offshore santana 525
 

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how a Santana 525 performs in costal and offshore
conditions? Thanks so much.

Richard

offshore santana 525
 

Richard Randall wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how a Santana 525 performs in costal and offshore
conditions? Thanks so much.

What do you mean by "performs"? It is a fairly lightweight boat and will
not much like big waves. OTOH given a skilled & alert helmsman &
trimmer, surfing one would be a lot of fun.

It would be way down my list of production racer/cruisers for offshore
sailing, but if you've already got one (or are about to get the deal of
a lifetime on one) the offshore caracteristics ought not hold you back.
Shucks people have crossed oceans in waterproofed refrigerator packing
crates.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

offshore santana 525
 

I guess by perform I mean how tender or stiff it is. But out of
curiousity, what would be your list of racer/cruisers 26 feet and
under. I'm drawn to the 525 because it much less expensive than a J24
or Merit 25.

thanks

r



DSK wrote in message ...
Richard Randall wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how a Santana 525 performs in costal and offshore
conditions? Thanks so much.

What do you mean by "performs"? It is a fairly lightweight boat and will
not much like big waves. OTOH given a skilled & alert helmsman &
trimmer, surfing one would be a lot of fun.

It would be way down my list of production racer/cruisers for offshore
sailing, but if you've already got one (or are about to get the deal of
a lifetime on one) the offshore caracteristics ought not hold you back.
Shucks people have crossed oceans in waterproofed refrigerator packing
crates.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

offshore santana 525
 

Richard Randall wrote:
I guess by perform I mean how tender or stiff it is. But out of
curiousity, what would be your list of racer/cruisers 26 feet and
under. I'm drawn to the 525 because it much less expensive than a J24
or Merit 25.

Well remember that the cost of commissioning a boat, especially for
offshore sailing, will be proportionate to how much rebuilding,
rerigging, and re-equipping she needs over and above purchase price. For
a low budget boat, you could be looking at double!

One reason why the Santanas (and their sisters, the Schocks) are at the
lower end of the price scale, is that the builder Schock has rather a
mixed reputation. Some of their boats have been quite well built, others
have had some fairly dramatic structural failures. One race I was in
long ago had a Santana 35 peel a winch off the cockpit side as though it
were a banana shedding it's skin. Not desirable offshore no matter the
price!

How about a Moore 24? Another option (with more cabin too) the Ranger
26... or little sister the Ranger 23. Or one of the small Ericsons, they
made a couple of 25' and 23' models. Another good pick, one of the
Mirage, S2, or Aloha boats but might be at the higher end of the price
scale. How about a Soverel 26? They've made TransPacs & return (the trip
back is actually much more challenging).

One boat I feel I ought to mention specifically is the Yamaha 26. They
sail pretty well (not quite as fast as the Santana, Moore, or Soverel)
and the one I have been on is quite well built. Often they are for sale
at quite low prices, a friend of mine has one that he picked up for a
song. Plus, it's a cool looking boat IMHO (counts for something, right).

The priorities I'd look at are 1- basic suitability for the kind of
sailing you want to do, which would mean within a certain envelope of
SA/Disp, D/L, not excessively beamy 2- original build quality 3-
current condition versus price. A well maintained and well equipped boat
may be asking a higher price, yet cost less to actually take sailing,
than a bargain boat that you'd have to re-equip from scratch.

Almost everyone understimates how much it costs to fix up boats. Been
there, done that, got the epoxy spotted T-shirt ;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

offshore santana 525
 

On 26 Feb 2004, (Richard Randall) wrote:

I guess by perform I mean how tender or stiff it is. But out of
curiousity, what would be your list of racer/cruisers 26 feet and
under. I'm drawn to the 525 because it much less expensive than a J24
or Merit 25.

To what extent is your concern primarily "costal" compared with
"off-shore" compared with PHRF racing conditions?

And re. alternatives, what about, e.g., a well-maintained Pearson 26?

offshore santana 525
 

I'm drawn to the 525 because it much less expensive than a J24 or Merit
25.

Buy a Merit. You'll never be sorry.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

My concerns a because I live on the NE coast my ideal cruising
ground is the Atlantic coast day sailing and making port-to-port
recreational trips. But I really want a boat I can also race if want.
I want to do the Figawi in 2005 and the notice of race said a boat of
any length can enter so long as its PHRF rating is under 200. Even
for day sailing I still want a boat that can point and is fun to
actively sail. I don't really have a need for standing head room or TV
and VCR. The only sailing I realy ever done is racing so I'm used to
spartan interiors and peeing in a bucket. I would like to be able to
single hand it. A guy wants to sell me his 525, including a trailer,
basic sail inventory (5 total), motor, spin gear, for $2000 and the
boat looks pretty good. I've looked at J24s and the cheapest I can
find is twice that for a boat that hasn't seen bottom work in a long
time and without a trailer. Same for merit 25s. Honestly, I would
get an S2 7.9, but the cheapest I've found one of those is $10,000.
Merits are very cool too, but still in the 6,000 to 8,000 range.

