katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems. I would intend to get a survey of both the
boat and the engine, and I'll pay more attention to the survey results
than the brokers.

It's interesting, however, that most of the brokers in this area have
not been high-pressure and in fact have been quite helpful. For
example, one of them I spoke with last weekend concluded that he really
didn't have anything with the characteristics and in the price range I
was looking for (32 to 35 ft., etc., that would qualify for chartering,
etc.). Before I left his office, I asked him what boats he would
consider for the uses I anticipate. - Despite the fact that he wasn't
going to make a sale, he spent a considerable amount of time discussing
a number of different boats, their characteristics, marketing factors,
various costs, resale values, financing etc. He then checked the
dealers' web sites of valuations and recent sales of several boats, and
gave me printouts of recent comparables. He also provided suggestions
regarding negotiating, initial offers, etc., and suggestions on survey
and repair facilities in the area, etc.

Of course, I'm going to place more confidence in the survey report, and
in all the helpful information (taken with a grain of salt) I'm getting
from folks on this ng, than in what a broker tells me. Unfortunately, I
haven't found much published information on the older boats I'm looking at.

Jim

Jim,=20
One suggestion...subscribe to "Good Old Boat" magazine...it's the best =
that will suit your needs. Oh, and remember, do NOT use a surveyor =
suggested by a broker! Find one independently.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:33:55 -0600, Jim Cate wrote:



katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems. I would intend to get a survey of both the
boat and the engine, and I'll pay more attention to the survey results
than the brokers.

It's interesting, however, that most of the brokers in this area have
not been high-pressure and in fact have been quite helpful. For
example, one of them I spoke with last weekend concluded that he really
didn't have anything with the characteristics and in the price range I
was looking for (32 to 35 ft., etc., that would qualify for chartering,
etc.). Before I left his office, I asked him what boats he would
consider for the uses I anticipate. - Despite the fact that he wasn't
going to make a sale, he spent a considerable amount of time discussing
a number of different boats, their characteristics, marketing factors,
various costs, resale values, financing etc. He then checked the
dealers' web sites of valuations and recent sales of several boats, and
gave me printouts of recent comparables. He also provided suggestions
regarding negotiating, initial offers, etc., and suggestions on survey
and repair facilities in the area, etc.

Of course, I'm going to place more confidence in the survey report, and
in all the helpful information (taken with a grain of salt) I'm getting
from folks on this ng, than in what a broker tells me. Unfortunately, I
haven't found much published information on the older boats I'm looking at.

Jim


Have you taken a look at the compilations of reviews done by Practical
Sailor? I find them informative and helpful. Buying the reports one
at a time gets expensive, but there are at least two "Buying Guides"
in which they reprinted many of their reviews. Additionally, if you
go to sailnet.com and check the message boards, you may find more of
the boat specific discussion you are looking for in the "Buying a
Boat" forum. If you don't see what you are looking for there, ask
about specific boats and you will likely get some good information
(along with some bad information)

Have you taken a look at the compilations of reviews done by Practical
Sailor?.

That would be like buying a car based on Consumer Reports.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

On 10 Mar 2004 04:40:07 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote:

Have you taken a look at the compilations of reviews done by Practical
Sailor?.

That would be like buying a car based on Consumer Reports.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

Are you morally opposed to gathering information before making a
decision? Jim is looking for some information to help him make the
*right* decision for him, starting at a baseline which is pretty close
to zero. It can be fairly daunting for someone starting out trying to
understand all the issues, large and small. I have found Practical
Sailor a good reference over the years. I also read Consumer Reports
before buying a car, and I haven't made a mistake yet

Jim,

Hey Group, don't sell Jim to short. He isn't without experience. He is a
Long Island Sound sailor, with a merchant mariner's license. He is in
another part of the country that is different and trying to come to
grips with it.

Ole Thom

In article , Jim Cate
wrote:

katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest
brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby
vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken
out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will
it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as
investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and
fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then
when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much
enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems.

Jim, the correct way to place a resale value on a boat for personal use
is to assume it'll be zero. That way you'll be under no delusions that
it's an investment and can enjoy it for what it is - a toy to provide
pleasure.

If you do end up selling it, anything you get will be a bonus.

Peter Wiley