SAILING GROUNDS
 

Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:

Great Slave Lake, NWT
Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
British Virgin Islands - all of it
Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
British Columbia
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Prince Edward Island
Ontario
Quebec

I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited world
of sail.

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Capt. Mooron wrote:

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans,
bays, countries...... I'll start:

I am but a sweet, innocent, fresh-faced n00b, so my list is short...

The Firth Of Forth (racing twice a week). Estuary, marina is at the
narrowest point, hilly on both sides, conditions are always variable.


Bob can't use a Radar

Ain't got one o' them.


Bob can't navigate

Learned a bit, but have some way to go yet.


Bob can't sail into a slip

We do that virtually every time we sail. (And out if the wind is conducive.)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
|
| Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans,
| bays, countries...... I'll start:
|
| I am but a sweet, innocent, fresh-faced n00b, so my list is short...

I'm certain that list will expand in leaps and bounds since you seem to hold
the adventurous spirit required of true mariners.

|
| The Firth Of Forth (racing twice a week). Estuary, marina is at the
| narrowest point, hilly on both sides, conditions are always variable.

Excellent.... a true test of skill for a newbie.
|
|
| Bob can't use a Radar
|
| Ain't got one o' them.

You will


| Bob can't navigate
|
| Learned a bit, but have some way to go yet.

At least you are making an attempt!

| Bob can't sail into a slip
|
| We do that virtually every time we sail. (And out if the wind is
conducive.)

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots or
out of the bay. ;-)

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Well, you have me beat but comparing yourself to Bob isn't raising the bar
that high. I mentioned it before but one of the guys on the Atlantic
crossing keep his boat on the Hudson north of NYC and from what he told me
he's covered more of LIS in his boat than Bob has. I think Bob's an
aberration as far as the ng's concerned.
Lake Erie
Lake St. Clair
Detroit River
BVI
Gulf of Mexico
Atlantic Ocean
Beagle Channel
Drake Passage
Straits of Florida
John Cairns
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here
with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:

Great Slave Lake, NWT
Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
British Virgin Islands - all of it
Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
British Columbia
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Prince Edward Island
Ontario
Quebec

I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited
world
of sail.

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

My list will pale in comparison, but;

Blue Marsh Lake, Pa
Fla. Keys
Atlantic, off Daytona Fla.
Marsh Creek Resovoir, Pa
Outer Banks NC
Ocean City MD
Chesapeake Bay, from norhtern tip to VA line.


--
Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here
with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:

Great Slave Lake, NWT
Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
British Virgin Islands - all of it
Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
British Columbia
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Prince Edward Island
Ontario
Quebec

I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited
world
of sail.

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots
or
out of the bay. ;-)


He's never even experienced spray over the bow.
:o

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Sometimes it feels good!


"Wally" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20
knots or out of the bay. ;-)

He's never even experienced spray over the bow.

Whereas, I've learned to watch the waves and duck so the next crew on the
rail gets it. (Bowman's privilege...)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Capt. Mooron wrote:

I am but a sweet, innocent, fresh-faced n00b, so my list is short...

I'm certain that list will expand in leaps and bounds since you seem
to hold the adventurous spirit required of true mariners.

We'll see how it goes - the plan for this season is to build experience by
crewing on the Sonata, while I work on my own boat. Once Hispaniola goes in,
I'll be looking to get into some cruising. (Can't do cruising other than
daysails on the Sonata because the skipper's wife is poorly and he can't be
away from home for too long.)


The Firth Of Forth (racing twice a week). Estuary, marina is at the
narrowest point, hilly on both sides, conditions are always variable.

Excellent.... a true test of skill for a newbie.

That's what I like about the place - loads of variety in a small area. The
last two weekends have been flat calm, hot sun, bit of sea breeze one day;
strong winds, lumpy chop and pishin' rain the other. Last Saturday, we had a
'new boy' dinghy sailor as stand-in crew - we were short-handed - he was
decidedly unwell (and lacking a clue, considering he's done more RYA dinghy
training than me). He didn't come back for the suntan, slow drift and
cancelled races the following Sunday...


Bob can't use a Radar

Ain't got one o' them.

You will

Not this week! :-) But I'm up for that sort of gubbins when I have the sort
of boat that warrants it.


