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#1
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"Dave" wrote in message "Mr. Kerry's campaign could not say definitively whether he did receive enemy fire that day." http://washingtontimes.com/national/...5217-7993r.htm Gimme a break. Kerry was there. If there was enemy fire, he certainly should be able to say yea or nay "definitively." Interesting phenomenon, this one. Most of the prevaricating concerning Vietnam service has traditionally been by those who weren't there but claim they were. Kerry seems to be opening new territory. Max |
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#2
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What about Cambodia. First he was in Cambodia on a secret
mission. And then he wasn't. Kerry is a fraud. President Bush was right. Kerry should be honored for being there. But it should also be recognized that he bailed out after only four months, and became a turncoat when he returned. Let's send Kerry back to Vietnam--he could get elected there. "Maxprop" wrote "Dave" wrote in message "Mr. Kerry's campaign could not say definitively whether he did receive enemy fire that day." http://washingtontimes.com/national/...5217-7993r.htm Gimme a break. Kerry was there. If there was enemy fire, he certainly should be able to say yea or nay "definitively." Interesting phenomenon, this one. Most of the prevaricating concerning Vietnam service has traditionally been by those who weren't there but claim they were. Kerry seems to be opening new territory. Max |
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#3
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In article ,
Bart Senior wrote: President Bush was right. Kerry should be honored for being there. But it should also be recognized that he bailed out after only four months, and became a turncoat when he returned. Let's send Kerry back to Vietnam--he could get elected there. So, what you're saying is that even though he volunteered for service, whereas Bush didn't, and he finally realized after four months and being wounded several times that he should stay anyway even if he had an opportunity to get the hell out of there. Talk about pretzel logic. -- Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m) http://www.sailnow.com "If there's no wind, row." |
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#4
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#5
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In article ,
Joe wrote: (Jonathan Ganz) wrote in message ... So, what you're saying is that even though he volunteered for service, whereas Bush didn't, and he finally realized after four months and being wounded several times that he should stay anyway even if he had an opportunity to get the hell out of there. Talk about pretzel logic. Yes thats what he's saying Jonboy. Well, if that's what he's saying, it sounds me like Kerry analyzed teh situation, realized it was a cluster ****, that he had the option to leave, and he did. Seems reasonable to me. What good is it to volunteer and then quit? Or was he sent packing? Why start something and not finish it? Like Kerry voting to go to war then voting not to support the troops he had a part in sending. Thats Kerry problem he always start something and in mid stream he quits or starts heading the other way. We call him Flipper! He volunteered, fullfilled his commitment as required by the rules, and left. Seems to me that's pretty consistent with what any normal, intelligent person would do. Seems to me that you're unable to finish anything. You attack Kerry for serving honorably by saying he left when he was entitled to leave. When someone points that out, you change the subject to something else. Seems to me that you're pretty stupid or gulible. -- Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m) http://www.sailnow.com "If there's no wind, row." |
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#6
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Bart Senior wrote:
President Bush was right. Kerry should be honored for being there. But it should also be recognized that he bailed out after only four months, and became a turncoat ..... Everybody I know who supports the Vietnam War has been been suckered into imagining that an evil communist regime in the north attacked the free democratic government of the south - kind of like happened in Korea. That's what I thot too because that's what JFK's whiz kids told us. Sorry suckers, but that isn't the way it happened. After whupping the frog, Vietnam partitioned *itself* to see if capitalism would be better *for them* than communism. Ike figured that, with a little US help, North and South Vietnam would be like East and West Germany by the time the election came, but that didn't happen. The North thrived by 3rd world standards (with help from the USSR) but the South got stuck with a murdering Catholic dictator who funneled US aid into his family's Swiss bank accounts - a dictator so repressive that Buddists (the majority religion) were burning themselves in protest! So, as the election scheduled to reunify