Docking Situation Question #1
 

You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:35:50 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:


Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

How much rum to get.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Bart Senior wrote:
You are in a difficult docking situation.

A five knot current is sure a difficult situation!

If you can warp the boat around to the end of the dock and set out on a
broad reach and actually make headway against the current, then you'd be
fine.

You're smart to think of a bail-out maneuver, but the situation isn't
clear enough to me to suggest one.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Screw the light; what time does the bar open. I can't remember or deal
will all the problems

Maybe after a few?

OT

"Bart Senior" wrote in message . net...
You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

First I would release the stern line and flip the boat around Kerry
Style.

With my bow upstream I would hold the stern line tight as a spring and
let the bow drift out... raise the jib just past the dead on wind,
hold the stern until I started getting way then cast off on a windward
tack downstream using the wind and current to my advantage to gain
enough speed to clear the Motersailer.

Another option might be to toss a anchor off your port bow and swing
out into the current , raise all sails as you pull up your kedge and
sail away from the dock using the rudder and hydrodynamic against your
anchor.


2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

Nothing a sure thing,........ call a towboat?


3. What are your bail out options?
A fast deployed anchor


Joe

5 knot water -oouch
6 knot wind

use an oar on the windward side from the cockpit, as you ease the lines from
the dock--- turning the bow towards the wind using the current?
sail off on a close reach picking up speed and heading up till you clear the
docks

bailout plan: stern anchor.

or have the launch tow you out, giving you some time for a beer at the club
gf.


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

The wind is blowing onto the shore/dock.

There is space to raise sails.

OooooozeOne wrote

Is the wind blowing you off the shore or onto it?
Do you have room to hoist any sails..albeit without using the main
halyard lock..?


On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:35:50 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Several possibilities exist... but I have no experience with the handling
characteristics of an Etchells
My experience with my crab crusher to a lee dock would have me row out an
anchor... raise the sails at the dock and tow myself out to the hook...
then weigh the kedge tackle under trim and set course into the current

Your scenario would require as Joe stated... flipping the bow to the wind
prior to leaving the dock.

At any rate you would initially want to sail into the current to gain as
much ground as possible before tacking downstream to gain speed and avoid
the downstream obstructions.

CM


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
| The wind is blowing onto the shore/dock.
|
| There is space to raise sails.
|
| OooooozeOne wrote
|
| Is the wind blowing you off the shore or onto it?
| Do you have room to hoist any sails..albeit without using the main
| halyard lock..?
|
|
| On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:35:50 GMT, "Bart Senior"
| scribbled thusly:
|
| You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
| to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
| must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
| light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.
|
| You docked are on a river, facing down stream.
|
| There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.
|
| The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
| boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
| 6 knots.
|
| The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
| without a motor.
|
| Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
| that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
| project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
| tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.
|
| If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
| with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
| out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
| trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
| either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
| of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
| and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.
|
| Questions:
| 1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
| need to consider in planning this departure.
|
| 2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?
|
| 3. What are your bail out options?
|
|
|
|
| Oz1...of the 3 twins.
|
| I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
|
|

What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the obstructions
while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:

You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

Reaching off would be easy then bear away and enjoy the fast ride
downstream!

Cheers

OooooozeOne wrote:

Then raise the sails, push off and sail outta there.

When you get out in the middle, round up and set the halyard lock then
enjoy your sail.

It is an Etchells after all! :-)

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:02:09 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:


The wind is blowing onto the shore/dock.

There is space to raise sails.

OooooozeOne wrote


Is the wind blowing you off the shore or onto it?
Do you have room to hoist any sails..albeit without using the main
halyard lock..?


On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:35:50 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:


You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Well for starters, the apparent wind shift due to the "Current Wind"
(CW) would shift the Apparent Wind forward 45 degrees as soon
as you cast off. Basically, you'd have little or no flow across the
rudder when sailing with the current. Attempts at steering would tend
to put on the brakes. A close haul course would not even be towards
the dock you wanted to miss, but parallel to the shore. You'd have to
hope to gain enough speed sailing parallel to the shore to maneuver
just prior to reaching the first dock.

