Me, I'd have a custom, one-off boat built strip planked with glass
(West-like) over according to proven design. She's be small, but all the
mistakes would be yours, not someone else's. My preference would be Jack
Giles Virtue, or his slightly larger similar boat.

Jim Speer
(who actually sails a cape Dory Typhoon)


On 10/16/04 1:48 AM, in article , "Matt
O'Toole" wrote:

david wrote:

"NoName" wrote in message
...

david wrote in message
news:1097817919.838717@webserver...


interested in the collective thoughts of the group re latest
thoughts
on ---
for the blue water cruiser
snip

This site might be of interest

http://www.windpilot.com/en/Se/Yacht/detailen.html

Nigel


thanks for input - given me some ideas and info

i am going to sell up and go sailing - hence blue water designs and
issues.

i need something that is comfortable for me solo - and maybe some
crew or friends later.

it has raised issues of work, finance, repairs, maintenance, running
expenses etc etc

i do not have a lot of cash, but should be able to get into something
for up to AU$200K.

the beneteau thing came about as they are so much cheaper in USA than
in australia.- will check out listings in gibraltar and canaries.

they have some nice configurations 2 and 3 cabins with ensuits, centre
cockpit, cutter rig, 38 - 50 feet etc etc

other suggestions
morris - nice
mac - have not seen any

another option is to syndicate and go racing for a while - there are
some nice race boats on the market that could be fun.- but i am not
as young as i used to be.

Have a look at one of my favorites -- the Kelly-Peterson 44:

http://www.kp44.org/

They have a proven bluewater record, two cabins with ensuite heads, a dry
center
cockpit that's easily coverable, a real engine compartment, and adequate
storage
and tankage. The latter is very important in a long-range cruising boat, and
often overlooked. Most Petersons are selling for $70-130k US. The nicer ones
have usually been completely refitted, to where they're as good or better than
most newer boats. The later ones seem roomier, with slightly better
interiors.

OK, now that I've spilled the beans, everyone will want one, and I'll never be
able to afford one...

Some others to look at:

Similar to the Peterson, but much, much roomier, is a Maple Leaf 42. If
you're
lucky, you might even find a nice 48 for cheap.

If you're OK with a small boat, try a Bristol Channel Cutter:

http://www.samlmorse.com/Index-2.htm

I see used ones in the $80-90k US range. They're funky pirate ships, but
actually sail really well, have tons of storage, and are built like tanks. I
saw a magazine article not too long ago about sailing one around Cape Horn.
Many have actually done it.

Pacific Seacraft boats are also built like tanks, check out the 37 and 40
footers.

Contessas have been mentioned. They definately have a proven bluewater
record,
but are so dinky inside you'll go crazy. That BCC I just mentioned is
actually
a bigger boat inside than a Contessa 32.

Whatever your budget is, don't forget to add *a lot* over the cost of the boat
for fitting out, tweaking, and provisioning.

Getting back to your original question, there's no "best" construction. There
are good and bad boats made from every material and technique. Go with a
proven
design and make. Dealing with a known quantity is safer, easier, cheaper to
get
stuff for, and you'll have better resale value when you're done. In that
sense
a Beneteau might not be a bad choice. The Oceanis models seem to be a bit
heavier, more displacement for all your stuff and tankage.

Finally, if you want a fixer-upper, I bet there are plenty in Florida these
days!

Matt O.

jspeer wrote:

Me, I'd have a custom, one-off boat built strip planked with glass
(West-like) over according to proven design. She's be small, but all
the mistakes would be yours, not someone else's.

That's an appealing idea. I saw some interesting stuff (in the Gudgeon Bros.
book?) on fatigue for WEST-type boats, and it looks really good -- better than
just about anything but steel. Also, a strip planked inner layer makes for some
really nice interior trim!

But now that people are talking Morrises, if I had that kind of money I'd
probably just order up one of those...

My preference would
be Jack Giles Virtue, or his slightly larger similar boat.

