I've been freshwater sailing half a dozen times (Lake Michigan and
smaller reservoirs), and every time I go, I get a step closer to
wanting a sailboat.

A friend has a 21' sloop (don't know the make) at a fair-sized
reservoir nearby, and we've been out on it several times, always had
fun. I have learned what I think are the basics about tacking,
jybing, reaching, etc. I believe I can safely handle a small
sailboat.

Here are some questions, and I thank you in advance for tolerating all
this newbie crap:

1) For someone with my limited level of expertise, what would you all
think is an appropriate "first boat"? I'm attracted to the idea of
one with a cabin and at least a little bunk space for the occasional
opportunity to spend a weekend on the water with the wife or a couple
kids.

2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing and about sailboats in
general (construction, amenities, etc.)? Any good books out there? I
have already read to shreds my copy of "Sailing on a Micro Budget".

3) As far as more advanced learning goes, what do you all think about
these sailing courses offered out of places like Florida. On the
internet, I've read about these week-long trips that leave Miami, sail
out to and around the Bahamas and back, purportedly to teach open
water sailing techniques. Has anyone here done this, and is it worth
it?

That's about it for now, but I'm sure I'll be back with even more
questions. Thanks for your help.

Mark

"Mark" wrote in message
om...
I've been freshwater sailing half a dozen times (Lake Michigan and
smaller reservoirs), and every time I go, I get a step closer to
wanting a sailboat.

It's a terrible disease with no known cure.

A friend has a 21' sloop (don't know the make) at a fair-sized
reservoir nearby, and we've been out on it several times, always had
fun. I have learned what I think are the basics about tacking,
jybing, reaching, etc. I believe I can safely handle a small
sailboat.

We all believe that. Some people are delusional.

Here are some questions, and I thank you in advance for tolerating all
this newbie crap:

1) For someone with my limited level of expertise, what would you all
think is an appropriate "first boat"? I'm attracted to the idea of
one with a cabin and at least a little bunk space for the occasional
opportunity to spend a weekend on the water with the wife or a couple
kids.

Something in the 25' range. There are lots to choose from. If you want
to gain a lot of knowledge about boats and have more time than money,
get one of the many plastic classics. You'll have to fix and update her, but
it'll be worth the effort. Actually, the more time than money is probably
not accurate. It's more like more time and more money.

2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing and about sailboats in
general (construction, amenities, etc.)? Any good books out there? I
have already read to shreds my copy of "Sailing on a Micro Budget".

I wouldn't bother too much with books unless you take a class. Any book
will give you the basics, but as I'm sure you've seen, sailing you learn a
lot
more, a lot faster.

3) As far as more advanced learning goes, what do you all think about
these sailing courses offered out of places like Florida. On the
internet, I've read about these week-long trips that leave Miami, sail
out to and around the Bahamas and back, purportedly to teach open
water sailing techniques. Has anyone here done this, and is it worth
it?

You'll love it. Go for it. My suggestion is have your wife and/or kids
take some classes also... separate from you. You don't want to be
out in it and not have someone capable of really helping. Also, the
self -confidence she'll, they'll get will be enourmous. You don't want
to have just one person on a boat who knows how to sail.

That's about it for now, but I'm sure I'll be back with even more
questions. Thanks for your help.

Don't worry, this thread will quickly turn into a flame war between
the various factions.

"Mark" wrote ...

1) For someone with my limited level of expertise, what would you
all
think is an appropriate "first boat"? I'm attracted to the idea of
one with a cabin and at least a little bunk space for the occasional
opportunity to spend a weekend on the water with the wife or a
couple
kids.

Where will you be sailing? You want a trailerable? Newbies should
stay under 30'.



2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who
wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing

your friend with the sloop? Hang at the local marina and bum some
rides.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

"Mark" wrote in message
om...
I've been freshwater sailing half a dozen times (Lake Michigan and
smaller reservoirs), and every time I go, I get a step closer to
wanting a sailboat.

A friend has a 21' sloop (don't know the make) at a fair-sized
reservoir nearby, and we've been out on it several times, always had
fun. I have learned what I think are the basics about tacking,
jybing, reaching, etc. I believe I can safely handle a small
sailboat.