If you managed to get the bow past the docked boat, you still might
have to pivot the boat on it's keel with the helm to get the rest of the
boat passed the docked boat. In that case, you'd have to again get
the boat powered up again, and hope to coast around the next dock
which is a further obstacle because it extends farther out.

This is a situation of speed but no control. Chances are you would
have lost all way with respect to the current, put on the brakes with
the helm, and put yourself into the hole in the next dock. So missing
the first boat would doom you for the second obstacle.

If someone gave you a really major push off the dock with the boom,
you might clear the obstacles by sailing down with the current. This
initial push would give you some flow across the rudder, at least
initially, and give you time to get the boat trimmed for speed. You
would need to paddle hard to have any real hope to get out of there,
because the course you'd want would be the other tack. Tacking in
this situation is hopeless, unless you paddle very hard.

The smart move is to swing the boat around at the dock and sail into
the current which would give you flow across the rudder and helm
response, plus more time and room to maneuver. In this case the
apparent wind would not shift forward like the first case, but actually
shift aft as the force of the current induced wind would actually help
fill your sails!

With a strong push off the dock to counter the current the boat
would see a beam reach off the dock and with flow across the rudder,
be able to head up to maintain that apparent beam reach, while
putting some distance between the boat and the shore. Your course
over the ground (COG) would be still be backwards!

Heading upriver also gives you more precious time to clear obstacles.

"Boat wind" (BW) would be with the CW in the first case, and oppose
it in the second case. The CW would be slightly reduced but at least
working for you instead of against you.

The key to this whole problem is the effect of a dominating "Current
Wind", and to a lesser extend "Boat Wind" on "Apparent Wind". It is
easy to forget that the beam reach you see at the dock when you are
tied up, will not be there when the current sweeps you along.

What would you prefer, to try to clear objects while in irons, or to try
to clear them while moving backwards, but powered up?

Bart

"Nav" wrote

What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the obstructions
while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:

You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

I know I'm a little late here but anyway:

As pointed out by Nav: The current follows the coast and might almost
take you past the obstructions.
As Bart said: The apparent wind will shift once you are out in the
current.

First problem is to clear the dock: Turn the boat (as Joe and others
suggested) Let the boat hang in the aft-most spring and the fore line,
then ease the forward line a bit and the current will move the boat
away from the dock. (That was my contribution) You can then hoist the
sails, probably the jib first and then let go the lines at the same
time, and start heading away from the dock into the middle of the
stream on a close reach starboard tack.

Keep a anchor ready, just in case.

Peter S/Y Anicula


"Bart Senior" skrev i en meddelelse
. net...
Well for starters, the apparent wind shift due to the "Current Wind"
(CW) would shift the Apparent Wind forward 45 degrees as soon
as you cast off. Basically, you'd have little or no flow across the
rudder when sailing with the current. Attempts at steering would
tend
to put on the brakes. A close haul course would not even be towards
the dock you wanted to miss, but parallel to the shore. You'd have
to
hope to gain enough speed sailing parallel to the shore to maneuver
just prior to reaching the first dock.

If you managed to get the bow past the docked boat, you still might
have to pivot the boat on it's keel with the helm to get the rest of
the
boat passed the docked boat. In that case, you'd have to again get
the boat powered up again, and hope to coast around the next dock
which is a further obstacle because it extends farther out.

This is a situation of speed but no control. Chances are you would
have lost all way with respect to the current, put on the brakes
with
the helm, and put yourself into the hole in the next dock. So
missing
the first boat would doom you for the second obstacle.

If someone gave you a really major push off the dock with the boom,
you might clear the obstacles by sailing down with the current.
This
initial push would give you some flow across the rudder, at least
initially, and give you time to get the boat trimmed for speed. You
would need to paddle hard to have any real hope to get out of there,
because the course you'd want would be the other tack. Tacking in
this situation is hopeless, unless you paddle very hard.

