I don't know where you are seeing all this protection or all these rotten
teachers. I've yet to see the NEA step in to help a teacher save his/her job
without just cause. I've seen 4 teachers fired from my school alone, not a
peep from the NEA. Why? Because they deserved to be let go. The NEA is most
certainly behind standards in Pennsylvania, in fact they promote standards
in Pennsylvania. I know because I follow them. In fairness, I work in a
vocational high school. All of our teachers are also professionals in other
fields, including me, and perhaps I see a different kind of teacher than you
see. I see welders, nurses, engineers, carpenters, auto technicians,
electricians, chefs, machinists, etc., all turned teacher. I see hard
working men and women who found out, as I have, that teaching is not as easy
as it looks.
Regarding the NEA: of course they are advocates for teachers, that doesn't
mean they are bad for students, now that, my friend, is a silly conclusion
on your part. Do you find evil in the AMA because it is an advocate for
doctors, and because it's officiated by doctors? Of course not. Same can be
said for cops, lawyers, and God knows how many other professional groups.
Would it be reasonable to expect to see cops running the NEA?
Teachers, at least in Pennsylvania, do NOT have permanent certification.
Don't assume they do. I'm in a class now to satisfy Act 48 requirements. Act
48 simply states: teachers, don't continue going to college and lose your
teaching cert - forever. And by the way, I've earned 5 individual
certifications in the last 8 years. On top of that, I was asked to drive our
school bus on field trips, so I went to night school and got my CDL. I
don't know where you live, but at my school, my students have strong
advocates, beginning with me.

Scout

"Scout" wrote in message

Do you find evil in the AMA because it is an advocate for
doctors, and because it's officiated by doctors? Of course not.

Wrong guy of whom to ask this question. Yes, I do vilify the AMA, on many
counts. They fight battles for organized medicine (predictable) against
many foes, but do almost nothing for the public and health care in general.
Are you aware that the AMA has less than 38% membership of currently
practicing physicians? Apparently most physicians feel similarly.

I
don't know where you live, but at my school, my students have strong
advocates, beginning with me.

My compliments and admiration, Scout. Teachers (some) have always been the
advocates for their students, but not the NEA. Another anecdote (and I
sincerely wish I could find a reference for you to read, but I've been
unable to do so). An attorney on the radio last week related a story about
a teacher in San Diego (I think) who taught in a school predominately
composed of disadvantaged Hispanic students. Few, if any of them, got into
college. And this teacher, I believe his name was Jaimie (pronounced
Hi-me), decided this was unacceptable. He began to teach after-school
classes on test-taking to help kids perform well on the SATs and other
college admission exams. And it was a resounding success. The percent of
kids getting into colleges and universities jumped dramatically, thanks at
least in part to his help. But his fellow teachers were miffed, claiming he
made them "look bad" by comparison. So they engaged the NEA to assist them
with their plight. The NEA applied pressure, both legal and political (via
the school administration), against Jaimie. Ultimately he grew weary of the
fight, threw up his hands, and quit. He's now doing something outside of
education. The teachers were able to get a blurb in the statewide (?) NEA
newsletter, lauding their efforts in getting rid of "a problem teacher."

You do the math.

Max

Max, the first thing wrong with this anecdote is that is begins with, "An
attorney on the radio last week related a story . . . "
There are so many things that sound fishy with this story, that I'd need to
see something verifiable. It just doesn't ring true, and sounds like a
lawyer tying to make a case for his client (i.e., he needs a villain). I am
interested however, and looking for the story myself; so far no luck. It
should be a fairly easy story to find. If you see the story, preferably with
two sides, please post it.
Several year's ago I was Pennsylvania's New Teacher of the Year. Part of the
reason for that was that I was at school an hour before and at least an hour
afterschool for kids who needed extra help. The other teachers had no
problems with this, and I can't understand why any would, unless there is
more to this story than the radio lawyer has let on. Please keep me posted
if you hear more.
Scout


