Jeff you said:

"Recent inspection has proven that the framing is completely different
from the original, so any claim that the new ship was some form of refit
of the original is simply bogus. At some later point someone actually
rebuilt the new Constellation to resemble the original, and the hoax was
adopted well meaning folks in Baltimore. They now admit there is little
or no connection between the ships."

When was the hoax uncovered by inspection? Could this be the cause of my
confusion about the ship's name (and the passage of time) and could it
be that I was one of the 'well meaning folks'? Shame on the userers! But
I still think she should have been looked after better and she is old!

Cheers

Navigator wrote:
When was the hoax uncovered by inspection?

It was known through out the history of the ship.


... Could this be the cause of my
confusion about the ship's name

Umm, we know you have reading comprehension problems, but can you not
distinguish between the words "Constellation" and "Constitution"? You
must be a real whiz at astronomy!


... But
I still think she should have been looked after better and she is old!

Yeah, and one big old ship with cannon is just like another...

Fresh Whatever
Doug King

Its was known by some all along that they were not the same ship, but the
Baltimore group that had control was quite insistent that they were the same.
Conclusive proof they were not the same was published by the Navy in a book
titled "Fouled Anchors: The Constellation Question Answered," 1991.

The group controlling the ship now bills here as the "last sailing ship built by
the Navy" and the "last Civil War era ship." The original is mentioned as her
namesake. However, there are still those that claim many of the parts of the
new ship came from the original and therefore they are the same. It isn't clear
to me how much value 60 year old gear and rigging would have for a new ship.
This article even say that since the Constitution has had several refits, they
are essentially in the the same category.

http://www.baltimoremd.com/monuments/sea02.html

The Consitution refit mentioned, in 1833, was major, but the frames and keel
were untouched, as well as the gun deck beams, and most of the planking below
the waterline. The fastenings (made by Paul Revere) were said to be sound.
Much of this is still original. This was the refit associated with the famous
poem:

OLD IRONSIDES
By Oliver Wendell Holmes
September 16, 1830

Ay, tear her tattered ensign down!
Long has it waved on high,
And many an eye has danced to see
That banner in the sky;
Beneath it rung the battle shout,
And burst the cannon's roar;
The meteor of the ocean air
Shall sweep the clouds no more.
Her deck, once red with heroes' blood,
Where knelt the vanquished foe,
When winds were hurrying o'er the flood,
And waves were white below,
No more shall feel the victor's tread,
Or know the conquered knee;
The harpies of the shore shall pluck
The eagle of the sea!
Oh, better that her shattered bulk
Should sink beneath the wave;
Her thunders shook the mighty deep,
And there should be her grave;
Nail to the mast her holy flag,
Set every threadbare sail,
And give her to the god of storms,
The lightning and the gale!





"Navigator" wrote in message
...
Jeff you said:

"Recent inspection has proven that the framing is completely different
from the original, so any claim that the new ship was some form of refit
of the original is simply bogus. At some later point someone actually
rebuilt the new Constellation to resemble the original, and the hoax was
adopted well meaning folks in Baltimore. They now admit there is little
or no connection between the ships."

When was the hoax uncovered by inspection? Could this be the cause of my
confusion about the ship's name (and the passage of time) and could it
be that I was one of the 'well meaning folks'? Shame on the userers! But
I still think she should have been looked after better and she is old!

Cheers

Jeff Morris wrote:
Its was known by some all along that they were not the same ship, but the
Baltimore group that had control was quite insistent that they were the same.

Yes, and they were eagerly flinging mud at Howard Chappelle at one
point. He thoroughly debunked the idea that the Constellation of 1855
was the same ship in any respect as the Constellation of 1797.

When the facts are referenced, the earlier Constellation was shorter, &
beamier. The Navy documents referring to the building of the 1855
Constellation do not in any way refer to "rebuilding" the older ship,
which IIRC was at that point already broken up.