The smart move is to swing the boat around at the dock and sail into
the current which would give you flow across the rudder and helm
response, plus more time and room to maneuver. In this case the
apparent wind would not shift forward like the first case, but
actually
shift aft as the force of the current induced wind would actually
help
fill your sails!

With a strong push off the dock to counter the current the boat
would see a beam reach off the dock and with flow across the rudder,
be able to head up to maintain that apparent beam reach, while
putting some distance between the boat and the shore. Your course
over the ground (COG) would be still be backwards!

Heading upriver also gives you more precious time to clear
obstacles.

"Boat wind" (BW) would be with the CW in the first case, and oppose
it in the second case. The CW would be slightly reduced but at
least
working for you instead of against you.

The key to this whole problem is the effect of a dominating "Current
Wind", and to a lesser extend "Boat Wind" on "Apparent Wind". It is
easy to forget that the beam reach you see at the dock when you are
tied up, will not be there when the current sweeps you along.

What would you prefer, to try to clear objects while in irons, or to
try
to clear them while moving backwards, but powered up?

Bart

"Nav" wrote

What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the
obstructions
while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:

You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

Bart Senior wrote:

1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

Walk the boat around at the dock to point upstream. Cast off and reach
gently upstream at a speed slightly less than the ebb current.


2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

Sailing 'backwards' against the current will keep the rudder working and
provide good steerageway to maintain control of your position across the
width of the river.


3. What are your bail out options?

The nett slow downstream speed will make it easier to fend off. Be ready to
drop the anchor if things get hairy. Could maybe sheet in to get enough
speed to overcome the current, effectively providing brakes against your
downstream motion.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

6 knots wind and a 5 knot current???

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
| What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the obstructions
| while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???
|
| Cheers
|
| Bart Senior wrote:
|
| You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
| to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
| must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
| light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.
|
| You docked are on a river, facing down stream.
|
| There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.
|
| The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
| boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
| 6 knots.
|
| The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
| without a motor.
|
| Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
| that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
| project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
| tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.
|
| If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
| with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
| out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
| trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
| either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
| of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
| and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.
|
| Questions:
| 1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
| need to consider in planning this departure.
|
| 2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?
|
| 3. What are your bail out options?
|
|
|

Yep, the current is strongest in the middle so you just have to stay
there and watch all the obstruction drift by. The wind is easily strong
enough to add some direction control.

Cheers

Capt. Mooron wrote:

6 knots wind and a 5 knot current???

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
| What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the obstructions
| while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???
|
| Cheers
|
| Bart Senior wrote:
|
| You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
| to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
| must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
| light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.
|
| You docked are on a river, facing down stream.
|
| There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.
|
| The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
| boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
| 6 knots.
|
| The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
| without a motor.
|
| Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
| that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
| project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
| tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.
|
| If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
| with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
| out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
| trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
| either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
| of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
| and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.
|
| Questions:
| 1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
| need to consider in planning this departure.
|
| 2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?
|
| 3. What are your bail out options?
|
|
|

Well just turn around then go down the river stern first! This really
sounds like a non-problem to me. The point is you don't need boat speed,
just enough to give rudder control. The river is what is doing the work!

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:

Well for starters, the apparent wind shift due to the "Current Wind"
(CW) would shift the Apparent Wind forward 45 degrees as soon
as you cast off. Basically, you'd have little or no flow across the
rudder when sailing with the current. Attempts at steering would tend
to put on the brakes. A close haul course would not even be towards
the dock you wanted to miss, but parallel to the shore. You'd have to
hope to gain enough speed sailing parallel to the shore to maneuver
just prior to reaching the first dock.

If you managed to get the bow past the docked boat, you still might
have to pivot the boat on it's keel with the helm to get the rest of the
boat passed the docked boat. In that case, you'd have to again get
the boat powered up again, and hope to coast around the next dock
which is a further obstacle because it extends farther out.

This is a situation of speed but no control. Chances are you would
have lost all way with respect to the current, put on the brakes with
the helm, and put yourself into the hole in the next dock. So missing
the first boat would doom you for the second obstacle.

