.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...ntondraft.html

You need to watch out that you don't froth at the mouth when you reguritate
your RNC diatribe.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft
but
received #311.

If this is an example of the veracity of your info, you've got problems.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft
but
received #311.

If this is an example of the veracity of your info, you've got problems.

Good man, Max.

Why don't you heap humiliation upon Jonathan by proving that you are
correct?



Regards


Donal
--

He's already heeping something else...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft
but
received #311.

If this is an example of the veracity of your info, you've got problems.

Good man, Max.

Why don't you heap humiliation upon Jonathan by proving that you are
correct?



Regards


Donal
--

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Here are the facts. I think you're the one with problems.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...ntondraft.html

You need to watch out that you don't froth at the mouth when you
reguritate
your RNC diatribe.

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger. He hasn't even denied it, even though some of
the ultra, ultra leftist 527 sites have purported something else.

Max

"Donal" wrote in message


Good man, Max.

Why don't you heap humiliation upon Jonathan by proving that you are
correct?

Humiliation is generally self-inflicted. No help needed. You, of all,
should know that from experience.

Max

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:26:46 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap:

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger. He hasn't even denied it, even though some of
the ultra, ultra leftist 527 sites have purported something else.


What do you think about Kerry's eight years AWOL?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Donal" wrote in message


Good man, Max.

Why don't you heap humiliation upon Jonathan by proving that you are
correct?

Humiliation is generally self-inflicted. No help needed. You, of all,
should know that from experience.


My experience of reading your posts told me that you would be unable to back
up your bravado.

It looks like I was right, eh? You can't prove that you were correct.

I agree that humiliation is generally self inflicted. Why do you seem to
enjoy it?

Regards


Donal
--

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Here are the facts. I think you're the one with problems.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...ntondraft.html

You need to watch out that you don't froth at the mouth when you
reguritate
your RNC diatribe.

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger.

Like Bush???

Maxcrap, I'm beginning to think that you are being deliberately stupid.


Regards


Donal
--

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Here are the facts. I think you're the one with problems.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...ntondraft.html

You need to watch out that you don't froth at the mouth when you
reguritate
your RNC diatribe.

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Is this English? What are you trying to say?

Clinton was a draft-dodger. He hasn't even denied it, even though some of
the ultra, ultra leftist 527 sites have purported something else.

Yes, he dodged the draft. So did Bush. The difference is that Clinton
admitted it.
Bush is the liar.

You have to think about it???

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Here are the facts. I think you're the one with problems.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...ntondraft.html

You need to watch out that you don't froth at the mouth when you
reguritate
your RNC diatribe.

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger.

Like Bush???

Maxcrap, I'm beginning to think that you are being deliberately stupid.


Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message

"Maxprop" wrote in message

"Donal" wrote in message


Good man, Max.

Why don't you heap humiliation upon Jonathan by proving that you are
correct?

Humiliation is generally self-inflicted. No help needed. You, of all,
should know that from experience.


My experience of reading your posts told me that you would be unable to
back
up your bravado.

It looks like I was right, eh? You can't prove that you were correct.

I agree that humiliation is generally self inflicted. Why do you seem to
enjoy it?

Regards

The header says Donal, but it sure sounds like Bobsprit.

Max

"Horvath" wrote in message


wrote this crap:

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger. He hasn't even denied it, even though some
of
the ultra, ultra leftist 527 sites have purported something else.


What do you think about Kerry's eight years AWOL?

I have no idea. If he'd sign a Standard Form 180 and release all of his
military records, perhaps then we'd all know what he was doing during those
years.

Max

"Donal" wrote in message

Like Bush???

Bush served in the military and received an honorable discharge. How, in
your perverse logic, do you consider that dodging the draft?

Did Bill Clinton serve in the military?

Maxcrap, I'm beginning to think that you are being deliberately stupid.

