On 01 Apr 2004 03:12:24 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote this
crap:

I am no prude and own guns but i am torn when it comes to carrying them in
foreign waters.

I'm still thinking it's better to have, than not...

having been on both the target end and the firing end of a gun, I think it is
best to chose to sail in areas where there is little to no chance of being on
the target end.


You wuss!

You probably kept your training wheels on your bicycle until you were
16. You probably never drive above the speed limit.




Screw the rules! They're more like guidelines, anyways.

As Jaxxy well knows, I don't think much of him; however, you
are a complete idiot by comparison.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 01 Apr 2004 03:12:24 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote this
crap:

I am no prude and own guns but i am torn when it comes to carrying
them in
foreign waters.

I'm still thinking it's better to have, than not...

having been on both the target end and the firing end of a gun, I think
it is
best to chose to sail in areas where there is little to no chance of
being on
the target end.


You wuss!

You probably kept your training wheels on your bicycle until you were
16. You probably never drive above the speed limit.




Screw the rules! They're more like guidelines, anyways.

"none" wrote

...... The stats indicate that armed people are far more likely
to get hurt or killed by ther own weapons. .....

Only police (c: AFAIK the only "study" indicating this was a wash
promulgated by Sarah Brady's nut group. They found ONE obscure rural US
county in which there had been one justifiable homicide and 47 suicides
since the county began keeping records. From these dubious data they deduced
that you're "47 times more likely" to be killed by your own gun than to
defend yourself with it. This deduction ASSumes that the rest of the world's
experiences match that one county and that guns are never used defensively
unless someone is justifiably killed. Both are patently ridiculous but the
idiot press still drags out this lie when convenient. Every broadbased, and
thus statistically valid study shows just the opposite.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm:

US Federal law provides a person, who is not prohibited by the GCA from
receiving or transporting firearms, the right to transport a firearm under
certain conditions, notwithstanding state or local law to the contrary. The
firearms must be unloaded and in a locked trunk or, in a vehicle lacking a
trunk, in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Also, the carrying and possession must be lawful at the place of origin and
destination. [18 U. S. C. 926A, 27 CFR 178.38] 9.

Unfortunately many states' police resent this and will instead arrest you
for having that big bag of coke you didn't know you had, not to mention the
explosives and kiddy porn and ......

Sailors are known for planning ahead. If you
plan ahead enough to bring a gun, it seems
likely that you would be smart enough to
practice and be prepared to use it.

There are new types of ammunition that will
not penetrate a hull and would be suitable
for defense on a boat, and/or for signal use.

More than a few stories tell how sailors
fired a couple shots and scared off pirates.

If you run out on deck waving a gun, without any
sort of a plan, you will probably get killed
yourself.

If you are a sheepeople, don't bring a gun. If
you are leader, that is capable and responsible,
perhaps you might want to consider firearms
as a means to protect your loved ones.

Bart Senior


none wrote

the temptation to flame is too great...however,i am serious when i ask, Do
you know you could get the first shot off without hestation?
I am no prude and own guns but i am torn when it comes to carrying them in
foreign waters. The stats indicate that armed people are far more likely
to get hurt or killed by ther own weapons. We don't practice firing from
the hip on from instinct evry day..and fear is the worst situation under
which to learn and practice using your weapon. you can't learn to be a
killer in an instant.
dunno...just saying. and inspite of all the macho guys that "_say_" they
could kill to defend themslves in a heartbeat: in WWII only one in three
soldiers fired their weapons in battle! and these were guys that wee
being shot at! what do you think that number would be in a situation that
starts out slowly and progresses to the point where you have to be less
civilized than the guy holding you up? 1 in 100 maybe. Remeber as
well...you don;t gey a chance to say "just a minute...i have to go get my
gun from the cupboard". you have to be packing overtly and in that case
the guy with nothing to loose is the clear winner.
I am not being argumentative... i would really like to know. becaue i
don't think i could do it in spite of my ego saying "i could".
rick

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:18:31 GMT, TF wrote:

I'm looking for some cross-jurisdiction references relating to
regulations/laws for carrying firearms on a boat across coastal state US
lines. Any links etc would be appreciated.

Except that most pirates aren't interested in sailboats. Most
theives come aboard at night, when you're asleep. If you don't
confront them, they'll likely take the dink and keep going. If
you encounter a real pirate, the weapons they have will turn
your glass boat into Swiss Cheese.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Sailors are known for planning ahead. If you
plan ahead enough to bring a gun, it seems
likely that you would be smart enough to
practice and be prepared to use it.