If someone gave you a really major push off the dock with the boom,
you might clear the obstacles by sailing down with the current. This
initial push would give you some flow across the rudder, at least
initially, and give you time to get the boat trimmed for speed. You
would need to paddle hard to have any real hope to get out of there,
because the course you'd want would be the other tack. Tacking in
this situation is hopeless, unless you paddle very hard.

The smart move is to swing the boat around at the dock and sail into
the current which would give you flow across the rudder and helm
response, plus more time and room to maneuver. In this case the
apparent wind would not shift forward like the first case, but actually
shift aft as the force of the current induced wind would actually help
fill your sails!

With a strong push off the dock to counter the current the boat
would see a beam reach off the dock and with flow across the rudder,
be able to head up to maintain that apparent beam reach, while
putting some distance between the boat and the shore. Your course
over the ground (COG) would be still be backwards!

Heading upriver also gives you more precious time to clear obstacles.

"Boat wind" (BW) would be with the CW in the first case, and oppose
it in the second case. The CW would be slightly reduced but at least
working for you instead of against you.

The key to this whole problem is the effect of a dominating "Current
Wind", and to a lesser extend "Boat Wind" on "Apparent Wind". It is
easy to forget that the beam reach you see at the dock when you are
tied up, will not be there when the current sweeps you along.

What would you prefer, to try to clear objects while in irons, or to try
to clear them while moving backwards, but powered up?

Bart

"Nav" wrote


What's to stop you letting the stream take you past the obstructions
while you add minor adjustmets using the wind???

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:


You are in a difficult docking situation. You want
to depart the dock and sail on a gorgeous day, but
must leave now. Any later and you will lose your
light, and have to cancel sailing for the day.

You docked are on a river, facing down stream.

There is a 5 knot ebb current and it is max ebb.

The wind is coming directly across the beam of your
boat and also directly across the river. It is blowing
6 knots.

The boat is an Etchells keelboat, skeg hung rudder
without a motor.

Down current are two obstacles---both are docks
that are parallel to the river. The closest dock does not
project out as far as the second but has a motorsailer
tied up pointed upriver that you must clear.

If you clear the first dock, you still have to contend
with clearing the second dock which extends even farther
out into the river. If you can't clear that dock, you are
trapped in a cul-de-sac and will collide with something,
either the inside of the dock and pilings, which are free
of boats, or else into the club house with your forestay
and likely damage your rig, if not lose it entirely.

Questions:
1. What is your strategy? What are all the factors you
need to consider in planning this departure.

2. What can you do to insure you clear both docks?

3. What are your bail out options?

OooooozeOne wrote in message
| BTW we travel the full length of this winding, hazardous stretch
| often, right up to the top of the map, Point Clare.
|
| Keeps you on your toes, particularly at night.

Can't see it as being all that difficult ... it's more than well marked.

Do you turn on the engine like Nav does? ;-)

CM

OooooozeOne wrote in message
| Much of the shoreline has houses and the markers get lost in the
| lights.

Yeah... well really..after you've been in and out a few times how difficult
can it be... knowing the Oz penchant for brews and all I can understand the
confusion... a bit... but it should all be rather instinctive after a half
dozen passes shouldn't it?

| The fact that it's extremely shallow in sections and that there are so
| many channel markers can be confusing.

Nope... that I can't understand even at night... you folks have radar down
there? Does the sweep turn counter-clockwise? ;-)

|
| Yes, we always go thru with the engine running and have often sailed
| backwards thru the rip using the engine to steer.

Cripes Ozzy... how strong is that rip current anyway?

Looks like a stretch I'd love to tackle....

CM

Nope... that I can't understand even at night... you folks have radar down
there? Does the sweep turn counter-clockwise? ;-)

Radar??
What for, we rarely have anything but clear skys.

G Interestin statement......

OooooozeOne wrote in message
| Radar??
| What for, we rarely have anything but clear skys.