Here are some questions, and I thank you in advance for tolerating all
this newbie crap:

3) As far as more advanced learning goes, what do you all think about
these sailing courses offered out of places like Florida. On the
internet, I've read about these week-long trips that leave Miami, sail
out to and around the Bahamas and back, purportedly to teach open
water sailing techniques. Has anyone here done this, and is it worth
it?

That's about it for now, but I'm sure I'll be back with even more
questions. Thanks for your help.

Mark

They might be a little advanced, but the "North U" book on sail trim is very
good. If you have someone willing to take you sailing, I wouldn't bother
taking lessons. You might consider the offshore training, will give you an
idea if that's the sort of sailing you might consider doing in the future,
without the expense of a boat purchase. If that sort of thing does interest
you you will be hooked, gaffed, landed, fileted and cooked for a meal
http://community.webshots.com/album/27256327hQBcZyRwQg
http://community.webshots.com/album/64719136UJnEWv
http://community.webshots.com/album/99268720rZrPdF
http://community.webshots.com/album/129572627BLfVvi
http://community.webshots.com/album/151748323ulmDJf

John Cairns

Mark wrote:
I've been freshwater sailing half a dozen times (Lake Michigan and
smaller reservoirs), and every time I go, I get a step closer to
wanting a sailboat.

"A step closer"???

If you don't already want a sailboat, then you will never capture the
passion. Forget it. Take up golf!

Just kidding.



A friend has a 21' sloop (don't know the make) at a fair-sized
reservoir nearby, and we've been out on it several times, always had
fun. I have learned what I think are the basics about tacking,
jybing, reaching, etc. I believe I can safely handle a small
sailboat.

Here are some questions, and I thank you in advance for tolerating all
this newbie crap:

1) For someone with my limited level of expertise, what would you all
think is an appropriate "first boat"? I'm attracted to the idea of
one with a cabin and at least a little bunk space for the occasional
opportunity to spend a weekend on the water with the wife or a couple
kids.

A cabin, even a small one, can be handy for lots of things other than
sleeping. Locked & rainproof stowage, a good place to put on sunscreen
or change into dry clothes, a porta-potty, etc etc.

As to the issue of "first boat" I'd really suggest starting out with
either 1- lessons in small tippy boats or 2- getting your own small
tippy boat. Basically, smaller boats are much more responsive and will
teach you a lot more about the physics of sailing than any amount of
study & practice on a bigger heavier boat.


2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing and about sailboats in
general (construction, amenities, etc.)? Any good books out there? I
have already read to shreds my copy of "Sailing on a Micro Budget".

Larry Brown? He's got the word all right. But IIRC he doesn't really
spend much time on "how to sail." A good book is "Learn To Sail The
Annapolis Way" by a guy named Barta. Another is the Glenans sailing
manual. Yet another is from the Time/Life sports series which I believe
is simply called "Sailing." Lots of good pictures in that one. I'd
suggest going to the local library and reading at least half the books
they have.

Boat constronstruction... Get Ian Nicholson's "Surveying Small Craft."
Nothing else compares.


3) As far as more advanced learning goes, what do you all think about
these sailing courses offered out of places like Florida.

Why go to that expense and trouble when you don't know anything about it
yet? Take the local Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power Squadron course,
mostly oriented for motorboats but the remember much of what you have to
learn is generalized for all boats.

Frankly, if you want to blow some money on a great sailing vacation, go
to the Bitter End Yacht Club. They can turn you loose in a variety of
boats in the near-perfect sailing environment. The level of skill you'll
be exposed to will run from fellow newbies to int'l stars & champions,
so you can learn a LOT. And you can relax every night.

Another goot option is Steve Colgate's sailing school in Florida. You
can start out learning to really sail (and you'd be amazed how many
"sailors" aren't very good at it) and then tackling the many tasks of
handling a bigger cruising boat, such as navigating & anchoring.

... On the
internet, I've read about these week-long trips that leave Miami, sail
out to and around the Bahamas and back, purportedly to teach open
water sailing techniques. Has anyone here done this, and is it worth
it?

