Damned Heat
 

Thanks - maybe its time I learned a new skill like pipefitting.

But being lazy, I'd probably go with a ready made, like:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_...vaporators.asp

BTW, I decided it was time to start dealing with my fridge, so I got the needed
license to buy Freon and service cars. It took about an hour of work to
complete the online test at www.ase.com. I'm now an EPA certified refrigeration
mechanic! (scary thought, isn't it?)

jeff



"Scout" wrote in message
...
I ran a length of 3/8" OD soft copper tubing inside 7/8" copper tubing. I
made a tight set of rows using 7/8" 90 deg copper elbows, so the outside of
the condenser is squarish. But, this made it extremely difficult to fish the
3/8 through it. If I were to make another, I would layout a straight length
of 7/8" soft tubing, then insert a slightly longer length of 3/8" soft
tubing inside the 7/8", then roll the whole thing into as tight a circle as
possible (no easy task either, but doable).
Solder a 7/8" copper tee on each end. The 3/8" tubing passes through the
tees at both ends, (either bush the 7/8" down to 3/8" or pinch and braze a
short 7/8 stub around the 3/8 for a water tight seal. The third tee opening
at each end is your fresh water inlet and outlet. I solder hose adapters on
here and this is where I connect the garden hoses. I put a Taco 007
circulating pump in series with the 7/8 tubing. The other end of both hoses
connects to a second coil of copper tubing. I used 5/8" her (M, or thin
copper for easier heat transfer). I formed mine into a rough triangle shape
so it would fit in the anchor locker, around the anchor, when not in use.
If you don't mind making (or buying) a new heat exchanger every year or so,
you could pump seawater through the exchanger. It does make the job a bit
simpler.
One end of the 3/8" tubing ends connect to the compressor discharge (outlet)
and the other end becomes attaches to the expansion device (probably a
capillary tube). Be sure to use a filter-drier between the 3/8 and the
capillary tubing.
Best practice is to pull the system into a vacuum before charging it with
refrigerant. I've it done plenty of times though, if you didn't have a
vacuum pump, that you could just purge the system with refrigerant to
displace the air. This works, but there are a few problems with it (e.g.,
it's illegal in the USA to purge refrigerant to the atmosphere, it shortens
the life of the system by not removing all the moisture and non-condensable
gases that are surely still present in the system).
I F'd up and let the water sit in mine all winter and of course the water
froze and damaged the tubing. I made it a lesson plan at school though; I
brought it in with my torch, then taught a quick lesson on brazing, and
turned it over to my 10th graders. They learned how to braze and I got my
system working again.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I was curious about your homemade condenser - how did you make it and did
you
have to vacuum down the system to install it?


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.
I've spent most of my life in mechanical construction (steamfitter).
It's
all about boiler rooms, city rooftops, and stifling mechanical rooms. In
the
winter you freeze, in the summer, you sometimes work 'til you puke. On
one
of those hot days I made a vow to myself to be cool and dry when I'm
relaxing. My next sailboat (it's gonna have to wait until I move next
year)
will have a less obtrusive, factory designed unit. Until then this will
have
to do. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,
I want you tknow that this week I've been very envious of your set-up.

Ole Thom

Damned Heat
 

"Scout" wrote ...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.

I don't know..........sitting in a pool, naked girls feeding you grapes,
more naked girls fanning with those big palm leaves.........more naked girls
pouring wine.........

Damned Heat
 

I understand the inside plumbing, but what is the triangle in the anchor
locker for?

