"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous? I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5 knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25 knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks. And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

There is at least one club (and another considering it), in Balt. that has
set a 'high wind' mark where they won't let students go out. This is part of
the aftermath of that water taxi that blew over in Balt. Inner Harbor.

Scotty


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a
force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted
wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous?
I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5
knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25
knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of
our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back
and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't
recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable
SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my
previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines
with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot
seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about
the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I
did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of
instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the
students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what
type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not
uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club
that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks.
And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
There is at least one club (and another considering it), in Balt. that has
set a 'high wind' mark where they won't let students go out. This is part of
the aftermath of that water taxi that blew over in Balt. Inner Harbor.

Scotty

Thats a shame.
Here it is kinda funny and sad. Some kid brought his 12 foot boat on
the lake a week or so ago and capsized strait out from were I live. He
was struggling to get it back upright, all he needed to do was release
his main sheet and he would of had the strength and weight to do it.
But before he figured that out the coast guard was there, Towboats
USA, CSCG Reserves, and four or five other speed boats. The cops were
on the bank, firetrucks standing by ect.

There are lots of apartment building and condos that over look the
lake and the locals go phone wild anytime anyone capsizes. Soon as the
water is a little warmer Im gonna go out, capsize, Sit on the board
just long enough for everyone to make all the calls, then pop up and
take off.

Poor kid, bet he was embaressed with all the fuss and boats, I was
suprised they did not have a blackhawk hovering over him.

Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left
alone and given the time and space to do it.

Joe






"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a
force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted
wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous?
I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5
knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25
knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of
our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back
and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't
recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable
SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my
previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines
with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot
seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about
the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I
did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of
instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the
students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what
type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not
uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club
that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks.
And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

Joe said:
Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left
alone and given the time and space to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. At our yacht club, the first in-boat
lesson is capsizing and righting.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Dear Mr. Morris,
We used to let the salesmen take potential buyers out on test sails,
but we ended up losing too many good salesmen, and also suckers, I
mean potential buyers.

Roger Mac


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...


But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you
test it?

Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left
alone and given the time and space to do it.


This is true. Also people should know how to lie-to (lay to?), and reef without
tipping over.
The Veridican
"Believe that truth is in the world when those who can see it follow it."

people should know how to lie-to (lay to?), and reef without
tipping over.
The Veridican

on a dinghy?

give me a break.

"Veridican" wrote in message
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park


Jeff Morris wrote:
Yes, its a bit of work.

Depends very much on the boat. Some are fun at 25, some are work, some
are in 'survival mode.' It also depends on the water... what size & type
of waves do you have to contend with?




and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force

6

wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

You have a bit of a math problem. But I'd agree that in most conditions
of 25 knot winds or above, harnesses are a good idea. Reefing may or may
not be.



Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted wind
doesn't happen.

That's been my policy as well, on boats that *can* be reefed. Most small
boats and all one designs have no reef points. I've tried rolling the
sail around the mast on Lasers and Force 5s but it doesn't work too
well. On most such boats, capsizing is part of the fun.

... What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous? I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5 knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25 knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

Ah yes, the Buzzards Bay daily hurricane. Fun place to sail. I like the
way the waves change dramatically with the tide, too.


As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot seas
might be, but that's another story.

Guess that depends on the boat too. It certainly depends on the sailor.
I tend to be chicken though, and wear a harness or a PFD many times when
others don't.


In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Maybe *you* shouldn't.


Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the students
did decline on occasion.

In some of the racing classes, 25 ~ 30 is close to the upper limit of
when things get out of control even with the champions. Two modern
designs I admire, the Viper and the Johnson 18, can race and have lots
of fun in 30 ~ 35... maybe more. In 470s it's survival mode.




I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It should be. How can you learn to handle a boat in bad weather if you
never experience any harder winds?



It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks. And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

heh heh I think Chicago is the windiest city... colder water, too...

anyway, a couple of afternoons sailing a racing class dinghy in 20+
knots will teach any sailor how to better handle a bigger boat in strong
winds. It's a shame so many sailors scorn this type of experience... or
think it's dangerous...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what type
of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not
uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind.

heh heh I think Chicago is the windiest city... colder water, too...


Chicago is not even close. Their reputation is not from the real wind, its
from the politicians.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...d/avgwind.html

Jeff Morris wrote:
Chicago is not even close. Their reputation is not from the real wind, its
from the politicians.

Ever sailed there? I have. Not a lot, but more than a dozen times... and
I don't recall any light air, most of the time it was blowing 20 ~ 25.



http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...d/avgwind.html

Thanks for the link. Interesting... some of the places I think of as
good for sailing in *real* wind, like Charleston SC, are not even in the
upper half. OTOH upper NY harbor which has almost always been drifters
the times I sailed there, has a pretty high average wind.

Boston does have good breeze. Usually pretty good when we've been up
there. The tides & currents are challenging too.

DSK