felton wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:15:03 -0500, DSK wrote:


Jim Cate wrote:

It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over.

Umm, no. Either the boat(s) that I have seen as "Mac26M"s were not, or
they are the same hull. It might have 15 degree deadrise up near the
bow, but the transom looks like the letter "U". A wide one. Nor did the
old one have 8 degrees of deadrise (except maybe up near the bow).

Before you suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you
are the one asking me for advice, you check around some other sources.
For starters, park a "new" Mac26 next to an old one, and look carefully
at the hull shape.

It looks to me like you've been sold a bill of goods, and aren't going
to listen to the truth. If your sailing happiness is based on
self-delusion (and these days it seems like a lot of people base quite a
lot on this) then it would be most honorable for me to not try and
enlighten you.

DSK


Actually I am leaning towards the theory that "jim" either already
owns one, is in the business of selling them or is some sort of
disinformation campaign trying to resurrect the Mac26X/M from it's
well deserved position in the sailing Hall of Humor.

He starts off asking for advice and then begins his debates, claiming
that anyone who hasn't sailed one can't possibly have an informed
opinion. Although he seemed to know nothing of boats, which would
make him the target demographic for these things, he then begins to
articulate all the goofy advertising claims for the "new and improved"
Mac26, while lamenting that he might have to settle for a Cal or C&C.


One more time, I think we need to have some respect for basic principles
of logic and intellectual honesty. I asked for advice alright, but
instead, I got a crock of opinionated s___ from members who had never
sailed a 26M, and never spoke with anyone who had sailed one. I may not
be as experienced as you, but most of the responses so far are from
individuals who don't have a clue as to the changes made in the new 26M
model (no I DID NOT SAY THAT THE CHANGES MADE THE BOAT A GREAT SAILBOAT,
I merely said it's a subtantially different boat). Apparently, some
participants in this discussion are so stressed out that they get some
sort of weird satisfaction or pleasure from ridiculing someone they
think is a novice, who, they think, is going to be an "easy mark." I'll
be the first to agree with or express appreciation to anyone who posts
rational comments, including criticisms of the boat, etc., based on some
understanding of what the boat actually is. But this discussion is
largely a discussion of mostly hearsay about the characteristics of the
previous model.


a diwhat commentsthose who

I do wish Jim the best, though, in acquiring the Mac26M as it seems to
be the boat which meets his needs and fulfills his desires. I suspect
he needs to look elsewhere for confirmation. I have never yet met
anyone with any sailing background or ability who would agree with
him.

Really, How many people have you met who have sailed the 26M? Perhaps
50? Maybe 25? At least 10, right?

Jim

I've stayed away from this a lot because I think the Mac approach has some
benefits for the flat water boater. However, I don't think changing the
deadrise makes it a different boat; in fact there are some power boat companies
that offer the same hull with either a 15 degree or an 8 degree deadrise. It
will make it perform differently in some situations, and I have little doubt
that it may sail a bit better, but then it couldn't sail much worse.

The MacGregor approach may be the right thing for you, but don't delude yourself
that while the previous boat may have been junk the new one is totally
different.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


felton wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:15:03 -0500, DSK wrote:


Jim Cate wrote:

It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over.

Umm, no. Either the boat(s) that I have seen as "Mac26M"s were not, or
they are the same hull. It might have 15 degree deadrise up near the
bow, but the transom looks like the letter "U". A wide one. Nor did the
old one have 8 degrees of deadrise (except maybe up near the bow).

Before you suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you
are the one asking me for advice, you check around some other sources.
For starters, park a "new" Mac26 next to an old one, and look carefully
at the hull shape.

It looks to me like you've been sold a bill of goods, and aren't going
to listen to the truth. If your sailing happiness is based on
self-delusion (and these days it seems like a lot of people base quite a
lot on this) then it would be most honorable for me to not try and
enlighten you.

DSK


Actually I am leaning towards the theory that "jim" either already
owns one, is in the business of selling them or is some sort of
disinformation campaign trying to resurrect the Mac26X/M from it's
well deserved position in the sailing Hall of Humor.

He starts off asking for advice and then begins his debates, claiming
that anyone who hasn't sailed one can't possibly have an informed
opinion. Although he seemed to know nothing of boats, which would
make him the target demographic for these things, he then begins to
articulate all the goofy advertising claims for the "new and improved"
Mac26, while lamenting that he might have to settle for a Cal or C&C.


One more time, I think we need to have some respect for basic principles
of logic and intellectual honesty. I asked for advice alright, but
instead, I got a crock of opinionated s___ from members who had never
sailed a 26M, and never spoke with anyone who had sailed one. I may not
be as experienced as you, but most of the responses so far are from
individuals who don't have a clue as to the changes made in the new 26M
model (no I DID NOT SAY THAT THE CHANGES MADE THE BOAT A GREAT SAILBOAT,
I merely said it's a subtantially different boat). Apparently, some
participants in this discussion are so stressed out that they get some
sort of weird satisfaction or pleasure from ridiculing someone they
think is a novice, who, they think, is going to be an "easy mark." I'll
be the first to agree with or express appreciation to anyone who posts
rational comments, including criticisms of the boat, etc., based on some
understanding of what the boat actually is. But this discussion is
largely a discussion of mostly hearsay about the characteristics of the
previous model.


a diwhat commentsthose who

I do wish Jim the best, though, in acquiring the Mac26M as it seems to
be the boat which meets his needs and fulfills his desires. I suspect
he needs to look elsewhere for confirmation. I have never yet met
anyone with any sailing background or ability who would agree with
him.

Really, How many people have you met who have sailed the 26M? Perhaps
50? Maybe 25? At least 10, right?

Jim

but don't delude yourself
that while the previous boat may have been junk the new one is totally
different.


Jim, I saw the M at the AC boat show. It's the same junk, built just as lightly
as the original 26X. It's slightly reformed Junk.

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote


Jim, I saw the M at the AC boat show. It's the same junk, built just as
lightly
as the original 26X. It's slightly reformed Junk.


and yet, Macs have sailed to the Bahamas and to Hawaii. How far have you
sailed Bob?

and yet, Macs have sailed to the Bahamas and to Hawaii. How far have you
sailed Bob?


Dugout canoes and make-shift rafts have made those trips. Please explain to
everyone why you find the 26M and X so appealing. Outside of Jim you're the
only one who thinks this way.
As far as distance sailed, I did get to the Thimble Islands last summer, did
some of the Jersey Coast, logged plenty of daysails, overnighters and so on.
Pretty much what most people do. Let the group understand why you think this
has any bearing on the quality of the Mac sailboats.

We're all awaiting your thoughtful answers.

RB

Please repost where I wrote that.


"Bobsprit" wrote

Please explain to
everyone why you find the 26M and X so appealing.

Please repost where I wrote that.

You've been defending the Mac X and M. Fact.
Sorry. Both sides of the rail doesn't suit you.

RB

Scott, don't worry about it... bob could float from Hawaii no problem.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Please repost where I wrote that.


"Bobsprit" wrote

Please explain to
everyone why you find the 26M and X so appealing.

Yer a regular Josh Slocum, ain't ya?

"Bobsprit" wrote
As far as distance sailed, I did get to the Thimble Islands last summer,
did
some of the Jersey Coast, logged plenty of daysails, overnighters and so
on.

Yer a regular Josh Slocum, ain't ya?


Ah, well. Same old tune from Scotty...and no real answer as usual.

RB