SV

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I ran a length of 3/8" OD soft copper tubing inside 7/8" copper tubing. I
made a tight set of rows using 7/8" 90 deg copper elbows, so the outside
of
the condenser is squarish. But, this made it extremely difficult to fish
the
3/8 through it. If I were to make another, I would layout a straight
length
of 7/8" soft tubing, then insert a slightly longer length of 3/8" soft
tubing inside the 7/8", then roll the whole thing into as tight a circle
as
possible (no easy task either, but doable).
Solder a 7/8" copper tee on each end. The 3/8" tubing passes through the
tees at both ends, (either bush the 7/8" down to 3/8" or pinch and braze a
short 7/8 stub around the 3/8 for a water tight seal. The third tee
opening
at each end is your fresh water inlet and outlet. I solder hose adapters
on
here and this is where I connect the garden hoses. I put a Taco 007
circulating pump in series with the 7/8 tubing. The other end of both
hoses
connects to a second coil of copper tubing. I used 5/8" her (M, or thin
copper for easier heat transfer). I formed mine into a rough triangle
shape
so it would fit in the anchor locker, around the anchor, when not in use.
If you don't mind making (or buying) a new heat exchanger every year or
so,
you could pump seawater through the exchanger. It does make the job a bit
simpler.
One end of the 3/8" tubing ends connect to the compressor discharge
(outlet)
and the other end becomes attaches to the expansion device (probably a
capillary tube). Be sure to use a filter-drier between the 3/8 and the
capillary tubing.
Best practice is to pull the system into a vacuum before charging it with
refrigerant. I've it done plenty of times though, if you didn't have a
vacuum pump, that you could just purge the system with refrigerant to
displace the air. This works, but there are a few problems with it (e.g.,
it's illegal in the USA to purge refrigerant to the atmosphere, it
shortens
the life of the system by not removing all the moisture and
non-condensable
gases that are surely still present in the system).
I F'd up and let the water sit in mine all winter and of course the water
froze and damaged the tubing. I made it a lesson plan at school though; I
brought it in with my torch, then taught a quick lesson on brazing, and
turned it over to my 10th graders. They learned how to braze and I got my
system working again.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I was curious about your homemade condenser - how did you make it and
did
you
have to vacuum down the system to install it?


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.
I've spent most of my life in mechanical construction (steamfitter).
It's
all about boiler rooms, city rooftops, and stifling mechanical rooms.
In
the
winter you freeze, in the summer, you sometimes work 'til you puke. On
one
of those hot days I made a vow to myself to be cool and dry when I'm
relaxing. My next sailboat (it's gonna have to wait until I move next
year)
will have a less obtrusive, factory designed unit. Until then this
will
have
to do. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,
I want you tknow that this week I've been very envious of your
set-up.

Ole Thom

Damned Heat
 

"Scout" wrote in message
...
Scott - a question:
Right now my boat is trailerable in the Class C driving sense. If I wanted
to buy a bigger boat and transport it (using my CDL A lic), how big of a
boat would you say could be pulled with our Freightliner?

Bigger than you could afford. ;)

I'm guessing the
height would be an issue before anything else.

Take the mast off first.



Still, If I found a boat that
was not in the area, I have access to the tractor and maybe could rent a
trailer to bring it home.


I don't know where you could rent an appropriate trailer? With a normal
low-boy like mine, (you'd need a cradle) your boat can be 12' high without
permits. 'Boat haulers' put the keel almost on the ground so the boat can be
around 13' and still be legal. Any height (practical to around 16') can be
transported with permits.
Over 8'6'' beam you'll need permits also. No escorts up to around 12' 6''.
(differs w/each state).
If you're talking about short haul, say within Joisey, you could get away
without a permit (Joisey permits are cheap [$20]). Don't forget tolls ($90
to cross the GWB). And you're NOT allowed on the NJ/TP. And certain cities
and bridges have 'curfews'. You can't drive at night. The list goes
on.......

Call me when you find your dream boat.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__



Just a idea - a' brewin' in me 'ead.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Now I remember that post. I thought about using a small window unit,
placed
in the cockpit using AC flex ducts for the cold air, but so far my two
12V
fans have been adequate.

--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I did a long winded post about a year ago in which I detailed how I
modified
a window unit (Wal-Mart 90 bucks) to make it a water cooled unit. 2
garden
hoses leave the cabin via flanged hose adapters in the anchor locker.
It
works very much like the coolant system of a car. A small water pump
forces
fresh, heated water through a hose to a coil of copper tubing
(performs
the
function of a radiator) which stows with the anchor when not in use,
when
in
use, it simply lays in the water, hung from the forward rail, to
transfer
cabin heat to the bay water. the cooled water returns to a home-made
refrigerant (freon)-to-water heat exchanger. The condensate drains to
my
bilge and is pumped out as needed. I saw somewhere else where someone
was
talking about bleach in the bilge (and Martha Stewart) -er ah, I do
that
too
from time to time. It works well.
In all honesty, I'm too lazy to use it too often; only when I'm highly
motivated by discomfort to I use it.
Water cooled units are available commercially (they are used
frequently
in
commercial hvac work), but they can be pricey.
When I pulled into my slip in Beach Haven last summer, my closest
neighbor
was a retired NASA engineer. The marina owner, who knew the engineer
well,
asked me to time how long it took the engineer to ask "what the hell
is
that
thing." It took 3 minutes.
Scout


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
*In* the V-berth? Where does the water drain? Hot air escape?