I just Googled it -- never heard of it, and it looks interesting -- at least as
interesting as a Bristol Channel Cutter. BTW, the Canadian built BCC is
practically the same boat as the Sam Morse one, for a lot less money. I just
saw one on boats.com for under $70k.

However, I'm more in the "speed is safety" school -- I'd hate to be slopping
around in the Gulf Stream in a 5 knot boat. So within the realm of proven
seaworthy designs, I'd go as big as budget allows. I think the budget mentioned
allows a pretty nice 35-40'+. But maybe that's my lack of real bluewater
experience showing. :-)

Matt O.

However, I'm more in the "speed is safety" school -- I'd hate to be slopping
around in the Gulf Stream in a 5 knot boat. So within the realm of proven
seaworthy designs, I'd go as big as budget allows. I think the budget
mentioned
allows a pretty nice 35-40'+. But maybe that's my lack of real bluewater
experience showing. :-)

Matt O.

Fair enough, Matt, but consider:

If you're sailing a displacement boat, as most people would recommend for
blue water cruising, your 40-footer might have a waterline length of 30'; my
Giles Virtie will have a waterline length of about 19'. Roughly, hull speed
equals 1.3 times the the square root of waterline length of the displacement
vessel, so my hull speed is 5.7 knots, whereas yours is 7.1. Is that extra
1.4 knots really going to add all that much to your safety?

Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable
offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-)

Jim

On Friday 22 October 2004 1:58 am in uk.rec.sailing jspeer wrote:


Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable
offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-)


Oh dear - that old chestnut again.

Cruising cats do not get blown down.
Racing multihulls use the inherent stability of multihulls
to crowd on more sail, so they can have problems, but
cruising cats are more sensibly designed.

Several Prouts and several Wharrams have circumnavigated.

James Wharram has written an excellent paper on this, you
need to keep the centre of effort low and use sensible
amounts of sail. He also advocates sails with calibrated
strenth which will shred before tipping the boat in the
case of the sudden storm that tends to blow up out of
nowhere in the southern ocean while people are asleep B-).

Taking something like a Hobie offshore is, of course, a
rather bad idea - but you knew that already.


--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Chris Newport wrote:
On Friday 22 October 2004 1:58 am in uk.rec.sailing jspeer wrote:


Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been
comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as
right-side up:-)


Oh dear - that old chestnut again.

Cruising cats do not get blown down.
Racing multihulls use the inherent stability of multihulls
to crowd on more sail, so they can have problems, but
cruising cats are more sensibly designed.

Several Prouts and several Wharrams have circumnavigated.

James Wharram has written an excellent paper on this, you
need to keep the centre of effort low and use sensible
amounts of sail. He also advocates sails with calibrated
strenth which will shred before tipping the boat in the
case of the sudden storm that tends to blow up out of
nowhere in the southern ocean while people are asleep B-).

Taking something like a Hobie offshore is, of course, a
rather bad idea - but you knew that already.

While a catamaran has a better chance than a monohull of out-running extreme
weather, it's not the wind you have to worry about - it's the waves!

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...gue_waves.html

It looks like rogue waves are a lot more common than most of us have
believed.

While I'd be happy to sail a cat on coastal routes, I'd prefer a monohull
for ocean passages. Rolling a monohull is not uncommon (I know someone who's
done it). Successfully rolling a catamaran would, I imagine, be far less
common!

Pleasant dreams.

"Jason Keats" wrote in message
...

While a catamaran has a better chance than a monohull of out-running
extreme
weather, it's not the wind you have to worry about - it's the waves!

agree - one can always let some sheet out, reef the sails + other options
to allow for the wind, but what o you do for a 30 mt wave - i remember on my
second sydney to hobart (monohull) the wave height was incredibly scary -
surfing is no problem and a lot of fun, but race boats were and still are
constructed very lightly, coming down the other side with a huge thump
hoping the rigging and the boat would stay together thats scary

enjoyed ur links

david

"jspeer" wrote in message
...
Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable
offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-)

Jim

less chance of it sinking ? - unless you hole both hulls

david