IMHO, no. You're paying to be a tame deck (and likely galley) slave for
somebody who might not know much more than you, but has figured out how
to go cruising and have other people (you!) pay for it. Bareboat
chartering can be a lot of fun, once you've got a good enough handle on
how boats work. And the threshold isn't that high,


That's about it for now, but I'm sure I'll be back with even more
questions. Thanks for your help.

OK, good luck. We'll be waiting for you!

Reading and taking courses can get you through the winter and you'll be
ready to jumpt-start your sailing career come spring.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing and about sailboats in
general (construction, amenities, etc.)?

Racing will get you lots of time on the water and the opportunity to be
around other sailors. Look up the local yacht clubs on the web and look at
the schedule for racing. Then "walk the dock" with your sailing gloves and
shoes and find a boat that needs an extra body. They probably won't give
you much to do until you get some experience, and you may have to put up
with some screamers until you find a good, regular spot. But it's an
inexpensive way to get lots of time on the water.

Great suggestion!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Brien Alkire" wrote in message
...
2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing and about sailboats in
general (construction, amenities, etc.)?

Racing will get you lots of time on the water and the opportunity to be
around other sailors. Look up the local yacht clubs on the web and look
at
the schedule for racing. Then "walk the dock" with your sailing gloves
and
shoes and find a boat that needs an extra body. They probably won't give
you much to do until you get some experience, and you may have to put up
with some screamers until you find a good, regular spot. But it's an
inexpensive way to get lots of time on the water.

wrote:
..... a stinky trawler

That smell isn't the boat, it's your upper lip.

DSK

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
"Mark" wrote ...

1) For someone with my limited level of expertise, what would you
all
think is an appropriate "first boat"? I'm attracted to the idea of
one with a cabin and at least a little bunk space for the occasional
opportunity to spend a weekend on the water with the wife or a
couple
kids.

Where will you be sailing? You want a trailerable? Newbies should
stay under 30'.

I'll be sailing primarily on a large reservoir nearby. Trailerable
would be a big plus, obviously, but there are two or three marinas
where I could keep it in the water on an ongoing basis. There's also
a yacht club with a yard where I could bring it out at the end of each
sail.




2) Aside from OJT, what are some good resources for someone who
wants
to learn more about the mechanics of sailing

your friend with the sloop? Hang at the local marina and bum some
rides.

I have actually just spoken with another friend who (I just found out)
bought a 42' trimaran in the Gulf area, has brought it up the TimTom
waterway and is now beginning the long process of refitting it in dry
dock. It's basically gutted inside, but he has put a new motor in it
already.

I'm going to put some sweat equity into helping him fix it up so I get
to sail on it when he takes it back down to the Gulf. He has sailed
to the Bahamas a number of times himself, so he's someone I guess I
could learn a lot from (I learned all this between yesterday and
today!)

Thanks for your reply.

Mark wrote:
I'll be sailing primarily on a large reservoir nearby. Trailerable
would be a big plus, obviously, but there are two or three marinas
where I could keep it in the water on an ongoing basis. There's also
a yacht club with a yard where I could bring it out at the end of each
sail.

2 or 3 marinas plus a sailing club with a lift? Sounds like a pretty big
lake all right...


I have actually just spoken with another friend who (I just found out)
bought a 42' trimaran in the Gulf area, has brought it up the TimTom
waterway and is now beginning the long process of refitting it in dry
dock. It's basically gutted inside, but he has put a new motor in it
already.

I'm going to put some sweat equity into helping him fix it up so I get
to sail on it when he takes it back down to the Gulf. He has sailed
to the Bahamas a number of times himself, so he's someone I guess I
could learn a lot from (I learned all this between yesterday and
today!)

Sounds like a good plan, especially for winter. Part of learning about
boats is learning how to work on them. I assume the "fixing it up" is
going to include some fiberglass work, a very good skill to have....
just remember to take precautions because sanding dust, resin fumes, etc
etc, are not natural and can cause long term harm to the body. A lot of
people don't like to "waste" time or money on protective measures but it
should be considered part of doing the job.

One of the great things about sailing is that there is always more to learn.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King