"Scout" wrote in message
...
It never moves. It's pushed as far forward as it can go on my
V-berth.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Where do you put the AC while it's running?


"Scout" wrote in message

...
I got the ultra-quiet Honda genny (EU2000). It's light and
quiet
and
has
no
problem with a 13,500 btu AC unit. A bit on the pricey side
but
a
nice
addition. We only use it when anchored and extremely
hot/humid.
We
leave
the
cabin open as the cool air tends to lay down below, unless the
mosquitoes
are feeding. The AC is hardly noticeable tucked as far forward
as
can
be
(5000 btu).

Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
They have small units for $65~$80 at appliance stores.
Problem
as
I
see
it,
many who have AC stay at the dock on hot days.

--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__

"Scout" wrote in message

...
What's stopping you from getting one? I would certainly
have
had
one
if
they
were available in my day!
J. Slocum.

"Bart Senior" wrote
I wish I had Air Conditioning on the boat {snip}

Damned Heat
 

hehe, well, regarding the epa test, they just want to make sure they have
you in a corner if they need to prosecute.
The water cooled exchangers look good, price is not bad.
If you decide to put one together, I would strongly recommend removing the
capillary (if one is used) and replacing with a thermostatic expansion
valve. My Walmart unit was cheap, and I was willing to play with the charge
and hope for the best, but if I were investing more cash in a system, I'd
want it to run at it's highest capacity and also protect the compressor from
flood back. It wouldn't hurt to throw in a high pressure switch too, just in
case your pump fails.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Thanks - maybe its time I learned a new skill like pipefitting.

But being lazy, I'd probably go with a ready made, like:

http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_...vaporators.asp

BTW, I decided it was time to start dealing with my fridge, so I got the
needed
license to buy Freon and service cars. It took about an hour of work to
complete the online test at www.ase.com. I'm now an EPA certified
refrigeration
mechanic! (scary thought, isn't it?)

jeff



"Scout" wrote in message
...
I ran a length of 3/8" OD soft copper tubing inside 7/8" copper tubing.
I
made a tight set of rows using 7/8" 90 deg copper elbows, so the outside
of
the condenser is squarish. But, this made it extremely difficult to fish
the
3/8 through it. If I were to make another, I would layout a straight
length
of 7/8" soft tubing, then insert a slightly longer length of 3/8" soft
tubing inside the 7/8", then roll the whole thing into as tight a circle
as
possible (no easy task either, but doable).
Solder a 7/8" copper tee on each end. The 3/8" tubing passes through the
tees at both ends, (either bush the 7/8" down to 3/8" or pinch and braze
a
short 7/8 stub around the 3/8 for a water tight seal. The third tee
opening
at each end is your fresh water inlet and outlet. I solder hose adapters
on
here and this is where I connect the garden hoses. I put a Taco 007
circulating pump in series with the 7/8 tubing. The other end of both
hoses
connects to a second coil of copper tubing. I used 5/8" her (M, or thin
copper for easier heat transfer). I formed mine into a rough triangle
shape
so it would fit in the anchor locker, around the anchor, when not in
use.
If you don't mind making (or buying) a new heat exchanger every year or
so,
you could pump seawater through the exchanger. It does make the job a
bit
simpler.
One end of the 3/8" tubing ends connect to the compressor discharge
(outlet)
and the other end becomes attaches to the expansion device (probably a
capillary tube). Be sure to use a filter-drier between the 3/8 and the
capillary tubing.
Best practice is to pull the system into a vacuum before charging it
with
refrigerant. I've it done plenty of times though, if you didn't have a
vacuum pump, that you could just purge the system with refrigerant to
displace the air. This works, but there are a few problems with it
(e.g.,
it's illegal in the USA to purge refrigerant to the atmosphere, it
shortens
the life of the system by not removing all the moisture and
non-condensable
gases that are surely still present in the system).
I F'd up and let the water sit in mine all winter and of course the
water
froze and damaged the tubing. I made it a lesson plan at school though;
I
brought it in with my torch, then taught a quick lesson on brazing, and
turned it over to my 10th graders. They learned how to braze and I got
my
system working again.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I was curious about your homemade condenser - how did you make it and
did
you
have to vacuum down the system to install it?


