Seamanship Question #1
 

Had to jump on this one Katy!

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt Turn into the wind to reduce
pressure; sheet in the main to near the centerline and use the sail itself
along with the mainsheet to provide aft direction support. Secure both
broken ends to prevent fouling.

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

Going up wind the mainsail and mainsheet will act to secure the mast in
that direction. If you have running backstays consider using them. If you
have a proper four lower shroud setup to begin with that will, along with
usingthe main and mainsheet reduce the problem to manageable proportions.
Finally you can replacethe mains'lwith the topping lift if itisn't wimpy or
one of the forward halyards (the main halyard will be busy bringingdown the
main sail at this point, and use it in place of the topping lift. The
advantagehere is the mechanical purchase of the mainsheet to boom to sail,
topping lift, or otherhalyard gives you a good tight temporary fix. Which
to use depends on what rigging set up is present

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

Then one or all of the following. If you can secure the broken mast head
end of the backstay secure it aft with a bit of line and tighten using a
winch or even a truckers hitch. Make sure the broken deck end is not
fouling rudder or prop. Run the spinnaker or other spare foremast halyard
aft andsecure it. If all else is under control bridge the break. I keep a
short bit of stay/halyard wire and some wire clips in my emergency locker
for just this purpose.


What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

If you are using the sail/topping lift/halyard as a topping lift to
mainsheet configuration which means not using the mainsail you can run the
end of the mainsheet through a block to one of the winches. If you repaired
the aftstay with a clipped bridging wire you can't rig a hauling line to the
are of the wireclips andrun the same to a winch.


Limited fuel, water, food means something else went wrong earlier and also
means I can't float around waiting for Boats US. But in this circumstance
while I wouldn't pop an EPIRB I would send out a Pan message and ask to have
it passed to the coasties or similar.

M.

Seamanship Question #1
 

By small you mean less than 26' I take it. Never fear you wouldn't catch me
that far out in something less than 20' that's for sure!

M.

"Wally" wrote in message
...
SAIL LOCO wrote:

In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore
in a small boat.

A good point - I can't see me doing that, either.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

Never catch me that far offshore in a 'wee' boat. 26' was small enough
even though it is a proper British built Westerly. BUT they sure are fun to
drive in the right places. My 18 footer was a Mercury class sloop. What do
you have?

Michael

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Bart Senior wrote:

I'd sheet in the main while I brought the second jib halyard to the
back of the boat. In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore
in a small boat.

Who said it was small?

I think it came from me referring to my 'wee boat' with the double lowers,
which is an 18-footer.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

Thanks Wally! I'll look forward to the photos. I'm having all sorts of
difficulty posting some of mine to people so it looks like a trip to the
computer wizard store. Oh for the days of Eudora!

M.

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

Never catch me that far offshore in a 'wee' boat. 26' was small
enough even though it is a proper British built Westerly. BUT they
sure are fun to drive in the right places. My 18 footer was a
Mercury class sloop. What do you have?

A Copland Foxcub, which I've called 'Hispaniola'. Not in the water - I'm
gradually doing what has turned out to be something of a restoration. It's
a
1972 and is the fin keel version (they also made bilge and swing keels).
By
all accounts, the fin keeler points well, which was a major reason for
choosing it. Once in the water, the plan is to use it for round-the-cans
club races, daysails and short cruises around my local waters - the Firth
Of
Forth in Scotland, which is big enough to require at least an overnighter
to
get to the more distant parts from the marina. One of my little ambitions
is
to circumnavigate all of the islands on the Forth, preferably in one trip.

I currently get a regular twice-a-week racing fix on a Sonata (22' 7") -
been crewing on that since the start of the season. I was out on a Sigma
38
today - the Queen Mary 2 was anchored in the Forth prior to heading over
to
Norway, so a few boats went out for a look-see (photos to webshots soon).
We
were out for about three hours, two of which were spent sailing in circles
around the ship.

The Sigma is the first yacht I've sailed other than the Sonata, and I was
most impressed. I had the helm for about 45 minutes to an hour and I was
surprised at how light it all felt. I had half-expected something that
size
to feel heavier and turn more sluggishly, but it all seemed eminently
drivable. Getting the jib in on tacks was easy enough as well, only having
to winch a bit if the timing wasn't quite right (wind was light at 8-9
knots).


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

Seamanship Question #1
 

Bart Senior wrote:
You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

Point the nose into the wind to take the strain off the rig.


What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

On my wee boat, I might be tempted to trust the double lowers until I can
jury rig something. Ease the jib halyard and maybe slacken the forestay.
Ease the downhaul and sheet the main n hard (or tighten the vang?) to try
and get the leech tighter than the luff? Possibly rig a line around the
mast, over the spreaders, and secure to some aft cleats.


What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

Topping lift, perhaps (might not be strong enough), or the main halyard if
its feasible to sail under jib alone. If there's a spinnaker halyard, that
could be used.