Do you honestly believe name-calling and an ad hominem attack constitute a
cogent argument or a valid debate? Frankly, I don't really give a rat's ass
what you think, for in this election I can do something which you cannot.
Vote.

Max

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Yes, he dodged the draft. So did Bush. The difference is that Clinton
admitted it.
Bush is the liar.

Bush served, flew, and received an honorable discharge. Are you accusing
the US armed services of lying?

Try as you might to defend Clinton on this issue, that dog won't hunt.

Max

And, if Bush would just tell us why he didn't show up for his physical and
where he was during his year-long absense, then perhaps we would know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Horvath" wrote in message


wrote this crap:

Bwahahahahahaha. I liberal 527 website! Who's frothing at the mouth
and
regurgitating?

Clinton was a draft-dodger. He hasn't even denied it, even though some
of
the ultra, ultra leftist 527 sites have purported something else.


What do you think about Kerry's eight years AWOL?

I have no idea. If he'd sign a Standard Form 180 and release all of his
military records, perhaps then we'd all know what he was doing during
those
years.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Donal" wrote in message

Like Bush???

Bush served in the military and received an honorable discharge. How, in
your perverse logic, do you consider that dodging the draft?

Did Bill Clinton serve in the military?

No, but he didn't lie about it either. He failed to show up for his physcial
even though he was given a direct order to do so.


Maxcrap, I'm beginning to think that you are being deliberately stupid.

Do you honestly believe name-calling and an ad hominem attack constitute a
cogent argument or a valid debate? Frankly, I don't really give a rat's
ass
what you think, for in this election I can do something which you cannot.
Vote.

Max

No. I'm accusing Bush of failing to tell us why he didn't show up for his
physical and why he disobeyed a direct order to do so. I'm accusing Bush of
lying about how he got into the ANG and how he got out.

Clinton lied about a blow job, not about the reasons for invading another
country.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Yes, he dodged the draft. So did Bush. The difference is that Clinton
admitted it.
Bush is the liar.

Bush served, flew, and received an honorable discharge. Are you accusing
the US armed services of lying?

Try as you might to defend Clinton on this issue, that dog won't hunt.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Donal" wrote in message

Like Bush???

Bush served in the military and received an honorable discharge. How, in
your perverse logic, do you consider that dodging the draft?

Perhaps we have been lied to on this side of the Atlantic. We've been
told that Bush avoided active duty by using family influence to get a
position in the National Guard. - and later he used the same influence to
avoid punishment for failing to complete his service.

In contrast, Kerry actually went to war in Vietnam.

It seems to me that, on one hand we have a corrupt coward, and on the other
hand we have an honest citizen who was willing to do his duty.


When the corrupt coward became Commander in Chief, he used his power to send
more honest citizens to their deaths in a foreign land.






Did Bill Clinton serve in the military?

Maxcrap, I'm beginning to think that you are being deliberately stupid.

Do you honestly believe name-calling and an ad hominem attack constitute a
cogent argument or a valid debate?

No, I don't.
I just couldn't resist it!!!! "Maxcrap" seemed so appropriate ....


Frankly, I don't really give a rat's ass
what you think, for in this election I can do something which you cannot.
Vote.

Will you use your vote wisely?



Regards


Donal
--

It seems to me that, on one hand we have a corrupt coward, and on the
other
hand we have an honest citizen who was willing to do his duty.


When the corrupt coward became Commander in Chief, he used his power to
send
more honest citizens to their deaths in a foreign land.

Now I thought you were going to call Kerry the corrupt coward. How silly of
me.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Donal" wrote in message

Like Bush???

Bush served in the military and received an honorable discharge. How, in
your perverse logic, do you consider that dodging the draft?

Perhaps we have been lied to on this side of the Atlantic. We've been
told that Bush avoided active duty by using family influence to get a
position in the National Guard. - and later he used the same influence to
avoid punishment for failing to complete his service.

In contrast, Kerry actually went to war in Vietnam.

