On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:55:40 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

I don't know about that. I don't see how getting rid of Cheney
would help or hurt his chances.

That is a complex question and I am fairly certain I am only seeing it
from my viewpoint, but I personally think Cheney is much more the
problem than Bush. GWB didn't have any real agenda or strongly held
beliefs when he took office. Let's face it, he is basically a laid
back underachiever. When he was Governor of Texas, the State was
basically run by a very strong (Democratic) Lt. Governor with whom
Bush got along very well. Of course in Texas the Lt Governor is a
more powerful position than Governor, but that was one of the reasons
that people thought he was more moderate than he has proven to be in
Washington. Bush didn't have the experience or the strength of his
own convictions to set his own course.

If, as an example, John McCain were chosen to be VP in the last
election do you really think we would have all this mess? On the
other hand, Cheney is hugely popular with the far right wing of the
party, which is the "base" of the Republicans these days.

Perhaps I am biased because having met and visited with GWB over the
years one on one I like the guy personally and just don't see him as a
"bad guy". Too inexperienced and unprepared to be a wartime president
or probably even a peacetime president, I agree, but Cheney is the
real problem with this ticket, IMO.

That said, Cheny isn't going anywhere because if there is one thing
you can count on from GWB...he will never admit a mistake. He would
rather lose than do that.

Thunder,

I, would put Truman in that group. He changed this country and the WORLD
with the Truman Doctrine/Marshal plan.

It's still amasses me how this country comes up with the right leader
when the need is there;
Revolution----Washington
War of 1812----Monroe
Civil War-----Lincoln
Spanish American----Teddy Roosevelt
WW1-----Wilson
WW2-----FDR/ Truman

In this time of need I'm hoping Kerry will fill the bill. King George
came up short!!

Ole Thom

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:28:18 -0700, Thom Stewart wrote:

Thunder,

I, would put Truman in that group. He changed this country and the WORLD
with the Truman Doctrine/Marshal plan.

It's still amasses me how this country comes up with the right leader when
the need is there;

I'm wondering if it's the chicken or the egg. It would be nice to think
that we picked them, but I think we have been lucky that our leaders have
been able to step up to the job. Truman is a case in point. He became
President when Roosevelt died, and when he faced election "Dewey Won". He
was a great President.

Revolution----Washington
War of 1812----Monroe
Civil War-----Lincoln
Spanish American----Teddy Roosevelt
WW1-----Wilson
WW2-----FDR/ Truman

In this time of need I'm hoping Kerry will fill the bill. King George came
up short!!

Ole Thom

"felton" wrote in message
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:55:40 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"

I don't know about that. I don't see how getting rid of Cheney
would help or hurt his chances.

That is a complex question and I am fairly certain I am only seeing it
from my viewpoint, but I personally think Cheney is much more the
problem than Bush. GWB didn't have any real agenda or strongly held
beliefs when he took office. Let's face it, he is basically a laid
back underachiever. When he was Governor of Texas, the State was
basically run by a very strong (Democratic) Lt. Governor with whom
Bush got along very well. Of course in Texas the Lt Governor is a
more powerful position than Governor, but that was one of the reasons
that people thought he was more moderate than he has proven to be in
Washington. Bush didn't have the experience or the strength of his
own convictions to set his own course.

If, as an example, John McCain were chosen to be VP in the last
election do you really think we would have all this mess? On the
other hand, Cheney is hugely popular with the far right wing of the
party, which is the "base" of the Republicans these days.

Perhaps I am biased because having met and visited with GWB over the
years one on one I like the guy personally and just don't see him as a
"bad guy". Too inexperienced and unprepared to be a wartime president
or probably even a peacetime president, I agree, but Cheney is the
real problem with this ticket, IMO.

That said, Cheny isn't going anywhere because if there is one thing
you can count on from GWB...he will never admit a mistake. He would
rather lose than do that.

I think this is probably a rather accurate description of the prez. Pretty
much dovetails with my own take.

Max