the country approached it was obviously going to be Commies by a landslide. Meanwhile, JFK conferred with the Pope, made sure Cuba stayed communist, then went to Dallas, leaving his Whizzers in charge of 'managing' LBJ. Whizz Kids were Ivy League bean counters with inflated self esteem, who looked down on both the military and LBJ. Appalled at the thot of loosing another country, and prolly all SE Asia to communism on their watch they 'reasoned' that the dictators who replaced Diem could win the hearts and minds of the people given a US military presence. They knew that LBJ, Congerss and the American People would never agree so they first created the Gulf of Tonkin Incident then set their plan into motion.and when it failed they added more and more men. It is an indisputable fact that it failed even then. After bankrupting the USA and getting 50,000 or so American boys killed, McNamara quietly admitted they'd been wrong, wrote The Pentagon Papers, and moved on to head the world bank where he orchestrated the collapse of the dollar. Gradually, enough Americans wised up to make Nixon pull out (As some say his dad should have done) and now Vietnam has essentially the same government it would have had if the Whizzers had allowed the election to be held on schedule. That is an indisputable fact. But oddly, many Americans prefer to remain ignorant of these facts and blame the people who got us out of there for loosing the war - perhaps because they suspect that *they* lost it and need to cover the guilt. But guess what suckers - winning was SecDef McNamara's biggest nightmare because winning would have made us look like France. That's why you would *never* have been allowed to "win". JFK worshipper Kerry believed the whizzers and volunteered for 'nam; but when he got there he learned the truth - that even non-communists were fighting us for the self determination our puppet dictators refused them - and went home to try to end that idiotic war before more of America's best got sent there to die. To the ignorant, who's lives he and folks like him saved, that made him a turncoat. |
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#7
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It took 30 years till my father finally admitted that the war was
bogus, and he had 3 sons eligable for the draft. On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:20:07 -0400, "Vito" wrote: Bart Senior wrote: President Bush was right. Kerry should be honored for being there. But it should also be recognized that he bailed out after only four months, and became a turncoat ..... Everybody I know who supports the Vietnam War has been been suckered into imagining that an evil communist regime in the north attacked the free democratic government of the south - kind of like happened in Korea. That's what I thot too because that's what JFK's whiz kids told us. Sorry suckers, but that isn't the way it happened. After whupping the frog, Vietnam partitioned *itself* to see if capitalism would be better *for them* than communism. Ike figured that, with a little US help, North and South Vietnam would be like East and West Germany by the time the election came, but that didn't happen. The North thrived by 3rd world standards (with help from the USSR) but the South got stuck with a murdering Catholic dictator who funneled US aid into his family's Swiss bank accounts - a dictator so repressive that Buddists (the majority religion) were burning themselves in protest! So, as the election scheduled to reunify the country approached it was obviously going to be Commies by a landslide. Meanwhile, JFK conferred with the Pope, made sure Cuba stayed communist, then went to Dallas, leaving his Whizzers in charge of 'managing' LBJ. Whizz Kids were Ivy League bean counters with inflated self esteem, who looked down on both the military and LBJ. Appalled at the thot of loosing another country, and prolly all SE Asia to communism on their watch they 'reasoned' that the dictators who replaced Diem could win the hearts and minds of the people given a US military presence. They knew that LBJ, Congerss and the American People would never agree so they first created the Gulf of Tonkin Incident then set their plan into motion.and when it failed they added more and more men. It is an indisputable fact that it failed even then. After bankrupting the USA and getting 50,000 or so American boys killed, McNamara quietly admitted they'd been wrong, wrote The Pentagon Papers, and moved on to head the world bank where he orchestrated the collapse of the dollar. Gradually, enough Americans wised up to make Nixon pull out (As some say his dad should have done) and now Vietnam has essentially the same government it would have had if the Whizzers had allowed the election to be held on schedule. That is an indisputable fact. But oddly, many Americans prefer to remain ignorant of these facts and blame the people who got us out of there for loosing the war - perhaps because they suspect that *they* lost it and need to cover the guilt. But guess what suckers - winning was SecDef McNamara's biggest nightmare because winning would have made us look like France. That's why you would *never* have been allowed to "win". JFK worshipper Kerry believed the whizzers and volunteered for 'nam; but when he got there he learned the truth - that even non-communists were fighting us for the self determination our puppet dictators refused them - and went home to try to end that idiotic war before more of America's best got sent there to die. To the ignorant, who's lives he and folks like him saved, that made him a turncoat. |
