Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

sniff, sniff.......kinda funny how 'Jim' and 'Bob' use the same phrases and
misspell the same words.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said
was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was
aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told
it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A
3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design
limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While
it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are
downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously
think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

Sure is... SOCKPUPPET ALERT. Danger Will Robinson.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
sniff, sniff.......kinda funny how 'Jim' and 'Bob' use the same phrases
and
misspell the same words.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said
was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I
was
aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the
26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was
told
it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd.
A
3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design
limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one.
While
it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are
downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously
think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

melges 24. mumm 30. j-22. j-29. j-30. Cape Dory Typhoon. venture 22.
Flicka.

Anything. Buy a boat!

which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?

which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?

MacGregor 65. An **incredible** PHRF, AND about the same price used as a Mac
26 new.

JAXAshby wrote:
which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?


MacGregor 65. An **incredible** PHRF, AND about the same price used as a Mac
26 new.



Great. a Mac 65 for around $28K. Whom do I make my check out to?

Jim

Great. a Mac 65 for around $28K. Whom do I make my check out to?

You may want to contact some previous owners to see what they spent to make the
boat competitive.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

There's been one sitting in a slip here in Boston for at least 10 years without
moving. You could probably get that one real, real cheap.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


JAXAshby wrote:
which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?


MacGregor 65. An **incredible** PHRF, AND about the same price used as a
Mac
26 new.



Great. a Mac 65 for around $28K. Whom do I make my check out to?

Jim