There are new types of ammunition that will
not penetrate a hull and would be suitable
for defense on a boat, and/or for signal use.

More than a few stories tell how sailors
fired a couple shots and scared off pirates.

If you run out on deck waving a gun, without any
sort of a plan, you will probably get killed
yourself.

If you are a sheepeople, don't bring a gun. If
you are leader, that is capable and responsible,
perhaps you might want to consider firearms
as a means to protect your loved ones.

Bart Senior


none wrote

the temptation to flame is too great...however,i am serious when i ask,
Do
you know you could get the first shot off without hestation?
I am no prude and own guns but i am torn when it comes to carrying them
in
foreign waters. The stats indicate that armed people are far more likely
to get hurt or killed by ther own weapons. We don't practice firing from
the hip on from instinct evry day..and fear is the worst situation under
which to learn and practice using your weapon. you can't learn to be a
killer in an instant.
dunno...just saying. and inspite of all the macho guys that "_say_" they
could kill to defend themslves in a heartbeat: in WWII only one in three
soldiers fired their weapons in battle! and these were guys that wee
being shot at! what do you think that number would be in a situation
that
starts out slowly and progresses to the point where you have to be less
civilized than the guy holding you up? 1 in 100 maybe. Remeber as
well...you don;t gey a chance to say "just a minute...i have to go get
my
gun from the cupboard". you have to be packing overtly and in that case
the guy with nothing to loose is the clear winner.
I am not being argumentative... i would really like to know. becaue i
don't think i could do it in spite of my ego saying "i could".
rick

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:18:31 GMT, TF wrote:

I'm looking for some cross-jurisdiction references relating to
regulations/laws for carrying firearms on a boat across coastal state
US
lines. Any links etc would be appreciated.

If you read the piracy reports, most pirates
don't even have guns. Machete's and knifes are the
common weapons. A gun against a group of poorly
armed pirates is a fair match. Pirates run from
fair matches and look for weaker targets.

Also, for piracy against sailboats, you are as
likely to encounter trouble in daytime as nightime.
Do you remember the man who had his throat cut
a few years ago, and left for dead? The pirates
stopped by to ask for wate--in daytime.

Joshua Slocom defeated pirates by spreading tacks
on his deck. It would not be hard to rig noise
makers to lifelines, or rig a higher tech alternative
to alert you. Also, if you have a crew it might
be a bad idea of keep a watch even at anchor in
dangerous locations.

There have been cases where unarmed people were
killed or left for dead. The choice is still yours.
You can chose to protect yourself or put your faith
in God. Chances are high you will never need a gun.
The risk is small but still finite and real.

I'd rather have along a shotgun that could serve
double duty as a line thrower and signalling device.
I'd use it for signaling for sure.

Bart

By the way, some of the older glass hulls can stop
a full load .357. One inch of fiberglass is stronger
than you think.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

Except that most pirates aren't interested in sailboats. Most
theives come aboard at night, when you're asleep. If you don't
confront them, they'll likely take the dink and keep going. If
you encounter a real pirate, the weapons they have will turn
your glass boat into Swiss Cheese.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Sailors are known for planning ahead. If you
plan ahead enough to bring a gun, it seems
likely that you would be smart enough to
practice and be prepared to use it.

There are new types of ammunition that will
not penetrate a hull and would be suitable
for defense on a boat, and/or for signal use.

More than a few stories tell how sailors
fired a couple shots and scared off pirates.

If you run out on deck waving a gun, without any
sort of a plan, you will probably get killed
yourself.

If you are a sheepeople, don't bring a gun. If
you are leader, that is capable and responsible,
perhaps you might want to consider firearms
as a means to protect your loved ones.

Bart Senior

Sure, except that if you pull into a foreign port and declare
the gun, it'll be confiscated. If you don't declare it and they
find it, you'll go to prison. The chances of an attack is very,
very low, but one can make it even lower by taking a few
precautions. First one is don't go in areas where pirates
are known to be. Second, stay in a group if you do need
or want to go there. Third, lock things up and have them
looked like they're locked up. Fourth, use some of the
techniques you describe in your post.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
If you read the piracy reports, most pirates
don't even have guns. Machete's and knifes are the
common weapons. A gun against a group of poorly
armed pirates is a fair match. Pirates run from
fair matches and look for weaker targets.