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#8
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Vito wrote:
Everybody I know who supports the Vietnam War has been been suckered into imagining that an evil communist regime in the north attacked the free democratic government of the south - kind of like happened in Korea. That's what I thot too because that's what JFK's whiz kids told us. Umm, yeah. That's pretty much what *did* happen. Sorry suckers, but that isn't the way it happened. After whupping the frog, Vietnam partitioned *itself* WHAT?!? You are really high on cheap drugs. I suppose the Geneva Convention was a code name for an all-Viet congress, and the delegates from other countries were all secretly Vietnamese? ... The North thrived by 3rd world standards (with help from the USSR) North Vietnam, 1954 ~ 1962, traded everything they had in the way of raw materials to Russia ( and to an increasing extent China) in order to build the largest military they could. The average persons standard of living declined significantly compared to the colonial period (pre 1954), if you doubt it then check the record of "famines" during that time frame. Starving & universal conscription is not "thriving" unless you have a really odd definition. ... but the South got stuck with a murdering Catholic dictator who funneled US aid into his family's Swiss bank accounts That is somewhat accurate. Actually Diem was elected Prime Minister at first. Over time, more and more nepotism made his gov't corrupt & inefficient... OTOH faced by a ruthless communist insurgency, he placed a higher value on loyalty than on efficiency. There's a lesson here for those who pay attention. ... - a dictator so repressive that Buddists (the majority religion) were burning themselves in protest! With encouragement from Communist inflitrators forming a subversive "opposition" party. You might say the Buddhists were willing dupes... that is Lenin's words for them. ... So, as the election scheduled to reunify the country approached it was obviously going to be Commies by a landslide. Sorry, that's exactly backwards. There was a tremendous flow of refugees from North to South Viet Nam all through this period. The election was cancelled in the North and Communist agents in the South had orders to disrupt the election by the most violent means possible. Gradually, enough Americans wised up to make Nixon pull out (As some say his dad should have done) and now Vietnam has essentially the same government it would have had if the Whizzers had allowed the election to be held on schedule. Umm, no. Not even. Is this version of "history" the same one where Ho Chi Minh was not a Communist, and didn't make a lot of promises to the ComIntern about 'revolutionizing' all South East Asia? A version where the same Ho Chi Minh didn't form communist parties in Laos & Camobodia in the 1920s and 1930s... look it up. Wait for the drugs to wear off first. ... That is an indisputable fact. yeah right. ... But oddly, many Americans prefer to remain ignorant Really? And you're at the head of the list, right? .... But guess what suckers - winning was SecDef McNamara's biggest nightmare because winning would have made us look like France. That's why you would *never* have been allowed to "win". Depends on how you define "winning." A big part of the problem is that the U.S. strategic concept of "winning" in Viet Nam would have meant simply maintaining South Viet Nam as an independent non-communist country... no plans for converting the North, no plans for reducing the North's motivation or capacity to attack the South... Oh wait, you don't believe that happened. Maybe you believe that after the U.S. left, all of South Viet Nam had marvelous party and joyfully reunited themselves with the North... The fact is that once we left, and they'd had a few years to rebuild, North Viet Nam invaded the South with more tanks that Hitler sent into France in 1940. If you take a look at how the French got there in the first place, then you may get a chance at understanding the situation in Viet Nam in the 1960s and early 1970s. Why don't you take a look at their own short version of their history. http://www.asia-discovery.com/Vietnam/history.htm This will probably not work, you have a lot to un-learn first. Regards Doug King |
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#10
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The French-looking
John Kerry in no way volunteered for service. That's a flat-out lie. What can you do with someone so obviously out of their mind idiotic like Horvath is? It's a mystery. RB |
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