H-m-m-m-m-m.... didn't you state "Much of the shoreline has houses and the
markers get lost in the
lights.The fact that it's extremely shallow in sections and that there are
so many channel markers can be confusing."

Hello!!!???

CM

OooooozeOne wrote in message
| Most waterways are wide and easy to navigate and those that aren't
| usually have steep hills either side making radar virtually useless
| because you can easily see your path.

Okay,,, now you are sounding like Nav.... what you stated makes no sense at
all Ozzy!

Good radar will clear up that mess of lights and buoys you can't spot at
night in a hurry.

CM

OooooozeOne wrote in message
| Yep, but radar can't see around corners.

I call BULL****!

CM

OooooozeOne wrote:
On 20 Aug 2004 17:12:51 GMT, (Shen44) scribbled
thusly:


Nope... that I can't understand even at night... you folks have radar down
there? Does the sweep turn counter-clockwise? ;-)

Radar??
What for, we rarely have anything but clear skys.

G Interestin statement......


Yep, interesting alright.
Our waters are virtually free of traffic compared to yours, weather
conditions are clear all but a few days of the year, and even a thick
fog is nowhere near as thick as some of yours.
Most waterways are wide and easy to navigate and those that aren't
usually have steep hills either side making radar virtually useless
because you can easily see your path.



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Either you've never used radar, or used it, but never learned how to use
it or make use of it.

otn

Subject: Docking Situation Question #1
From: "OooooozeOne
Date: 08/20/2004 16:49 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 20 Aug 2004 17:12:51 GMT, (Shen44) scribbled
thusly:

Nope... that I can't understand even at night... you folks have radar down
there? Does the sweep turn counter-clockwise? ;-)

Radar??
What for, we rarely have anything but clear skys.

G Interestin statement......

Yep, interesting alright.
Our waters are virtually free of traffic compared to yours, weather
conditions are clear all but a few days of the year, and even a thick
fog is nowhere near as thick as some of yours.
Most waterways are wide and easy to navigate and those that aren't
usually have steep hills either side making radar virtually useless
because you can easily see your path.


In other words, you don't know much about radar. Ever used one?

Shen

OooooozeOne wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:47:21 -0300, "Capt. Mooron"
| scribbled thusly:
|
|
| OooooozeOne wrote in message
| | Yep, but radar can't see around corners.
|
| I call BULL****!
|
| CM
|
| It can?
| WOW!
| I'd always though it would only return what it can 'see'

Well there you go.... that's your problem. It can "see" much more from it's
vantage 20 feet above the deck.

CM

Umm yep, and if you can see a path thru the returns then it'd be
great.
Unfortunately in that area there is no discernable path without the
colours of the nav aids. the rest are unmaked piles and other jun

Looking at the "chartlet" you sent, I can see your problem. However, it's no
different than many other places.
My only suggestion would be to run the area with radar in good conditions so
that you can get a feel for what the radar is showing versus what you see.
This can help to draw a "mind" picture of how your set shows various objects
and where the buoys are versus other junk.
Since they appear to be buoyed channels with nearby land, there should be a
visible path through.
Don't get hung up on using the lowest range scale .... use the one which shows
you the the greatest area (within reason ... i.e. you might want to be on 1.5
or 3 mi scale at times) so that so that your screen more closely resembles you
chart.

Shen

One other point here.
Although I'd normally agree that the radar should help show the buoys
against a land background and make your "path" clear, it's hard to judge
what you "do" see on "your" set against what we think you should see.
The point I'd stress, is "practice". Don't just use the radar when
conditions are bad. You need to use it frequently when conditions are
good, so that you learn to interpret what you see .... probably the
biggest problem most recreational (and a lot of professional) boaters
have using radar.

otn

Shen44 wrote:
Umm yep, and if you can see a path thru the returns then it'd be
great.
Unfortunately in that area there is no discernable path without the
colours of the nav aids. the rest are unmaked piles and other jun


Looking at the "chartlet" you sent, I can see your problem. However, it's no
different than many other places.
My only suggestion would be to run the area with radar in good conditions so
that you can get a feel for what the radar is showing versus what you see.
This can help to draw a "mind" picture of how your set shows various objects
and where the buoys are versus other junk.
Since they appear to be buoyed channels with nearby land, there should be a
visible path through.
Don't get hung up on using the lowest range scale .... use the one which shows
you the the greatest area (within reason ... i.e. you might want to be on 1.5
or 3 mi scale at times) so that so that your screen more closely resembles you
chart.