Basically, I love to sail, want to have fun, race for fun, and every
once in a while sail from RI to the Cape or to the Chesapeake Bay.

best,
Richard

wrote in message .. .
On 26 Feb 2004, (Richard Randall) wrote:

I guess by perform I mean how tender or stiff it is. But out of
curiousity, what would be your list of racer/cruisers 26 feet and
under. I'm drawn to the 525 because it much less expensive than a J24
or Merit 25.

To what extent is your concern primarily "costal" compared with
"off-shore" compared with PHRF racing conditions?

And re. alternatives, what about, e.g., a well-maintained Pearson 26?

offshore santana 525
 

"Richard Randall" wrote in message
om...
My concerns a because I live on the NE coast my ideal cruising
ground is the Atlantic coast day sailing and making port-to-port
recreational trips. But I really want a boat I can also race if want.
I want to do the Figawi in 2005 and the notice of race said a boat of
any length can enter so long as its PHRF rating is under 200. Even
for day sailing I still want a boat that can point and is fun to
actively sail. I don't really have a need for standing head room or TV
and VCR. The only sailing I realy ever done is racing so I'm used to
spartan interiors and peeing in a bucket. I would like to be able to
single hand it. A guy wants to sell me his 525, including a trailer,
basic sail inventory (5 total), motor, spin gear, for $2000 and the
boat looks pretty good

It sounds like you have found your perfect boat. If you are confident about
its condition, then you should buy it - before somebody else does!



Regards


Donal
--

offshore santana 525
 

"Richard Randall" wrote in message
om...

My concerns a because I live on the NE coast my ideal cruising
ground is the Atlantic coast day sailing and making port-to-port
recreational trips. But I really want a boat I can also race if want.
I want to do the Figawi in 2005 and the notice of race said a boat of
any length can enter so long as its PHRF rating is under 200

BG I'm getting old. If the "Figawi" is the race between Hyannis and
Nantucket (always thought it was spelled "Fugawi" .... may have been
cleaned up), I remember the first, let's go race, get drunk, and see who
can find Nantucket, race, before it became "sanctioned". Remember a boat
called the "Moby Dick" which may have won the thing ....ugliest damned
boat you ever saw ....looked like Moby Dick.

otn

offshore santana 525
 

Merit 25, Merit 25, Merit 25.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

So I'm curious. The recent sinking in San Francisco was a Merit 30. It seems
rather unacceptable that a 30 foot boat could be rolled and sunk in a few
minutes. Of course, they did apparently get inside the surf line, but still it
didn't speak well of the boat.

Is the Merit 25 more seaworthy than the Santana?



"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Merit 25, Merit 25, Merit 25.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

So I'm curious. The recent sinking in San Francisco was a Merit 30. It
seems
rather unacceptable that a 30 foot boat could be rolled and sunk in a few
minutes. Of course, they did apparently get inside the surf line, but still it
didn't speak well of the boat.

Is the Merit 25 more seaworthy than the Santana?

I would like to see the story on that sinking since as far as I know Merit
never made a 30. Plus you say a it's unacceptable for a boat inside a surf
line to get rolled? Get real!
Merit made around 1200 25s which by the way were the only 3+ time winner
of the MORC Internationals. They made 650+ 22s. They also made a winged keel
version of the 22 which they called a 23. They made 2 or 3 28s which were
designed by NM and were screamers almost winning the Internationals out of the
box with a private owner.
I would say the 25 is pretty seaworthy. They have been singlehanded to
Hawaii more than once. The Merit 25 is a great boat.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

Sorry, it was a Newport 30, not a Merit. Here's a report from the owner, the
father of helmsman who was lost:

