Sailing Seminar Tips
 

Went to a seminar on singlehanding or single watchstanding safety. The
panel members have all solo circunavigated. Lots of good info but here are
three I wanted to sha

1) When securing the vang to the boom don't rely on just the under boom
fitting. Also pass a canvas or cloth strop from the end of the vang over the
boom, under the sail. This works unless you have a bolt rope. The idea is to
put the strain on the top of the boom and spread it out rather than on a
fitting underneath that will eventually break due to fatigue of metal.

2) Instead of relying on the single length tether on your safety harness put
one in the cockpit (two if the foreward one won't reach aft to the wind vane
etc., one by the vang, one by the stays'l and one by the jib/forestay and
anchor area plus one by the mast. Make each one the right length for what
you are doing. For example the one at the mast should be short, maybe a foot
to 18". Then use the regular one to get from spot to spot along the
jacklines. (side note ) I learned to run a second line from the upper end of
the bow pulpit up to just about elbow height on the lower shroud and then
down to the pushpit. Set so that boom and jib sheet etc. clear. When go
forward in rough seas you have deck jackline, toe rail, two lifelines (to
30" high) and this higher line so you are caught toe, above the knee and
just below the shoulder.

3) Running Rigging - As a rule of thumb figure they will last 30,000 nm. Cut
them at least 10' longer than normal. Then every 3,000 nm cut off a foot and
move everything along the route, through the blocks etc, to a new sport.
This keeps the line from wearing in only one spot as it lays in the sheaves.
Also means you don't have to end for end quite so much. That can be done at
15,000 nm at which point you reverse the procedure. So there's three good
ideas I came away with!

Michael

Went to a seminar on singlehanding


I hope you didn't go alone.

RB

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael
Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 4:08 AM
Subject: Sailing Seminar Tips

(snipped)


3) Running Rigging - As a rule of thumb figure they will last 30,000 nm.
Cut
them at least 10' longer than normal. Then every 3,000 nm cut off a foot
and
move everything along the route, through the blocks etc, to a new sport.
(snip)

Well, I don't think that is a good idea at all.
Have you considered the nuisance value of an extra 10' or so on every piece
of running rigging
cluttering up your cockpit and deck and impeding safe movement about
the vessel?
Also, if it is wire, it is going to overfill your winch drums and I would
not trust wire that has spent a considerable time lying tightly wound on a
drum, cut off from air circulation and probably retaining damp most of the
time.
The idea of moving the wire to a new spot is also flawed. A wire that has
lain in a tight curve on a sheave until its fatigue life approaches is not
going to be reliable if you move it to a new position and expect it to
undergo a new life cycle when you subject it to stress in a straight line. I
believe in keeping all running rigging as short as possible and then you
always know where to look for signs of fatigue, as it will always be the
part that goes over the sheave.
I also have doubts as to whether miles sailed is the right criterion for
rigging replacement.
Edgar

Edgar,

Loose line in the cockpit, to me, is the the biggest PITA I can think
of. On a halyard, though, The ends are only loose when setting sail and
taking them down. The rest of the time they are coiled and secured in
place. I see no problem with an extra three or four coils.and as you say
the wear is usually at the sheeve, about 10 to 18 inches from the end.
Cutting makes sense to me rather than turning end for end.

Sheets are another story. They are much more active lines and always
seem to be the line I'm standing on when trying to gather them up.
However, they are the easier line to inspect and turn end for end.

So, I use both methods.

Now, I'm more than welcome to any system to reduce replacement on my
Lazy Jacks!!!

Ole Thom

Ha HA LOL .. there were 30-40 of us all in our own little world plus one
moderator instructor

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Went to a seminar on singlehanding


I hope you didn't go alone.

RB

Good points Edgar. What I passed on was what came straight from the seminar
panel. So while I can't answer your questions for them I will point out
they were solo circumnavigators. Let's see if I can dredge the memory for
clarification. Wire wasn't mentioned. All synthetic I should have
specified that. Didn't think of it because I don't use wire. The
individual who liked the extra ten feet had all lines run to the base of the
mast. I use some on mast and some in cockpit but since I coil lines and
stow them after each use I've never had a clutter problem. Probably an
issue in racing but I don't see a problem for cruising.. Figures on wear and
tear were those given by a couple of the rigging shops based on their
experience one being Brian Toss who does a lot of cruising and transpac
work. I think they are high myself given the conditions and constant strain
and asked about that and the answer was in the quality, strength and size of
the line. Definitely in the higher price category.

Hope that helped.

M.

I attach a Double Mamba to my harness, and use it often.
I also have a short tether permanently attached to my offshore
life jacket. It works great and comes in handy attaching things
like handheld VHFs.