Shen

"Shen44" wrote in message

| My only suggestion would be to run the area with radar in good conditions
so
| that you can get a feel for what the radar is showing versus what you see.
| This can help to draw a "mind" picture of how your set shows various
objects
| and where the buoys are versus other junk.
| Since they appear to be buoyed channels with nearby land, there should be
a
| visible path through.
| Don't get hung up on using the lowest range scale .... use the one which
shows
| you the the greatest area (within reason ... i.e. you might want to be on
1.5
| or 3 mi scale at times) so that so that your screen more closely resembles
you
| chart.

Excellent Advise...... even though we all know you are usually down in the
engine room playing crib while the Wheel House sits unmanned! ;-)

CM

Excellent Advise...... even though we all know you are usually down in the
engine room playing crib while the Wheel House sits unmanned! ;-)

CM


Nah. Too bloody noisy down there.
We play in the "lounge" ..... where we have wired the alarms from the radar and
AIS to a bell. G

Shen

Spoken like a powerboater who "needs" radar on a sunny day.
You only need to run it once in a while, and understand how it
works. Most power boaters run it constantly for ego gratification.

"otnmbrd" wrote

The point I'd stress, is "practice". Don't just use the radar when
conditions are bad. You need to use it frequently when conditions are
good, so that you learn to interpret what you see .... probably the
biggest problem most recreational (and a lot of professional) boaters
have using radar.

OooooozeOne wrote


Pity radar can't show the tall grass that fouls my prop while
docking .


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Bart,
I don't care if you're a "seasonal weekend warrior" or "daily
professional", "sailor" or "powerboater". The only way you will become
proficient with radar, is to use it.
Probably one of the best ways to learn that is to use it during clear,
daylight conditions where you can easily compare what you see visually
with what is on your screen.
The person who thinks that by simply installing radar and having it they
are now a "qualified" operator of radar and only uses it when they
"NEED" to, is an accident waiting to happen.
Understanding how radar works, is one thing. Knowing how to use it and
being proficient at using it, is another.

G off the soapbox

otn


Bart Senior wrote:
Spoken like a powerboater who "needs" radar on a sunny day.
You only need to run it once in a while, and understand how it
works. Most power boaters run it constantly for ego gratification.

"otnmbrd" wrote


The point I'd stress, is "practice". Don't just use the radar when
conditions are bad. You need to use it frequently when conditions are
good, so that you learn to interpret what you see .... probably the
biggest problem most recreational (and a lot of professional) boaters
have using radar.

Right, but you don't need to run it every day!

"otnmbrd" wrote

Bart,
I don't care if you're a "seasonal weekend warrior" or "daily
professional", "sailor" or "powerboater". The only way you will become
proficient with radar, is to use it.
Probably one of the best ways to learn that is to use it during clear,
daylight conditions where you can easily compare what you see visually
with what is on your screen.
The person who thinks that by simply installing radar and having it they
are now a "qualified" operator of radar and only uses it when they
"NEED" to, is an accident waiting to happen.
Understanding how radar works, is one thing. Knowing how to use it and
being proficient at using it, is another.

G off the soapbox

otn

Why not? It's a tool that can help/backup navigation or vessel traffic.
If you're onboard systems can handle it, turn it on. Even if you don't
look at it all day, it was there and ready if you needed it.
Do you leave your GPS turned off until you need it?

otn

Bart Senior wrote:
Right, but you don't need to run it every day!