Yes, it was my Newport 30 that was lost off San Francisco.
It was just purchased in Marina Del Ray in January. Hull #CPY 420.
It was the boat which I had seen posted on this site as being for sale on
Ebay!
I had purchased the boat in Marina del Ray, sailed it for a week in January
and left it in Santa Barbara.
Myself, my son Erik and a friend, Brad went back down Feb 13 to Santa
Barbara and were sailing up to San Francisco when the accident happened. My
son has not been found. Most of the newspaper articles are totally
inaccurate and should be read with a large grain of salt. There were no
helicopters involved, the winds are exagerated, and many more inaccuracies.
The subject is difficult to talk about at this time, but if you would like
to debate something worthwhile it might be whether to wear the harness or
floatation devices, in what scenario or when?
My son was at the helm and was wearing the harness and tether was our
practice all the way up the coast. Brad was wearing a Mustang floater coat
and I was not wearing either. I was the one who should not be here today.
The tether is likely to have been the cause of my son's death, as it seems
he was not able to release himself from the boat when it went down. Only
speculation is posible why not, but no definitive answers. The boat to my
best guess went down in aprox. 45 secs. the waves were 15 seconds apart and
we got hit broadside by 3 when Brad and I were washed overboard. My son was
still aboard the boat at this time, and I saw one more wave coming at the
boat then. The boat was never seen again. I beleive the safety harness
dragged Erik down with the boat.
The Latitude38 article is the most inacurate piece of slop I have seen on
the accident and they really should try getting some facts before printing
articles which people might be tempted to believe.





"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
So I'm curious. The recent sinking in San Francisco was a Merit 30. It
seems
rather unacceptable that a 30 foot boat could be rolled and sunk in a few
minutes. Of course, they did apparently get inside the surf line, but still
it
didn't speak well of the boat.

Is the Merit 25 more seaworthy than the Santana?

I would like to see the story on that sinking since as far as I know Merit
never made a 30. Plus you say a it's unacceptable for a boat inside a surf
line to get rolled? Get real!
Merit made around 1200 25s which by the way were the only 3+ time winner
of the MORC Internationals. They made 650+ 22s. They also made a winged keel
version of the 22 which they called a 23. They made 2 or 3 28s which were
designed by NM and were screamers almost winning the Internationals out of the
box with a private owner.
I would say the 25 is pretty seaworthy. They have been singlehanded to
Hawaii more than once. The Merit 25 is a great boat.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

http://www.well.com/user/pk/M25.html
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

offshore santana 525
 

"Richard Randall" wrote...
My concerns a because I live on the NE coast my ideal cruising
ground is the Atlantic coast day sailing and making port-to-port
recreational trips. But I really want a boat I can also race if want.
I want to do the Figawi in 2005 and the notice of race said a boat of
any length can enter so long as its PHRF rating is under 200. Even
for day sailing I still want a boat that can point and is fun to
actively sail.

Totally makes sense to me. Keep in mind that coastal cruising in New England can
mean anything from flat calm to fog to tidal races thru big rocks, hurricanes,
etc etc. A certain amount of knowledge & prudence is a prerequisite, and the
more skillful the skipper the less bulletproof the boat need be.



I don't really have a need for standing head room or TV
and VCR. The only sailing I realy ever done is racing so I'm used to
spartan interiors and peeing in a bucket. I would like to be able to
single hand it. A guy wants to sell me his 525, including a trailer,
basic sail inventory (5 total), motor, spin gear, for $2000 and the
boat looks pretty good


Donal wrote:
It sounds like you have found your perfect boat. If you are confident about
its condition, then you should buy it - before somebody else does!

Agreed... I hate to be a cynic but it must be considered that the reason this
guy wants to sell it to you for $2K is that he really couldn't get that for it
on the open market. I'd be enthusiastic but very very thorough in checking out
the boat. Remember the nuclear treaty motto... "Trust, but verify."

It's a tall order finding a boat that rates under 200 for less than 6K. Taking a
quick peek at the boat market, I saw an Evelyn 24 in Freeport Me; a Capri 25 in
Florida (not sure that would do you any good); a 24' S2 (doesn't say which
model, apparently a fin keel) in NY;

Or you might consider a trailerable pocket rocket. This thing is a real sleeper,
a friend of mine has one.
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...ityid=11600481

I've seen this same boat sailing, it's a pretty good deal. Doesn't look like it
has much cabin space, though
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...ityid=11682431

I also saw a couple of J-24s but in this price range they're almost certain to
be beaters & fixer-uppers that would cost you double the purchase (or more) to
actually get in racing condition. This is an issue to keep in mind, even racing
a small centerboard one-design costs. If you are struggling to afford the boat,
will you be able to afford the upkeep?

A boat that jumped to mind was the Morgan 27, which is a late 1970s MORC racer
that makes a nice weekender/cruiser; but didn't see a listing for one. Get out
there and beat the bushes.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

offshore santana 525
 

If the inteior bulkhead are firm and well connected, it looks like you
got a boat.

Drill a hole in that damn sliding door and pin it open or shut.

Happy sailing