On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:05:36 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

This implies that we won't find viable alternatives between now and then.
There will probably be some severe problems in high population 3rd world
countries, but they already have these problems. The 1st world will be
much less affected.

I'm not so sure. Alternatives? As an energy source, perhaps, but for
plastics, medicines, fertilizers, perhaps not. Also, as peak oil is now,
time is running out. A little factoid, the US population consumes its
entire weight in oil . . . every week.

http://www.oilcrisis.com/debate/oilcalcs.htm

Right, but the vast majority of our use of oil is for cars. Remember,
we have lots of oil in the US. We could be self-sufficient if we wanted
to. I suggest raising gas prices to $5/gallon. Give the automakers lots
of incentives to increase fuel efficiency and create alternative cars.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:05:36 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

This implies that we won't find viable alternatives between now and
then.
There will probably be some severe problems in high population 3rd world
countries, but they already have these problems. The 1st world will be
much less affected.

I'm not so sure. Alternatives? As an energy source, perhaps, but for
plastics, medicines, fertilizers, perhaps not. Also, as peak oil is now,
time is running out. A little factoid, the US population consumes its
entire weight in oil . . . every week.

http://www.oilcrisis.com/debate/oilcalcs.htm

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:07:35 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Right, but the vast majority of our use of oil is for cars. Remember, we
have lots of oil in the US. We could be self-sufficient if we wanted to. I
suggest raising gas prices to $5/gallon. Give the automakers lots of
incentives to increase fuel efficiency and create alternative cars.

65% of the America's oil has already been burned. We could have been
self-sufficient, but now? Unless there is a massive and comprehensive
energy policy installed immediately, *we* may have oil, but our children
will have to live without.

http://www.faultline.org/news/2001/1...ependence.html

Well, assuming that was true, we still have a vast supply left.
If we don't use it for cars, we should have plenty of time to
develop alternatives even for medicines, etc. It's easy to
say the sky is falling, but people have been saying that for
years...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:07:35 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Right, but the vast majority of our use of oil is for cars. Remember, we
have lots of oil in the US. We could be self-sufficient if we wanted to.
I
suggest raising gas prices to $5/gallon. Give the automakers lots of
incentives to increase fuel efficiency and create alternative cars.

65% of the America's oil has already been burned. We could have been
self-sufficient, but now? Unless there is a massive and comprehensive
energy policy installed immediately, *we* may have oil, but our children
will have to live without.

http://www.faultline.org/news/2001/1...ependence.html

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:46:55 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Well, assuming that was true, we still have a vast supply left. If we
don't use it for cars, we should have plenty of time to develop
alternatives even for medicines, etc. It's easy to say the sky is falling,
but people have been saying that for years...

I'm not saying we don't have time, I'm saying that the time we have is
getting short and we still don't have a comprehensive energy policy.
Upthread, you asked about a recession. As our economy is now based on
cheap oil, when oil is not cheap there will be, at a minimum, economic
consequences. You are right, people have been saying the sky is falling
for years, but one thing is absolutely certain, oil is a *finite* gift.
One day, the sky will be falling. I'm saying that day is sooner rather
than later.

Damn, and we ran out of dinasours... I wish we could get
moving. I'm seriously thinking about buying a hybrid, but
they're just not quite what I need. The Ford Escape is
pretty close.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:46:55 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Well, assuming that was true, we still have a vast supply left. If we
don't use it for cars, we should have plenty of time to develop
alternatives even for medicines, etc. It's easy to say the sky is
falling,
but people have been saying that for years...

I'm not saying we don't have time, I'm saying that the time we have is
getting short and we still don't have a comprehensive energy policy.
Upthread, you asked about a recession. As our economy is now based on
cheap oil, when oil is not cheap there will be, at a minimum, economic
consequences. You are right, people have been saying the sky is falling
for years, but one thing is absolutely certain, oil is a *finite* gift.
One day, the sky will be falling. I'm saying that day is sooner rather
than later.

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
... we have lots of oil in the US. We could be self-sufficient if we
wanted to.

Now that's ridiculous.

--
jlrogers±³©
Never date a woman you can hear ticking. - Mark Patinkin

Eschew Obfuscation.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:07:35 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Right, but the vast majority of our use of oil is for cars. Remember,
we have lots of oil in the US. We could be self-sufficient if we wanted
to. I suggest raising gas prices to $5/gallon.


That's going to make you popular, assclown.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:25:26 -0400, "Michael"
wrote this crap:

Actually I first read the same statement about 30 years ago almost word for
word. The only difference was gas was supposed to rise to a cost $2 a
gallon. You will however see $5 a gallon gas talked about and like the
early seventies it may even rise to that but not for purposes of conserving
energy. Rather for purposes of raising funds to pay off the, created by
both political partys, national debt. You can't tax $1.50 on $2.00 a gallon
gasoline just as back then you couldn't tax 65 cents on 35 cent a gallon


I wanted a tax on stupid people, but I found out we already have one.
It's called a "lottery."


Now why don't we have a tax on lottery tickets?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Ya know, I have 20 years of Mother Earth News magazines. The 'experts'
used to say exactly the same thing.

Back in the 1970's.

PDW

In article , thunder
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:46:55 -0700, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Well, assuming that was true, we still have a vast supply left. If we
don't use it for cars, we should have plenty of time to develop
alternatives even for medicines, etc. It's easy to say the sky is falling,
but people have been saying that for years...

I'm not saying we don't have time, I'm saying that the time we have is
getting short and we still don't have a comprehensive energy policy.
Upthread, you asked about a recession. As our economy is now based on
cheap oil, when oil is not cheap there will be, at a minimum, economic
consequences. You are right, people have been saying the sky is falling
for years, but one thing is absolutely certain, oil is a *finite* gift.
One day, the sky will be falling. I'm saying that day is sooner rather
than later.