What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]


Could drop the main and attach a second line to the head, then raise the
main and secure the new line aft.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

I'd sheet in the main while I brought the second jib halyard to the back of the
boat. In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore in a small boat.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

Seamanship Question #1
 

You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]
Put the boat in irons.
Quick grab the spin halyard and pull it around back and tie it down to
something, then reduce sail.....

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

Do what I said in number 1....

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

The spin halyard or you could use the jib halyard and just sail on the main

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

Yark down the boom vang.... and tighten down the boom with the mainsheet...





--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Seamanship Question #1
 

Let go the jib sheet Bring the main near middle traveler position and
get a much Leech tension as possible. Mainsheet, vang lazy jacks,jumper
stays (If available). Get the Jib down

Then on "Pneuma" I have enough tail on my topping lift to go thru the
low rail on my stern pulpit and back to a Jenny Winch to re-tension the
main. Then I'd set-up a Barber haul to make it a semi-permanent
back-stay and sail home.

Seamanship Question #1
 

SAIL LOCO wrote:

In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore
in a small boat.

A good point - I can't see me doing that, either.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

In addition to what everyone else said, furl or drop the jib - don't let it
flog too long.

Secure the broken stay.

Lead the temporary backstay/halyard through a snatch to a winch to get it as
tight as possible.

Rig the running backs if you have 'em.

Put out a securite.

Seamanship Question #1
 

Who said it was small?

SAIL LOCO wrote

I'd sheet in the main while I brought the second jib halyard to the back
of the
boat. In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore in a small boat.

Seamanship Question #1
 

wrote

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:29:19 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote:

You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]


Depower the sails or head further upwind. Why did the backstay fail?

Pull the backstay into the boat and find out. Probably a rigging failure.


What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

any free halyard.

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]


Don't forget the mainsheet. Sheeting in hard will help support
the mast. And since you are hard on the wind, your sail trim
should still be nearly optimal.


??? There is still some back tension on the rig from shrouds. The
temporary use
of a halyard should be sufficient to get you home as long as you go easy.

BB

Seamanship Question #1
 

Everyone did well on this one and answered all
at about the same time. So everyone who responded
give yourself 4 points.

Lets keep the Seamanship questions going.

Who wants to write #2?

Bart Senior wrote

You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

Seamanship Question #1
 

Michael wrote:
By small you mean less than 26' I take it. Never fear you wouldn't
catch me that far out in something less than 20' that's for sure!

My boat is an 18-footer.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

Bart Senior wrote:

I'd sheet in the main while I brought the second jib halyard to the
back of the boat. In reality however I wouldn't be 600mi. offshore
in a small boat.

Who said it was small?

I think it came from me referring to my 'wee boat' with the double lowers,
which is an 18-footer.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

"Bart Senior" wrote ...
Who said it was small?

your last girlfriend.
;)

Seamanship Question #1
 

Michael wrote:

Never catch me that far offshore in a 'wee' boat. 26' was small
enough even though it is a proper British built Westerly. BUT they
sure are fun to drive in the right places. My 18 footer was a
Mercury class sloop. What do you have?

A Copland Foxcub, which I've called 'Hispaniola'. Not in the water - I'm
gradually doing what has turned out to be something of a restoration. It's a
1972 and is the fin keel version (they also made bilge and swing keels). By
all accounts, the fin keeler points well, which was a major reason for
choosing it. Once in the water, the plan is to use it for round-the-cans
club races, daysails and short cruises around my local waters - the Firth Of
Forth in Scotland, which is big enough to require at least an overnighter to
get to the more distant parts from the marina. One of my little ambitions is
to circumnavigate all of the islands on the Forth, preferably in one trip.

I currently get a regular twice-a-week racing fix on a Sonata (22' 7") -
been crewing on that since the start of the season. I was out on a Sigma 38
today - the Queen Mary 2 was anchored in the Forth prior to heading over to
Norway, so a few boats went out for a look-see (photos to webshots soon). We
were out for about three hours, two of which were spent sailing in circles
around the ship.

The Sigma is the first yacht I've sailed other than the Sonata, and I was
most impressed. I had the helm for about 45 minutes to an hour and I was
surprised at how light it all felt. I had half-expected something that size
to feel heavier and turn more sluggishly, but it all seemed eminently
drivable. Getting the jib in on tacks was easy enough as well, only having
to winch a bit if the timing wasn't quite right (wind was light at 8-9
knots).


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Seamanship Question #1
 

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

Harden up the main.

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

Rig another with a spare halyard.

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

Rig yet another with another spare halyard.

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

Drop the jib perhaps? Don't run, don't gybe, tack as
gently as possible.

Seamanship Question #1
 

When the backstay came down, one of your crew got caught in the rigging
causing a severe head injury. He's in and out of consciousness. Obviously,
this is life-threatening. What do you do?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
Everyone did well on this one and answered all
at about the same time. So everyone who responded
give yourself 4 points.

Lets keep the Seamanship questions going.

Who wants to write #2?