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No
past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.
I've spent most of my life in mechanical construction (steamfitter).
It's
all about boiler rooms, city rooftops, and stifling mechanical
rooms. In
the
winter you freeze, in the summer, you sometimes work 'til you puke.
On
one
of those hot days I made a vow to myself to be cool and dry when I'm
relaxing. My next sailboat (it's gonna have to wait until I move
next
year)
will have a less obtrusive, factory designed unit. Until then this
will
have
to do. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,
I want you tknow that this week I've been very envious of your
set-up.

Ole Thom

Damned Heat
 

it's preshaped for a danforth (the rough triangle). I attempted to make the
most efficient use of the space available by shaping the tubing to fit
around the anchor. It's a bit crowded but it fits.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I understand the inside plumbing, but what is the triangle in the anchor
locker for?

SV

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I ran a length of 3/8" OD soft copper tubing inside 7/8" copper tubing.
I
made a tight set of rows using 7/8" 90 deg copper elbows, so the outside
of
the condenser is squarish. But, this made it extremely difficult to fish
the
3/8 through it. If I were to make another, I would layout a straight
length
of 7/8" soft tubing, then insert a slightly longer length of 3/8" soft
tubing inside the 7/8", then roll the whole thing into as tight a circle
as
possible (no easy task either, but doable).
Solder a 7/8" copper tee on each end. The 3/8" tubing passes through the
tees at both ends, (either bush the 7/8" down to 3/8" or pinch and braze
a
short 7/8 stub around the 3/8 for a water tight seal. The third tee
opening
at each end is your fresh water inlet and outlet. I solder hose adapters
on
here and this is where I connect the garden hoses. I put a Taco 007
circulating pump in series with the 7/8 tubing. The other end of both
hoses
connects to a second coil of copper tubing. I used 5/8" her (M, or thin
copper for easier heat transfer). I formed mine into a rough triangle
shape
so it would fit in the anchor locker, around the anchor, when not in
use.
If you don't mind making (or buying) a new heat exchanger every year or
so,
you could pump seawater through the exchanger. It does make the job a
bit
simpler.
One end of the 3/8" tubing ends connect to the compressor discharge
(outlet)
and the other end becomes attaches to the expansion device (probably a
capillary tube). Be sure to use a filter-drier between the 3/8 and the
capillary tubing.
Best practice is to pull the system into a vacuum before charging it
with
refrigerant. I've it done plenty of times though, if you didn't have a
vacuum pump, that you could just purge the system with refrigerant to
displace the air. This works, but there are a few problems with it
(e.g.,
it's illegal in the USA to purge refrigerant to the atmosphere, it
shortens
the life of the system by not removing all the moisture and
non-condensable
gases that are surely still present in the system).
I F'd up and let the water sit in mine all winter and of course the
water
froze and damaged the tubing. I made it a lesson plan at school though;
I
brought it in with my torch, then taught a quick lesson on brazing, and
turned it over to my 10th graders. They learned how to braze and I got
my
system working again.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I was curious about your homemade condenser - how did you make it and
did
you
have to vacuum down the system to install it?


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No
past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.
I've spent most of my life in mechanical construction (steamfitter).
It's
all about boiler rooms, city rooftops, and stifling mechanical
rooms.
In
the
winter you freeze, in the summer, you sometimes work 'til you puke.
On
one
of those hot days I made a vow to myself to be cool and dry when I'm
relaxing. My next sailboat (it's gonna have to wait until I move
next
year)
will have a less obtrusive, factory designed unit. Until then this
will
have
to do. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,
I want you tknow that this week I've been very envious of your
set-up.

Ole Thom

Damned Heat
 

you don't have that now?
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"Scout" wrote ...
Thom,
AC ranks right up there with indoor plumbing and anti-biotics. No past
king
or queen lived better than we in those regards.

I don't know..........sitting in a pool, naked girls feeding you grapes,
more naked girls fanning with those big palm leaves.........more naked
girls
pouring wine.........