The promoters of the Constellation insisted that it was the older ship,
and that the "keel & frames had been replaced" which is ludicrous (as
Chappelle pointed out in terms less diplomatic)



The group controlling the ship now bills here as the "last sailing ship built by
the Navy" and the "last Civil War era ship." The original is mentioned as her
namesake. However, there are still those that claim many of the parts of the
new ship came from the original and therefore they are the same.

That's total BS. The only connection is that the old frigate was
scrapped in the same city as the new ship was built... which was not
Baltimore, a fact they ignore.

But they are still at it:
"Located in the heart of Baltimore's Inner Harbor is a self-guided tour
of the last surviving ship of the Civil War. U.S.S. Constellation was
built in 1853 for the Navy and is considered a replicate of the Navy's
first frigate, Constellation, launched in 1797 in Baltimore."

It's not at all a "replicate" of the 1797 frigate. It's not a frigate,
it's a sloop-of-war. It's not even the "last surviving ship of the Civil
War" there are at least two Confederate ironclads propped up on display
here & there.

... It isn't clear
to me how much value 60 year old gear and rigging would have for a new ship.
This article even say that since the Constitution has had several refits, they
are essentially in the the same category.

Also ridiculous. I guess the U.S.S. Missouri is essentially the same as
the U.S.S. Monitor, since some of the iron ore was dug from the same place?


http://www.baltimoremd.com/monuments/sea02.html

The Consitution refit mentioned, in 1833, was major, but the frames and keel
were untouched, as well as the gun deck beams, and most of the planking below
the waterline. The fastenings (made by Paul Revere) were said to be sound.
Much of this is still original.

Yes, I've seen figures thrown around that somewhere between 50% and 80%
of the Constitution is the original timber. For one thing, most of the
keel, stem, frames, deadwood, & ceiling, would be totally inaccessible
without totally destroying the rest of her. Most of the fastenings in
these parts are original. Most of what has been replaced is above-water
planking, transom framing (the transom has been replaced probably tow or
three times), hanging knees, and deck planking. Obviously all this stuff
has been refastened too, and Gilmer mentions refastening some of the
cieling but he hints that this was largely due to pulling out fasteners
for testing.

Thanks for putting in the poem

FB
DSK

OLD IRONSIDES
By Oliver Wendell Holmes
September 16, 1830

Ay, tear her tattered ensign down!
Long has it waved on high,
And many an eye has danced to see
That banner in the sky;
Beneath it rung the battle shout,
And burst the cannon's roar;
The meteor of the ocean air
Shall sweep the clouds no more.
Her deck, once red with heroes' blood,
Where knelt the vanquished foe,
When winds were hurrying o'er the flood,
And waves were white below,
No more shall feel the victor's tread,
Or know the conquered knee;
The harpies of the shore shall pluck
The eagle of the sea!
Oh, better that her shattered bulk
Should sink beneath the wave;
Her thunders shook the mighty deep,
And there should be her grave;
Nail to the mast her holy flag,
Set every threadbare sail,
And give her to the god of storms,
The lightning and the gale!

DSK wrote in message ...
Navigator wrote:
When was the hoax uncovered by inspection?

It was known through out the history of the ship.


... Could this be the cause of my
confusion about the ship's name

Umm, we know you have reading comprehension problems, but can you not
distinguish between the words "Constellation" and "Constitution"? You
must be a real whiz at astronomy!


It's all just pie in the sky to Nav. He just can't understand us,
poor guy.

I wonder if he's ever heard of the Constitution of the United States?

Shoulden't he have to have some very basic knowledge of the U.S. since
he's allowed to work here? What are we doing passing out visa's to
people that do not even comprend or know of a document we try to live
by.

And Doug, please let Nav rave on a little longer next time, we all can
use the laughs. Play him like a 10 pound bass on a 3 lb test line. Its
not like he is going to get off the hook.

Joe


Joe

... But
I still think she should have been looked after better and she is old!

Yeah, and one big old ship with cannon is just like another...

Fresh Whatever
Doug King