It seems to me that, on one hand we have a corrupt coward, and on the
other
hand we have an honest citizen who was willing to do his duty.


When the corrupt coward became Commander in Chief, he used his power to
send
more honest citizens to their deaths in a foreign land.

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used his
family connections to get by, something that he's done his entire life. And
it is rather odd-maybe not, I'm sure the psychologists have something to
explain the phenomenom-that there are so many chickenhawks in the Bush
administration, then again, birds of a feather. BTW, chickenhawk, which is
also used as a definition for a homosexual pimp, is a person that is a
strong advocate of military action while never having served in the military
themselves. The few Republicans that have served in combat, guys like McCain
and Chuck Hagel, are fairly circumspect when advocating military action as
the first option in a political crisis.
John Cairns

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

It seems to me that, on one hand we have a corrupt coward, and on the
other
hand we have an honest citizen who was willing to do his duty.


When the corrupt coward became Commander in Chief, he used his power to
send
more honest citizens to their deaths in a foreign land.

Now I thought you were going to call Kerry the corrupt coward. How silly
of
me.

Yes, how silly of you. He must have been referring to Clinton.

Max

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or against.

Max

OzOne wrote in message

Interesting that you guys are debating history while your leader and
his Govt preside over pushing the country into horrendous debt.
revoking of personal freedom, heightened risk of terrorist attack and
looming high interest rates and reduction of services.

Interesting, perhaps, but this history debate was fostered by John F. Kerry
himself, touting his Vietnam War era service. Had he not referred to
himself as a war hero repeatedly, this issue might never have seen the light
of day.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation
and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or
against.

Max

Hmmm. Are you saying he didn't use his influence to get into the guard? I
don't have any evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am reasonably
sure that it will happen. Next thing you'll be telling us is that junior is
a self-made man. In any event, this guy characterizes Bush as a draft
dodger, and I don't think you can call him a liberal. Bottom line, when Bush
had an opportunity to prove his "bravery" or whatever else you might want to
call it, he declined.
http://tinylink.com/?CgYuoyN3JV

John Cairns

He was a war hero, while Bush remains a snivelling little boy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

OzOne wrote in message

Interesting that you guys are debating history while your leader and
his Govt preside over pushing the country into horrendous debt.
revoking of personal freedom, heightened risk of terrorist attack and
looming high interest rates and reduction of services.

Interesting, perhaps, but this history debate was fostered by John F.
Kerry
himself, touting his Vietnam War era service. Had he not referred to
himself as a war hero repeatedly, this issue might never have seen the
light
of day.

Max

It's a documented fact. Open your eyes.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation
and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or
against.

Max

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:42:39 +0100, "Donal"
wrote this crap:

In contrast, Kerry actually went to war in Vietnam.

It seems to me that, on one hand we have a corrupt coward, and on the other
hand we have an honest citizen who was willing to do his duty.


I guess you haven't heard of kerry's eight years of AWOL.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Donal" wrote
Perhaps we have been lied to on this side of the Atlantic. We've been
told that Bush avoided active duty by using family influence to get a
position in the National Guard.

I thot so too but my misconception was corrected. LBJ had the Texas draft
quota set so low that only Hispanics and poor whites had to go. Bush, a
wealthy playboy and town drunk, would never have been called - he joined the
NG on a lark to fly jet planes.



Did Bill Clinton serve in the military?

Yes, as CIC, just like Reagan (c:

OzOne wrote
Interesting that you guys are debating history while your leader and
his Govt preside over pushing the country into horrendous debt.
revoking of personal freedom, heightened risk of terrorist attack and
looming high interest rates and reduction of services.

Hell, that's the good news. You should see what he's done to our schools and
how our roads and highways are falling apart.

Any news about the EU putting So African type sanctions on Israel from Down
Under?

"John Cairns" wrote
Hmmm. Are you saying he didn't use his influence to get into the guard?
.....