Damned Heat
 

Man, that's way too many rules!
I better stick with my Ram 2500
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Scout" wrote in message
...
Scott - a question:
Right now my boat is trailerable in the Class C driving sense. If I
wanted
to buy a bigger boat and transport it (using my CDL A lic), how big of a
boat would you say could be pulled with our Freightliner?

Bigger than you could afford. ;)

I'm guessing the
height would be an issue before anything else.

Take the mast off first.



Still, If I found a boat that
was not in the area, I have access to the tractor and maybe could rent a
trailer to bring it home.


I don't know where you could rent an appropriate trailer? With a normal
low-boy like mine, (you'd need a cradle) your boat can be 12' high without
permits. 'Boat haulers' put the keel almost on the ground so the boat can
be
around 13' and still be legal. Any height (practical to around 16') can
be
transported with permits.
Over 8'6'' beam you'll need permits also. No escorts up to around 12' 6''.
(differs w/each state).
If you're talking about short haul, say within Joisey, you could get away
without a permit (Joisey permits are cheap [$20]). Don't forget tolls
($90
to cross the GWB). And you're NOT allowed on the NJ/TP. And certain
cities
and bridges have 'curfews'. You can't drive at night. The list goes
on.......

Call me when you find your dream boat.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__



Just a idea - a' brewin' in me 'ead.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Now I remember that post. I thought about using a small window unit,
placed
in the cockpit using AC flex ducts for the cold air, but so far my two
12V
fans have been adequate.

--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I did a long winded post about a year ago in which I detailed how I
modified
a window unit (Wal-Mart 90 bucks) to make it a water cooled unit. 2
garden
hoses leave the cabin via flanged hose adapters in the anchor
locker.
It
works very much like the coolant system of a car. A small water pump
forces
fresh, heated water through a hose to a coil of copper tubing
(performs
the
function of a radiator) which stows with the anchor when not in use,
when
in
use, it simply lays in the water, hung from the forward rail, to
transfer
cabin heat to the bay water. the cooled water returns to a home-made
refrigerant (freon)-to-water heat exchanger. The condensate drains
to
my
bilge and is pumped out as needed. I saw somewhere else where
someone
was
talking about bleach in the bilge (and Martha Stewart) -er ah, I do
that
too
from time to time. It works well.
In all honesty, I'm too lazy to use it too often; only when I'm
highly
motivated by discomfort to I use it.
Water cooled units are available commercially (they are used
frequently
in
commercial hvac work), but they can be pricey.
When I pulled into my slip in Beach Haven last summer, my closest
neighbor
was a retired NASA engineer. The marina owner, who knew the engineer
well,
asked me to time how long it took the engineer to ask "what the hell
is
that
thing." It took 3 minutes.
Scout


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
*In* the V-berth? Where does the water drain? Hot air escape?




"Scout" wrote in message
...
It never moves. It's pushed as far forward as it can go on my
V-berth.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Where do you put the AC while it's running?


"Scout" wrote in message

...
I got the ultra-quiet Honda genny (EU2000). It's light and
quiet
and
has
no
problem with a 13,500 btu AC unit. A bit on the pricey side
but
a
nice
addition. We only use it when anchored and extremely
hot/humid.
We
leave
the
cabin open as the cool air tends to lay down below, unless
the
mosquitoes
are feeding. The AC is hardly noticeable tucked as far
forward
as
can
be
(5000 btu).

Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
They have small units for $65~$80 at appliance stores.
Problem
as
I
see
it,
many who have AC stay at the dock on hot days.

--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__

"Scout" wrote in message

...
What's stopping you from getting one? I would certainly
have
had
one
if
they
were available in my day!
J. Slocum.

"Bart Senior" wrote
I wish I had Air Conditioning on the boat {snip}

Damned Heat
 

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:38:46 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:


I don't know..........sitting in a pool, naked girls feeding you grapes,
more naked girls fanning with those big palm leaves.........more naked girls
pouring wine.........


Sounds like the good time I had at the strip club last night.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Damned Heat
 

With your boyfriends... yuck.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:38:46 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:


I don't know..........sitting in a pool, naked girls feeding you grapes,
more naked girls fanning with those big palm leaves.........more naked
girls
pouring wine.........


Sounds like the good time I had at the strip club last night.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!