I picked these up after I almost lost a crew overboard. She was
hanging onto the shrouds being dragged through the water. I
found I didn't have the strength to haul her up with one arm.
So I decided I needed a short tether.

http://www.northernmountain.com/NMSM...at=CLC&SubCat=


"Michael" wrote


2) Instead of relying on the single length tether on your safety harness
put
one in the cockpit (two if the foreward one won't reach aft to the wind
vane
etc., one by the vang, one by the stays'l and one by the jib/forestay and
anchor area plus one by the mast. Make each one the right length for what
you are doing. For example the one at the mast should be short, maybe a
foot
to 18". Then use the regular one to get from spot to spot along the
jacklines. (side note ) I learned to run a second line from the upper end
of
the bow pulpit up to just about elbow height on the lower shroud and then
down to the pushpit. Set so that boom and jib sheet etc. clear. When go
forward in rough seas you have deck jackline, toe rail, two lifelines (to
30" high) and this higher line so you are caught toe, above the knee and
just below the shoulder.

"Bart Senior" wrote:
I picked these up after I almost lost a crew overboard. She was
hanging onto the shrouds being dragged through the water. I
found I didn't have the strength to haul her up with one arm.
So I decided I needed a short tether.

I'm sure that's the only way you could keep a woman!

LP

"Bart Senior" wrote

I picked these up after I almost lost a crew overboard. She was
hanging onto the shrouds being dragged through the water.

You really need to get a head on your boat.

Scotty

Michael wrote:
Went to a seminar on singlehanding or single watchstanding safety.

Sounds to me like you got a bucket of BS from some dinosaurs.

... The
panel members have all solo circunavigated.

That's an accomplishment to be proud of, but does it have to be a pulpit
for preaching reliance on 1930s technology & outdated sailing concepts?


1) When securing the vang to the boom don't rely on just the under boom
fitting. Also pass a canvas or cloth strop from the end of the vang over the
boom, under the sail. This works unless you have a bolt rope.

In other words, it's useless unless you have slugs (antiquated) in which
case you'll probably rip the crap out of the sail if a heavy strain
comes on that strap & it tries to slide toward the gooseneck, which it
will... in any event, it will be just as likely to fold up the boom.

Better to put a proper fitting on the boom for the vang, be it a fitted
hard point or a bail with a compression post, and inspect it often
enough to reduce the chance of failure.


2) Instead of relying on the single length tether on your safety harness put
one in the cockpit (two if the foreward one won't reach aft to the wind vane
etc., one by the vang, one by the stays'l and one by the jib/forestay and
anchor area plus one by the mast.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but having an extra tether
banging around & catching on things does not appeal to me. Why not have
just 1 the right length?


... (side note ) I learned to run a second line from the upper end of
the bow pulpit up to just about elbow height on the lower shroud and then
down to the pushpit.

That sounds great, one more obstruction on deck. If you are on a big
boat with wide, unobstructed decks, then that would be a good idea *if*
the rope was very strong, secured very strongly, and kept taut enough to
keep you secure. Otherwise it's just going to help you get hurt... just
my opinion of course...


3) Running Rigging - As a rule of thumb figure they will last 30,000 nm.

??? How do they factor UV exposure per nautical mile?

... Cut
them at least 10' longer than normal.

Do these guys also advocate having baggy wrinkle all over everything?
What cluttered boats they must sail.

Frankly it sounds like the same kind of nonsense the "Cruising Rally"
lecturers are full of. Except for the weather professionals, most of
these guys are just a bunch of blowhards who enjoy telling newbies what
great sailors they are. Maybe I have been too hard on the Crapton, at
least he was amusing sometimes.

Michael, at least your bunch aren't subsidized shills telling you to run
out and buy a lot of fancy gear.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:



I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but having an extra tether
banging around & catching on things does not appeal to me. Why not have
just 1 the right length?


The idea is to be able to clip onto a new work point before you unclip
the last point. Anyone who has worked in rough weather on an open deck
knows how wise this is!

Cheers

In article ,
Nav wrote:


DSK wrote:



I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but having an extra tether
banging around & catching on things does not appeal to me. Why not have
just 1 the right length?


The idea is to be able to clip onto a new work point before you unclip
the last point. Anyone who has worked in rough weather on an open deck
knows how wise this is!

Yup... typically we'll have a short one and a longer one.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

So the question is: ""What is the right length?" Consider fore deck,
stays'l area, mast, vang, cockpit and stern areas. I have two on my harness
but the idea of one on the mast at least in the much shorter length needed
appealed to me.