Bob can't navigate

Learned a bit, but have some way to go yet.

At least you are making an attempt!

Oh, for sure. I'm comfortable with map&compass work on land, so it seems
only right to learn the 'trade' on water as well.


Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20
knots or out of the bay. ;-)

He's still to show us his spinnaker doing something more exciting than
hanging out to dry in 2 knots... I suppose he's trying to toughen up his
crew of waifs and strays before they risk hoisting it in 3!


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20
knots or out of the bay. ;-)

He's never even experienced spray over the bow.

Whereas, I've learned to watch the waves and duck so the next crew on the
rail gets it. (Bowman's privilege...)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

Sometimes it feels good!

Indeed - I don't mind a bit of splashing and spray. It's certainly less of a
drag than using a dinghy as a diving board. Still, when you've been racing
all day and have an hour or two of chop to plough through in a 22-footer,
you can get too much of a good thing. There are times when it's nice to sit
in the foulies and watch the cotton-clad hero sitting next to you get a
soaking. ;-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

On hot days my wife sits at the bow and points out the biggest waves to
splash through. I like a little spray, I turn my head for the big stuff.
Course bob claims you don't get any bow spray under 20kts.


--
Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:

Sometimes it feels good!

Indeed - I don't mind a bit of splashing and spray. It's certainly less of
a
drag than using a dinghy as a diving board. Still, when you've been racing
all day and have an hour or two of chop to plough through in a 22-footer,
you can get too much of a good thing. There are times when it's nice to
sit
in the foulies and watch the cotton-clad hero sitting next to you get a
soaking. ;-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

moron, kayaking doesn't count (except in your universe) so I will leave that
out.

NJ
LIS
Jersey shore
Delaware River
Chesepeake
ICW.
BVI
Ft Lauderdale
Charleston
St Augustine
Block Island
Boston
Plymouth
Situate
New Haven
Greenpoint
Maui
Honolulu
Medicine Lake
Balsam Lake
Charlette Amalie
Upper New York Harbor
Lower New York Harbor
Acapulco
South China Sea (but that was just swimming and killing)
others

Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:

Great Slave Lake, NWT
Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
British Virgin Islands - all of it
Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
British Columbia
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Prince Edward Island
Ontario
Quebec

I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited world
of sail.

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots or
out of the bay.

I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and gusting

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Whereas, I've learned to watch the waves and duck so the next crew on the
rail gets it.

sure you have, wally.

SAILING GROUNDS
 

that six inch chop is a bitch, isn't it.


Sometimes it feels good!

Indeed - I don't mind a bit of splashing and spray. It's certainly less of a
drag than using a dinghy as a diving board. Still, when you've been racing
all day and have an hour or two of chop to plough through in a 22-footer,
you can get too much of a good thing. There are times when it's nice to sit
in the foulies and watch the cotton-clad hero sitting next to you get a
soaking. ;-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

I've seen Jax going backwards in a race.

Scotty

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots
or
out of the bay.

I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and gusting

SAILING GROUNDS
 

We'll see how it goes - the plan for this season is to build experience by
crewing on the Sonata, while I work on my own boat. Once Hispaniola goes in,
I'll be looking to get into some cruising

says it all

SAILING GROUNDS
 

That's what I like about the place - loads of variety in a small area.

yeah, of course, you betcha.

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Sorry, Mooron. I'm afraid you blew it again. Not that your troll really means
anything...

NY Harbor aboard the Petrel as crew (71 foot yawl), my first sailing experience
after learning on Sunfish.

Trinidad and Tobago aboard a a real sailing skiff built in the 30's. I was 15.

North Carolina, several outings on Hobie Cats and the Hobie monohull. Just a
couple of years ago on the cat.

Pocono Lake, Laser sailing.

LIS, more boats sailed than I could count at the moment!

Jersey Shore, Catalina 27 and Galaxy 32. Doing it again next week out of Shark
River!

Miami, in a god-awful Albacor, but later in a nice lightening.

And speaking of Lightenings, we use to sail one along with a Chrysler boat on a
PA lake that I don't recall.

Rough times for you, eh, Mooron???

RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Oh, for sure. I'm comfortable with map&compass work on land,

yeah. of course. sure you are.