Also, for piracy against sailboats, you are as
likely to encounter trouble in daytime as nightime.
Do you remember the man who had his throat cut
a few years ago, and left for dead? The pirates
stopped by to ask for wate--in daytime.

Joshua Slocom defeated pirates by spreading tacks
on his deck. It would not be hard to rig noise
makers to lifelines, or rig a higher tech alternative
to alert you. Also, if you have a crew it might
be a bad idea of keep a watch even at anchor in
dangerous locations.

There have been cases where unarmed people were
killed or left for dead. The choice is still yours.
You can chose to protect yourself or put your faith
in God. Chances are high you will never need a gun.
The risk is small but still finite and real.

I'd rather have along a shotgun that could serve
double duty as a line thrower and signalling device.
I'd use it for signaling for sure.

Bart

By the way, some of the older glass hulls can stop
a full load .357. One inch of fiberglass is stronger
than you think.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

Except that most pirates aren't interested in sailboats. Most
theives come aboard at night, when you're asleep. If you don't
confront them, they'll likely take the dink and keep going. If
you encounter a real pirate, the weapons they have will turn
your glass boat into Swiss Cheese.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Sailors are known for planning ahead. If you
plan ahead enough to bring a gun, it seems
likely that you would be smart enough to
practice and be prepared to use it.

There are new types of ammunition that will
not penetrate a hull and would be suitable
for defense on a boat, and/or for signal use.

More than a few stories tell how sailors
fired a couple shots and scared off pirates.

If you run out on deck waving a gun, without any
sort of a plan, you will probably get killed
yourself.

If you are a sheepeople, don't bring a gun. If
you are leader, that is capable and responsible,
perhaps you might want to consider firearms
as a means to protect your loved ones.

Bart Senior

By the way, some of the older glass hulls can stop
a full load .357. One inch of fiberglass is stronger
than you think.

not even close. a long time ago -- i.e. "old glass hull -- I fired a .22 into
fiberglass from a boat and the round went through almost as if it were
cardboard.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Except that most pirates aren't interested in sailboats. Most
theives come aboard at night, when you're asleep. If you don't
confront them, they'll likely take the dink and keep going. If
you encounter a real pirate, the weapons they have will turn
your glass boat into Swiss Cheese.

Another endorsement for steel hulls!


And they will not have a chance to board my boat at night
without me knowing.

Joe




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Sailors are known for planning ahead. If you
plan ahead enough to bring a gun, it seems
likely that you would be smart enough to
practice and be prepared to use it.

There are new types of ammunition that will
not penetrate a hull and would be suitable
for defense on a boat, and/or for signal use.

More than a few stories tell how sailors
fired a couple shots and scared off pirates.

If you run out on deck waving a gun, without any
sort of a plan, you will probably get killed
yourself.

If you are a sheepeople, don't bring a gun. If
you are leader, that is capable and responsible,
perhaps you might want to consider firearms
as a means to protect your loved ones.

Bart Senior


none wrote

the temptation to flame is too great...however,i am serious when i ask,
Do
you know you could get the first shot off without hestation?
I am no prude and own guns but i am torn when it comes to carrying them
in
foreign waters. The stats indicate that armed people are far more likely
to get hurt or killed by ther own weapons. We don't practice firing from
the hip on from instinct evry day..and fear is the worst situation under
which to learn and practice using your weapon. you can't learn to be a
killer in an instant.
dunno...just saying. and inspite of all the macho guys that "_say_" they
could kill to defend themslves in a heartbeat: in WWII only one in three
soldiers fired their weapons in battle! and these were guys that wee
being shot at! what do you think that number would be in a situation
that
starts out slowly and progresses to the point where you have to be less
civilized than the guy holding you up? 1 in 100 maybe. Remeber as
well...you don;t gey a chance to say "just a minute...i have to go get
my
gun from the cupboard". you have to be packing overtly and in that case
the guy with nothing to loose is the clear winner.
I am not being argumentative... i would really like to know. becaue i
don't think i could do it in spite of my ego saying "i could".
rick

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:18:31 GMT, TF wrote:

I'm looking for some cross-jurisdiction references relating to
regulations/laws for carrying firearms on a boat across coastal state
US
lines. Any links etc would be appreciated.

I never go anywhere overnight without a gun. In fact we just bought our first
auto (we've just had 357s until now) We got a Beretta 92FS 9mm. If it's good
enough for the military it's good enough for us.

The Veridican