That's the new question. How many? What length? Is there a perfect length
for all situations? If not . . .what is your recommendation?

M.


"Nav" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:



I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but having an extra tether
banging around & catching on things does not appeal to me. Why not have
just 1 the right length?


The idea is to be able to clip onto a new work point before you unclip
the last point. Anyone who has worked in rough weather on an open deck
knows how wise this is!

Cheers

How about this, both elasticated, one 30" longer than the height of your
harness to the ground the other 30"? The longer one should be clipped at
both ends and the shorter one attached to the harness clip of the longer
one. A double harness line may also help you get back aboard if you go
over the edge. By reaching up an clipping to the toe rail with the other
end you free a loop which you can use to help you up.

Cheers

Michael wrote:

So the question is: ""What is the right length?" Consider fore deck,
stays'l area, mast, vang, cockpit and stern areas. I have two on my harness
but the idea of one on the mast at least in the much shorter length needed
appealed to me.

That's the new question. How many? What length? Is there a perfect length
for all situations? If not . . .what is your recommendation?

M.


"Nav" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:



I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but having an extra tether
banging around & catching on things does not appeal to me. Why not have
just 1 the right length?


The idea is to be able to clip onto a new work point before you unclip
the last point. Anyone who has worked in rough weather on an open deck
knows how wise this is!

Cheers

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"Bart Senior" wrote

I picked these up after I almost lost a crew overboard. She was
hanging onto the shrouds being dragged through the water.

You really need to get a head on your shoulders.

I've corrected your spelling mistake.

Regards


Donal
--

Michael wrote:
So the question is: ""What is the right length?" Consider fore deck,
stays'l area, mast, vang, cockpit and stern areas.

Do you have to go out on a stern deck, or just in the cockpit & forward?

It's nice to have a padeye to secure to in the cockpit, but it should
(on most boats) be possible to lead a jackstay aft well enough to hook
on as you're standing in the companionway, and stay secured in the
cockpit. It's true that many boats are not practical for this, but then
many boats are overly praised as being super-seaworthy without attention
to detail like this.


... I have two on my harness
but the idea of one on the mast at least in the much shorter length needed
appealed to me.

"Much shorter" as in about a foot or so? That might be nice for working
at the mast, but it wouldn't give you much range of motion. If you have
to stop & unhook & rehook (or vice versa) every time you have to reach
for something, then every deck evolution will be very slow & cumbersome.
Stupid fiddle-faddle like this is why so many people give up on
harnesses... and a certain percent of them are lost...


That's the new question. How many? What length? Is there a perfect length
for all situations? If not . . .what is your recommendation?

I'd recommend one just slightly longer than knee length, and jacklines
from a point well aft to within reaching distance of the bow. Sweat them
down really tight. Yes your tether hook will bang up the deck, but you
can't have everything.

The one time I wore a harness with two tethers (both about 6' long, too
much IMHO), it was necessary... and the second tether was a total PITA.
It got tangled on everything. Eventually I tucked it into my bibs. I
have (and have used on a few other occasions) a harness with one
tether... just a bit shy of 5' long, including a shock-absorbing gather
(which IMHO is a frill.. part of the reason to have a shorter tether is
so that you don't go flying or falling anywhere).

"Nav" wrote in message
The idea is to be able to clip onto a new work point before you unclip
the last point. Anyone who has worked in rough weather on an open deck
knows how wise this is!

"Open deck" as in an Etchells?
;)

Actually, one good use for a second tether would be to hook onto a pad
eye right at your station, so that if the bow goes in hard you won't be
swept the full length of the deck. But that's a rather special case of
"rough weather" and would, for a cruiser, show bad planning more than
anything else IMHO. Admittedly my opinions are not 100% orthodox but I
came by them after a long period of trying to make theory & old wives
tales work as well in practice as they do on chalk boards & story time.

FWIW the vast majority of passagemakers spend less than 5% of their time
in wind over 30 knots... most never see more than 40. A 40 knot blow
ought not be stuffing the bow unless the boat is really unsuitable or
very badly handled. This BTW is fact rather than my opinion.

And there you have it... basically, it's a good example of the old
saying, "if you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Nav wrote:
...A double harness line may also help you get back aboard if you go
over the edge.

This is *really* bad advice, based on old wives tales.

A harness tether should be short enough to keep you from going over the
side. The odds are high that if you go over the side in very rough
conditions, you will be badly injured and/or drown before you... or
anybody else... can do a thing to assist.

DSK

It's not advice but an observation. If you are not alone, the spare hook
also makes snapping on a halyard a breeze.

Cheers



DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

...A double harness line may also help you get back aboard if you go
over the edge.