SAILING GROUNDS
 

he told me
he's covered more of LIS

THAT certainly makes him a fantastic seaman.

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Jaxxies... you sail a friggin Irwin 30... that speaks volumes alone!
Shut the **** Up you big cry-baby!... at least until you find the Gulf
Stream or write another "definative" book on something like anchoring in the
LIS and the ten feet of mud you have your hook into... never mind catenary
forces.

CM

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
| We'll see how it goes - the plan for this season is to build experience
by
| crewing on the Sonata, while I work on my own boat. Once Hispaniola goes
in,
| I'll be looking to get into some cruising
|
| says it all

SAILING GROUNDS
 

he told me
he's covered more of LIS



Wowee!


RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

I call bull****...no Irwin can sail in over 5 knots of wind!

CM

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
| Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots
or
| out of the bay.
|
| I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and gusting

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots or
out of the bay.

I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and gusting


That's true. We've never not gone out due to heavy winds, which has been a
mistake on two occasions.

RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| Rough times for you, eh, Mooron???

Not after that list..... ;-)

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Jaxxies... you sail a friggin Irwin 30... that speaks volumes alone!


No he doesn't.


RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Aw Darned it all.... I forgot all about sailing in Hawaii! Oh well.
Kayaks... hahahahahahaha.... I always ask them what time it is while
pointing at my watch... and they always stop paddling and tell me. Nuthin'
dumber than a kayaker!

Eskimo Roll!

CM

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
| moron, kayaking doesn't count (except in your universe) so I will leave
that
| out.
|
| NJ
| LIS
| Jersey shore
| Delaware River
| Chesepeake
| ICW.
| BVI
| Ft Lauderdale
| Charleston
| St Augustine
| Block Island
| Boston
| Plymouth
| Situate
| New Haven
| Greenpoint
| Maui
| Honolulu
| Medicine Lake
| Balsam Lake
| Charlette Amalie
| Upper New York Harbor
| Lower New York Harbor
| Acapulco
| South China Sea (but that was just swimming and killing)
| others
|
| Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here
with
| such a limited sailing area.
|
| Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
| countries...... I'll start:
|
| Great Slave Lake, NWT
| Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
| Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
| Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
| British Virgin Islands - all of it
| Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
| Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
| American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
| Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
| Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
| British Columbia
| Nova Scotia
| New Brunswick
| Prince Edward Island
| Ontario
| Quebec
|
| I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
| Bob.... !!!?????
| I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a
charter
| boat!!!
| Bob can't use a Radar
| Bob can't navigate
| Bob can't sail into a slip
|
| Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited
world
| of sail.
|
| CM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| Rough times for you, eh, Mooron???

Not after that list..... ;-)


What's wrong with the list. Ever sail near Centipede Island near Trinidad,
Mooron? I bet you haven't!
****ed now, aint ya!??? You were hoping I had only sailed in NY. Wrong AGAIN!

RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Yes he does Bob!

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Jaxxies... you sail a friggin Irwin 30... that speaks volumes alone!
|
|
| No he doesn't.
|
|
| RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

30 kts.... Bwahahahahahahahahahaaaa

That's a mild day up here you pansy!

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20 knots
or
| out of the bay.
|
| I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and
gusting
|
|
| That's true. We've never not gone out due to heavy winds, which has been a
| mistake on two occasions.
|
| RB

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
| ****ed now, aint ya!??? |

Nope.... ;-P

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

Nice list... here's mine as best as I can recall...

SF bayarea (some north, some south out the Gate)
Santa Cruz
various N. Cal. lakes
offshore delivery (no stops) between SF and Cabo San Lucas
Mid-Med delivery to/between Malta, Tunisia, Italy, and Spain
Belize
BVI
Hawaii
Tahiti

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here
with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:

Great Slave Lake, NWT
Hudson's Bay - Rankin Yacht Club
Beaufort Sea - Tuktoyaktuk
Bahamas, Eluthra, & Exuma Cays
British Virgin Islands - all of it
Jamaica - Montego Bay to Negril
Brasil - Florinopolis to Bombinas and Porto Alegra /Recife
American Samoa - Pago Pago Yacht Club
Western Samoa - Upolu to Savai'i
Tonga - Am Samoa to Tonga return [ Pago-Vava'u]
British Columbia
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Prince Edward Island
Ontario
Quebec

I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited
world
of sail.