"otnmbrd" wrote


Bart,
I don't care if you're a "seasonal weekend warrior" or "daily
professional", "sailor" or "powerboater". The only way you will become
proficient with radar, is to use it.
Probably one of the best ways to learn that is to use it during clear,
daylight conditions where you can easily compare what you see visually
with what is on your screen.
The person who thinks that by simply installing radar and having it they
are now a "qualified" operator of radar and only uses it when they
"NEED" to, is an accident waiting to happen.
Understanding how radar works, is one thing. Knowing how to use it and
being proficient at using it, is another.

G off the soapbox

otn

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
| Do you leave your GPS turned off until you need it?

Yeah!..... friggin' batteries cost money!

I understand it's of no concern to you guys... since the few times you are
actually on the bridge you don't really pay any atention to the
instruments.... or anything else unless it's of equal size to your ship.

CM

Yes, most of the time I leave my GPS off until I need it. I leave
it on, when on the ocean as a safety in case of a man overboard
to reverse my track. Under most conditions I leave it off unless
I am checking a range or bearing.

"otnmbrd" wrote

Why not? It's a tool that can help/backup navigation or vessel traffic.
If you're onboard systems can handle it, turn it on. Even if you don't
look at it all day, it was there and ready if you needed it.
Do you leave your GPS turned off until you need it?

otn

Bart Senior wrote:

Right, but you don't need to run it every day!

"otnmbrd" wrote
Bart,
I don't care if you're a "seasonal weekend warrior" or "daily
professional", "sailor" or "powerboater". The only way you will become
proficient with radar, is to use it.

Nah, we have to pay close attention nowadays. The price of "Boottop" and
bottom paint has gone sky-high and the front office frowns on us gett'n
scratches in it.

otn

Capt. Mooron wrote:
"otnmbrd" wrote in message
| Do you leave your GPS turned off until you need it?

Yeah!..... friggin' batteries cost money!

I understand it's of no concern to you guys... since the few times you are
actually on the bridge you don't really pay any atention to the
instruments.... or anything else unless it's of equal size to your ship.

CM

G Again, I'd say, why, but I also understand that resources of
electrical power vary from boat to boat and must be a consideration.
However, the jist of what I'm saying is that a high percentage of us get
limited time underway, whether it's seasonal or year round, and the best
way to keep current or improve our abilities with this equipment, is to
use it as frequently as possible in as many ways, as possible.

otn

Bart Senior wrote:
Yes, most of the time I leave my GPS off until I need it. I leave
it on, when on the ocean as a safety in case of a man overboard
to reverse my track. Under most conditions I leave it off unless
I am checking a range or bearing.

"otnmbrd" wrote


Why not? It's a tool that can help/backup navigation or vessel traffic.
If you're onboard systems can handle it, turn it on. Even if you don't
look at it all day, it was there and ready if you needed it.
Do you leave your GPS turned off until you need it?

otn

Bart Senior wrote:


Right, but you don't need to run it every day!

"otnmbrd" wrote

Bart,
I don't care if you're a "seasonal weekend warrior" or "daily
professional", "sailor" or "powerboater". The only way you will become
proficient with radar, is to use it.

"Bart Senior" wrote in message et...
Spoken like a powerboater who "needs" radar on a sunny day.


I disagree bart,

You speak like a siaor that never sail in bad weather that included
heavy fog.
One of the smartest thing you can do is learn the radar picture like
the back of your hand. Once that is done then I agree, no since
running it all the time.


You only need to run it once in a while, and understand how it
works.

Not so, you need to know every dock, bouy, landmark by radar if you
have it. Once you learn all that then feel free to turn it off when
not needed.


Most power boaters run it constantly for ego gratification.

Some do, and most likely they do not even look at the picture, they
just think it looks cool to have the scanner spinning. But a
professional learns to get the most out of his radar when it is truly
needed.

Joe




"otnmbrd" wrote

The point I'd stress, is "practice". Don't just use the radar when
conditions are bad. You need to use it frequently when conditions are
good, so that you learn to interpret what you see .... probably the
biggest problem most recreational (and a lot of professional) boaters
have using radar.