This is *really* bad advice, based on old wives tales.

A harness tether should be short enough to keep you from going over the
side. The odds are high that if you go over the side in very rough
conditions, you will be badly injured and/or drown before you... or
anybody else... can do a thing to assist.

DSK

Nav wrote:
... If you are not alone, the spare hook
also makes snapping on a halyard a breeze.

How so?

DSK

The man is held onto the boat by one line -leaving the other free. You
take a halyard and he or you can snap the other harness line to it. Can
then lift him out of the water with a halyard winch.


Cheers


DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

... If you are not alone, the spare hook also makes snapping on a
halyard a breeze.


How so?

DSK

Thanks, Spelling Fairy.

Sv

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"Bart Senior" wrote

I picked these up after I almost lost a crew overboard. She was
hanging onto the shrouds being dragged through the water.

You really need to get a head on your shoulders.

I've corrected your spelling mistake.

Regards


Donal
--

Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?

Scotty

"Michael" wrote in message
...

Went to a seminar on singlehanding or single watchstanding safety.
The
panel members have all solo circunavigated. Lots of good info but
here are
three I wanted to sha

1) When securing the vang to the boom don't rely on just the under
boom
fitting. Also pass a canvas or cloth strop from the end of the vang
over the
boom, under the sail. This works unless you have a bolt rope. The
idea is to
put the strain on the top of the boom and spread it out rather than
on a
fitting underneath that will eventually break due to fatigue of
metal.

2) Instead of relying on the single length tether on your safety
harness put
one in the cockpit (two if the foreward one won't reach aft to the
wind vane
etc., one by the vang, one by the stays'l and one by the
jib/forestay and
anchor area plus one by the mast. Make each one the right length for
what
you are doing. For example the one at the mast should be short,
maybe a foot
to 18". Then use the regular one to get from spot to spot along the
jacklines. (side note ) I learned to run a second line from the
upper end of
the bow pulpit up to just about elbow height on the lower shroud and
then
down to the pushpit. Set so that boom and jib sheet etc. clear. When
go
forward in rough seas you have deck jackline, toe rail, two
lifelines (to
30" high) and this higher line so you are caught toe, above the knee
and
just below the shoulder.

3) Running Rigging - As a rule of thumb figure they will last 30,000
nm. Cut
them at least 10' longer than normal. Then every 3,000 nm cut off a
foot and
move everything along the route, through the blocks etc, to a new
sport.
This keeps the line from wearing in only one spot as it lays in the
sheaves.
Also means you don't have to end for end quite so much. That can be
done at
15,000 nm at which point you reverse the procedure. So there's three
good
ideas I came away with!

Michael

Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Use the Bart method: Drink plenty of fluids and pee a lot into a Clorox bottle!

Cheers
Marty

Nav wrote:
The man is held onto the boat by one line -leaving the other free. You
take a halyard and he or you can snap the other harness line to it. Can
then lift him out of the water with a halyard winch.

OK, that makes sense. I didn't realize you were talking about hauling a
man out of the water.

DSK

Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Martin Baxter wrote:
Use the Bart method: Drink plenty of fluids and pee a lot into a Clorox
bottle!

And then use it to make a really really strong cup of coffee...

Hey this could lead to chemically assisted perpetual motion!

DSK

DSK wrote:

Scott Vernon wrote:

Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Martin Baxter wrote:

Use the Bart method: Drink plenty of fluids and pee a lot into a
Clorox bottle!


And then use it to make a really really strong cup of coffee...

We'll have to consult with Jeff on this, I believe he's mentioned something about using beans that have passed through monkey digestive tracks, so...?


Cheers
Marty
Hey this could lead to chemically assisted perpetual motion!

DSK

Ever tried pulling a man back up over the side? I'm strong with good
reach and I couldn't do it -trying to lift while reaching out robs you
of strength -let alone having to stay on the boat yourself!

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

The man is held onto the boat by one line -leaving the other free. You
take a halyard and he or you can snap the other harness line to it.
Can then lift him out of the water with a halyard winch.


OK, that makes sense. I didn't realize you were talking about hauling a
man out of the water.

DSK

DSK wrote:

Scott Vernon wrote:

Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Martin Baxter wrote:

Use the Bart method: Drink plenty of fluids and pee a lot into a
Clorox bottle!


And then use it to make a really really strong cup of coffee...

Hey this could lead to chemically assisted perpetual motion!


Catch22?

Cheers

how does that help?

SV

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Use the Bart method: Drink plenty of fluids and pee a lot into a
Clorox bottle!

Cheers
Marty

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Sailing. I know how to do it driving.

Any suggestions?