Here's what I've been told. He didn't need the NG to dodge the draft - no
Texans of his social status were being drafted, nor did he need influence to
get into the Texas NG - they were advertising for college grads.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used
his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation
and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or
against.

Actually, Max, there is lots of evidence to prove that Kerry fought for his
country. There is also lots of evidence that proves that Bush did *not*
fight for his country.

Your ability to analyse evidence is very suspect indeed.

Bear in mind that there was almost no evidence at all to suggest that Saddam
had WMD.... and yet you swallowed the lies - hook, line and sinker.



Regards


Donal
--

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:11:23 GMT, "John Cairns"
wrote this crap:

Hmmm. Are you saying he didn't use his influence to get into the guard? I


I got into the guard, and I didn't have any family influence.


don't have any evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am reasonably
sure that it will happen. Next thing you'll be telling us is that junior is
a self-made man. In any event, this guy characterizes Bush as a draft
dodger, and I don't think you can call him a liberal. Bottom line, when Bush
had an opportunity to prove his "bravery" or whatever else you might want to
call it, he declined.


It takes a lot of guts to get into a jet, and fly off. Probably more
guts than cruising around in a stinkboat.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:11:23 GMT, "John Cairns"
wrote this crap:

Hmmm. Are you saying he didn't use his influence to get into the guard? I


I got into the guard, and I didn't have any family influence.

You can also get into gay bars without any influence.

It takes a lot of guts to get into a jet, and fly off. Probably more
guts than cruising around in a stinkboat.

Yeah, especially when they aren't x-raying the cargo.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"John Cairns" wrote in message

"Maxprop" wrote in message

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used
his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation
and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or
against.

Max

Hmmm. Are you saying he didn't use his influence to get into the guard?

Do you have evidence that he did? I'd be pleased to take a look at it, if
so. Or are you simply making assumptions based upon your prejudice?

I
don't have any evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am
reasonably
sure that it will happen.

I can provide concrete evidence that it will. I'll ask again--can you
provide ANY evidence that W used influence to get into the Guard (not that
getting into the Guard required any)?

Next thing you'll be telling us is that junior is
a self-made man. In any event, this guy characterizes Bush as a draft
dodger, and I don't think you can call him a liberal. Bottom line, when
Bush
had an opportunity to prove his "bravery" or whatever else you might want
to
call it, he declined.

Bravery? Lunacy is more like it. Were you around during Vietnam? If so
you'd realize it was no place to go with the intent of returning home alive
or even in one piece. Kerry was stupid to volunteer to go. The only
intelligence he displayed in the matter was using minor injuries to get his
ass outta there.

As for Bush, he WAS in the military, he DID fulfill his obligation, and he
DID receive an honorable discharge. Beyond that anything you and Mr. Ganz
contend about his service is mere speculation. To paraphrase Cuba Gooding,
Jr. in "Jerry McGuire": Show me the evidence!

Max

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message


It's a documented fact. Open your eyes.

How about you open my eyes for me, Jonny. Provide me with a source, and no,
your liberal 527 websites don't count. Give me a bona fide source proving
that Bush used family influence to get into the Air Guard.

Max

"Donal" wrote in message

"Maxprop" wrote in message

"John Cairns" wrote in message

I think to most intelligent folk it's patently obvious that Bush used
his
family connections to get by,

Actually, John, the truly intelligent realize it is mere speculation
and/or
folly to jump to such conclusions when there is no evidence for or
against.

Actually, Max, there is lots of evidence to prove that Kerry fought for
his
country. There is also lots of evidence that proves that Bush did *not*
fight for his country.

Actually, Donal, I've never questioned Kerry's service. And I never
disputed that Bush was never in combat or overseas. Which brings me to the
conclusion that you can't stay on topic for even a moment. Which generally
supports my conclusion about you: you can't debate. About time for
another ad hominem attack, boyo.

Max