Bart Senior wrote

You are sailing upwind, offshore, when your backstay
parts at the masthead. The nearest land is 600 miles
to weather, and you have limited fuel, water, and food.

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

Seamanship Question #1
 

Interesting question !

What should you immediately do? [1 pt]

Ease the jib and point winward, in order to eliminate forward pressure on
the mast

What steps can you take to prevent the loss of
the whole rig? [1 pt]

Clip an halyard on the stern. You won't get a lot of tension from it, as it
would also put a lot of dangerous compression on the spar and hardware.
You'd have about twice the compression you have with backstay, if you load
the halyard the same amount.

What can you use to replace the backstay long enough
to get home? [1 pt]

Pull on the main sheet and vang.

What else can be done to pull the mast aft to keep
tension on the rig? [1 pt]

I can't think of anything else

Seamanship Question #1
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
When the backstay came down, one of your crew got caught in the rigging
causing a severe head injury. He's in and out of consciousness. Obviously,
this is life-threatening. What do you do?

If it's obviously life-threatening then he needs to be choppered out of
there.

In the meantime, keep him warm & awake. Stop the bleeding but do not put
pressure on the wound. Having him sit or stand up will help both
bleeding and awakeness. No fluids, no painkillers.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Seamanship Question #1
 

When the backstay came down, one of your crew got caught in the rigging
causing a severe head injury. He's in and out of consciousness. Obviously,
this is life-threatening. What do you do?

You immobilize him the best you can in case of possible spinal conditions
that might have attended the head injury...wad up jackets and stuff on
either side of his head to keep it from lolling back and forth..do not give
any kind of medicine or food or water...except maybe an ice cube rubbed on
the lips....he should be lying flatr unless you se symptoms of shock...then
you elevate the legs at the knees...not the hips....(there might be a
possible back injury) Call the CG for an airlift out....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Seamanship Question #1
 

Having him sit or stand up will help both
bleeding and awakeness. No fluids, no painkillers.

I disagree...on a thrashing boat (remember...you have a problem going on)
unless you have a way to keep gim from toppling over or falling, he's better
off immobilzed...head injuries often come with spinal colimn
injuries...lying down would be better....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Seamanship Question #1
 

Having him sit or stand up will help both
bleeding and awakeness. No fluids, no painkillers.

katysails wrote:
I disagree...on a thrashing boat (remember...you have a problem going on)
unless you have a way to keep gim from toppling over or falling, he's better
off immobilzed...

Put him below! The problem with letting him lay down is that he will
become unconscious and may stop breathing. Keep him at least sitting up,
and have somebody talk to him, pinch him. If you elevate the legs then
head bleeding will be a problem, and may raise intracranial pressure
which is really really bad.

... head injuries often come with spinal colimn
injuries...lying down would be better....

If a spinal injury, then yes. But unless there is good reason to suspect
spinal injury then aggravating the life-threatening head injury serves
no purpose and may kill him.

First aid isn't an exact science, I wouldn't argue with your treatment
if you were on the scene... unless it was my boat or my wife who was
injured ;)

Now might be a good time to remind everybody to take a refresher course
in first aid, and in CPR.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Seamanship Question #1
 

When the backstay came down, one of your crew got caught in the rigging
causing a severe head injury. He's in and out of consciousness. Obviously,
this is life-threatening. What do you do?

You would probably take the opportunity to bugger him.

Seamanship Question #1
 

Injured Crewman;

All of what Doug said. Plus, if you are 600 miles out you probably have
more crew, get ready for a Helio Pick-up. Ready the dingy and lauch it.
Use a line long enough to let the Helio to come in without interference
from the mast. Pick the healthy crew man to go into the dingy with the
patient to handle the transfer. Wait for instructions from Helio but
try to be ready for different tranfer than you have in mind. Maintain
radio contact with CG and follow instructions.

Ole Thom

Seamanship Question #1
 

Doug stated: If you elevate the legs then
head bleeding will be a problem, and may raise intracranial pressure
which is really really bad.

There was no mention of copious bleeding. Chances are the head injury would
be of the closed head variety, where absolute stillness would be essential
for the same reason of intercranial pressure. Far easier to immobilize
someone lying down than someone who has lost their sense of being and is
pitching around a cabin.



--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Seamanship Question #1
 

Thom Stewart wrote:

Injured Crewman;

All of what Doug said. Plus, if you are 600 miles out you probably have
more crew, get ready for a Helio Pick-up. Ready the dingy and lauch it.
Use a line long enough to let the Helio to come in without interference
from the mast.


I thought the mast came down...

Cheers

Seamanship Question #1
 

I thought the mast came down...

Ouch! ................... Busted!
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

Seamanship Question #1
 

No points for you!

Pay attention next time.

SV


"Nav" wrote


I thought the mast came down...

Cheers

Seamanship Question #1
 

You mean it didn't after all and you were mistaken as the the cause of
injury?

Cheers

Scott Vernon wrote:

No points for you!

Pay attention next time.

SV


"Nav" wrote


I thought the mast came down...

Cheers