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
he told me
he's covered more of LIS

THAT certainly makes him a fantastic seaman.

Wow. Keep that up and you'll lose the only friend you have here. I'll make
it easier, minus the list, here's what I posted-

Well, you have me beat but comparing yourself to Bob isn't raising the bar
that high. I mentioned it before but one of the guys on the Atlantic
crossing keep his boat on the Hudson north of NYC and from what he told me
he's covered more of LIS in his boat than Bob has. I think Bob's an
aberration as far as the ng's concerned.

Mooron talked about where he's sailed, pointing out that Bob's "range", for
lack of a better word, is fairly limited. What Mooron posted, minus his
list-


Okay.... I'm taking a quick poll to see if Bob is the only poster here with
such a limited sailing area.

Please just give us an idea of where you've sailed, lakes, oceans, bays,
countries...... I'll start:


I know it's not a lot and many have sailed more areas.... but compared to
Bob.... !!!?????
I mean let's face it... Bob hasn't even done a basic BVI trip on a charter
boat!!!
Bob can't use a Radar
Bob can't navigate
Bob can't sail into a slip

Bob does try though.... lame as those attempts are in his very limited world
of sail.

CM

Mooron's implication, correctly or incorrectly, appears to be that Bob is an
inferior sailor due to his lack of experience sailing in varied venues. If
you read my post again, carefully, you'll note that my only mention of Bob
was along similar lines, that he has very limited experience sailing in
different venues, indeed, based on what Pat told me during our passage, he
seems to have very little experience cruising in his "home" waters, which is
somewhat ironic given his past claims that he doesn't work a 9-5 job, and
was single up until fairly recently. Both of these facts should have allowed
Bob to do an extensive amount of cruising, which by his own admission, he
hasn't. You might also note that I made no value judgment, only that Bob's
lack of cruising experience is an aberration in this ng, I still believe
this statement to be correct. In a sarcastic reply you imply that my friend
Pat is an inferior sailor, as proof you offer the fact that he's done more
cruising in LIS than Bob. So where does that leave Bob? Is Bob a grossly
inferior sailor because he hasn't done much cruising in his home waters, or
in any other areas?
John Cairns

SAILING GROUNDS
 

JAXAshby wrote:

Whereas, I've learned to watch the waves and duck so the next crew
on the rail gets it.

sure you have, wally.

How the hell would you know what I have and haven't learned, mindreader?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

JAXAshby wrote:

that six inch chop is a bitch, isn't it.

You're a ****-poor troll, little boy.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

JAXAshby wrote:

We'll see how it goes - the plan for this season is to build
experience by crewing on the Sonata, while I work on my own boat.
Once Hispaniola goes in, I'll be looking to get into some cruising

says it all

Everbody has to start somewhere, sad-ass.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

JAXAshby wrote:
Bob is terrified to sail into anything.... including a wind over 20
knots or out of the bay.

I have seen Bob sailing -- with his girls -- in winds of 30+, and
gusting

Oh, whoopie ****in' do!! My first race on on a yacht was in 30 knots,
gusting 46 - and I loved it. There's even a photo of it happening in my
webshots album.

When do we get to see *you* sailing?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
| JAXAshby wrote:
|
| Whereas, I've learned to watch the waves and duck so the next crew
| on the rail gets it.
|
| sure you have, wally.
|
| How the hell would you know what I have and haven't learned, mindreader?

Jeez Wally... Jaxxie is a MENSA member and an author of a definitive book as
well a Speedo model. ;-)
He sails an Irwin 30.... Bwahahahahahahahaa

CM

SAILING GROUNDS
 

"Wally" wrote in message
| Oh, whoopie ****in' do!! My first race on on a yacht was in 30 knots,
| gusting 46 - and I loved it. There's even a photo of it happening in my
| webshots album.
|
| When do we get to see *you* sailing?

You won't Wally.... he sails an Irwin 30 and that is an embarrassment in
itself. Jaxxie is a salesman... he used to sell computers and then cars.If
you ask someone here might provide you with some of his pictures he posted
on the web of himself. It was hilarious. He even complained to Donal's
ISP... but didn't realize it was actually Donal he was writing the letter
to. Real Genious material there.

CM