"Maxprop" wrote
{snip}.
Another anecdote (and I
sincerely wish I could find a reference for you to read, but I've been
unable to do so). An attorney on the radio last week related a story
about
a teacher in San Diego (I think) who taught in a school predominately
composed of disadvantaged Hispanic students. Few, if any of them, got
into
college. And this teacher, I believe his name was Jaimie (pronounced
Hi-me), decided this was unacceptable. He began to teach after-school
classes on test-taking to help kids perform well on the SATs and other
college admission exams. And it was a resounding success. The percent of
kids getting into colleges and universities jumped dramatically, thanks at
least in part to his help. But his fellow teachers were miffed, claiming
he
made them "look bad" by comparison. So they engaged the NEA to assist
them
with their plight. The NEA applied pressure, both legal and political
(via
the school administration), against Jaimie. Ultimately he grew weary of
the
fight, threw up his hands, and quit. He's now doing something outside of
education. The teachers were able to get a blurb in the statewide (?) NEA
newsletter, lauding their efforts in getting rid of "a problem teacher."

Scout wrote:
Max, the first thing wrong with this anecdote is that is begins with, "An
attorney on the radio last week related a story . . . "
There are so many things that sound fishy with this story, that I'd need to
see something verifiable.

Oh, it's easily verifiable. It's the movie "Stand and Deliver," the name
of the teacher is the same as the first name of the actor.

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

DSK

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

This from the guy who has yet to post anything other than innuendo and
conjecture. What a laugh.

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

Bobspirt wrote:
This from the guy who has yet to post anything other than innuendo and
conjecture. What a laugh.

Always glad to help.

Did you think the links I posted about Halliburton's overcharges were
"innuendo"? Maybe my statements about President Reagan failing to
reform the welfare system were "conjecture"?

DSK

But he wasn't fired, he quit. He connected with the kids, but not the
adults, and not just the teachers. The early / late complaint came from the
janitor, not sour-grapes teachers.
Scout


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Scout wrote:
Max, the first thing wrong with this anecdote is that is begins with,
"An
attorney on the radio last week related a story . . . "
There are so many things that sound fishy with this story, that I'd need
to
see something verifiable.

Oh, it's easily verifiable. It's the movie "Stand and Deliver," the name
of the teacher is the same as the first name of the actor.

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

DSK

oops, my bad. Max did say "quit"

"Scout" wrote in message
...
But he wasn't fired, he quit. He connected with the kids, but not the
adults, and not just the teachers. The early / late complaint came from
the
janitor, not sour-grapes teachers.
Scout


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Scout wrote:
Max, the first thing wrong with this anecdote is that is begins with,
"An
attorney on the radio last week related a story . . . "
There are so many things that sound fishy with this story, that I'd
need
to
see something verifiable.

Oh, it's easily verifiable. It's the movie "Stand and Deliver," the name
of the teacher is the same as the first name of the actor.

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

DSK

"Scout" wrote in message

But he wasn't fired, he quit. He connected with the kids, but not the
adults, and not just the teachers. The early / late complaint came from
the
janitor, not sour-grapes teachers.
Scout

I believe I did say that Jaime quit.

I haven't seen the movie, rather was paraphrasing what I'd heard on the
radio. And we all know how Hollywood loves to embellish and exaggerate,
leading one to conclude that the movie may or may not be accurately factual.
My guess is that the moviemaker would be reluctant to take the NEA to task.
I'm still looking for the real story.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message

Scout wrote:
Max, the first thing wrong with this anecdote is that is begins with,
"An
attorney on the radio last week related a story . . . "
There are so many things that sound fishy with this story, that I'd need
to
see something verifiable.

Oh, it's easily verifiable. It's the movie "Stand and Deliver," the name
of the teacher is the same as the first name of the actor.

It's nice to see Maxprop trying to back up his statements with at least
some form of near-fact.

Why thanks, Doug. In your arrogant and derogatory way, you've paid me a
backhanded compliment.

Max