Scotty

You do it while driving? Isn't that almost as dangerous as driving and
talking on a cell phone????
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Sailing. I know how to do it driving.

Any suggestions?

Scotty

Oh, the stories I could tell you......... If Lisa would let me.
;))))


"katysails" wrote in message
...
You do it while driving? Isn't that almost as dangerous as driving
and
talking on a cell phone????
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Vernon wrote:
Did they give any tips on how to stay awake at he wheel while
singlehanding on an overnight?


Ya talkin' bout sailin' or drivin'?

Sailing. I know how to do it driving.

Any suggestions?

Scotty

Nav wrote:
Ever tried pulling a man back up over the side?

Yep. A couple of times people who were hypothermic and not able to do
much for themselves. Fortunately that wasn't in rough weather. I have
also been in a situation of pulling aboard a person in quite rough
weather, and another time, a large stupid dog (not mine). It's actually
easier when there are big waves to do the lifting... if you'e got a good
sense of timing.


... I'm strong with good
reach and I couldn't do it -trying to lift while reaching out robs you
of strength -let alone having to stay on the boat yourself!

Always used an improvised tackle. The hard part about bringing a person
on board is that they're fragile.

Years ago during a charter trip to the Bahamas, we hauled aboard a USCG
"rescue package" that included a long list of useful items, including a
small gas-powered pump. Unfortunately the crate leaked... understandable
considering it was dropped from a Lear jet with very small parachute
(which I still have BTW)... which meant we had to haul a box the size of
a kitchen table, 1/2 full of water, on board... *very* heavy!
Fortunately it was not an emergency so we did not have to hurry.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:



Years ago during a charter trip to the Bahamas, we hauled aboard a USCG
"rescue package" that included a long list of useful items, including a
small gas-powered pump. Unfortunately the crate leaked... understandable
considering it was dropped from a Lear jet with very small parachute
(which I still have BTW)... which meant we had to haul a box the size of
a kitchen table, 1/2 full of water, on board... *very* heavy!
Fortunately it was not an emergency so we did not have to hurry.


This sounds interesting. You called in the USCG (I had no idea they had
Lear jets) but it was not an emergency? Isn't it time you returned the
Lear jet and parachute?

Cheers

Scott Vernon wrote:

how does that help?

You ever fall asleeep while taking a whiz?

Cheers
Marty

Nav wrote:
This sounds interesting. You called in the USCG (I had no idea they had
Lear jets) but it was not an emergency?

Nope, I didn't call them. They were circling over a broke-down boat load
of Bahamian fishermen who had been missing for several days.

I didn't know the USCG had Lear jets either, in fact when I saw it, I
thought it was a drug deal in the making and turned to go the other way.
I also specifically requested that they *not* drop us anything, but the
pilot wanted to make his Boy Scout points for the day.


... Isn't it time you returned the
Lear jet and parachute?

Why? They never asked.

Actually I did offer to return the parachute with the other gear and
they said "keep it, it's not worth the effort to repack." So I obtained
gov't surplus 1500' of line and two 3' diameter drogue parachutes. I've
had the idea they would make decent sea anchors. Never had to use them,
other than stopping the boat for swim call.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Does taking a whiz *while* sleeping count?

SV

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:

how does that help?

You ever fall asleeep while taking a whiz?

Cheers
Marty

Scotty told me he stays out of the deepends.
Scout

wrote
Now we know why you wear depends.

Does taking a whiz *while* sleeping count?


No doubt Scotty has boxes of Depends ready to go!
That's Scotty Potti for ya!

RB

DSK wrote in message ...
Nav wrote:
This sounds interesting. You called in the USCG (I had no idea they had
Lear jets) but it was not an emergency?

Nope, I didn't call them. They were circling over a broke-down boat load
of Bahamian fishermen who had been missing for several days.


So..... why did they drop a rescue kit to you?

Was it a mistake? Were you to deliver it to the broke down fishing boat?


I didn't know the USCG had Lear jets either, in fact when I saw it, I
thought it was a drug deal in the making and turned to go the other way.
I also specifically requested that they *not* drop us anything, but the
pilot wanted to make his Boy Scout points for the day.

Not only do they have Lears they also have some fine Hawkers.

Did you keep the small gas pump? What else did you get?

Joe










... Isn't it time you returned the
Lear jet and parachute?

Why? They never asked.

Actually I did offer to return the parachute with the other gear and
they said "keep it, it's not worth the effort to repack." So I obtained
gov't surplus 1500' of line and two 3' diameter drogue parachutes. I've
had the idea they would make decent sea anchors. Never had to use them,
other than stopping the boat for swim call.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King