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Cal 30 Wheel Steering
I am considering a 1982 Cal 30 for bay and coastal cruising near the
Houston - Galveston area. The plan would be to leave the boat with one of the local charter sail organizations that would provide docking and light maintenance of the boat. They indicated that they would anticipate good rentals for such a boat, assuming that it is surveyed and shown to be in good condition, but they would not accept it unless the existing tiller steering mechanism can be converted to wheel steering. - They tell me that there are shops in the area who can do such work for around $1,000 to $1,500. Does anyone have any experience or information concerning such a conversion? Someone suggested that Cal, or another marine equipment source, may be able to provide a kit of necessary components for installing the wheel. I would also be interested in any comments from those with experience re the Cal 30. I have sailed a somewhat larger Cal (33?) and was impressed with it as a stable though perhaps not very speedy boat, suitable for "near-shore" blue water sailing. Thanks, Jim Cate |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Jim Cate wrote:
[ In considering a 1982 Cal 30 for bay and coastal cruising near Houston - Galveston which I might also want to offer for rental I'm advised I ought consider converting from the existing tiller to wheel steering, which I've been told can be done for around $1,000 to $1,500, and I wonder about equipment sources and experience with this boat in general in terms of whether it is/isn't ] stable though perhaps not very speedy boat, suitable for "near-shore" blue water sailing. Query whether you've actually verified that the guesstimated conversion price to which you refer is realistic/reliable (though, relatedly, you don't make clear whether you have in mind canibalization [of reliable equipment?] compared with buying new) Further, since you don't say anything whatever about - the equipment/condition of the particular boat you've looked at (other than that it is designed with and has a tiller), or - about where in the +/- $13-to-$21K price range these sorts of boats appear to be offered for sale you probably would pay for that boat, or - what (if any) esthetic/utility enhancement to _you_ (as compared with your contemplated part time rental agent and renters) you believe probably would result from the conversion apart from dollar cost (not even whether you would/wouldn't care how the conversion probably will affect that boat's comparatively limited cockpit space, etc.), or - probably how long you will keep/use the boat, or - whether you even care (one way or t'other) whether if (when?) you sell or trade the wheel instead of tiller will/won't enhance the liklihood of a later sale by you or whether you probably will/won't recoup any of the the dollar cost of conversion, you make it difficult for anyone to offer any (for _you_) probably reliable suggestions. As for new equipment sources, probably the most well known (but not the only one) is Edson (which, if asked, will give you an equipment list and price for your model sailboat), re. which see: http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/sailboat_toc.html Re. the boat itself, you might want to look thought the Sailnet List archives for comments by owners/users and see whether Practical Sailor has reviewed the particular model you have in mind. Arguably the most signficant element of your posting/query is less what (if any) brand of steering wheel to install (or not), or any element of sailing, as such, but rather that it suggests the desirability of your reading and thinking carefully about the issues raised (and, perhaps, the books reviewed in) the March 1, 2004 issue of "The New Yorker" magazine re. choice-making: http://www.newyorker.com/critics/art/?040301crbo_books |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Re. a proposed purchase for +/- $17,000 of a 1982 Cal. 30, on Thu, 26
Feb 2004, Jim Cate further wrote in pertinent part:: I thought I might get some helpful information from sailers on the ng who had looked into this already, so that I would have some knowledte of what's involved and what price ranges to expect. - That's why I posted the note in the first place. And that's why I suggest that it would be desirable for you to verify whether the +/- $1,500 cost to which you referred was realistic and gave you the link to the Edson catalog (from which you readily would have determined that a new purchase just of the equipment if from that supplier would probably cost in that range quite apart from the labor and related fiberglassing costs of installation and which would have also led you to other materials to the effect that other manufacturers' products are similarly priced). I have a strong preference for wheel steering. So do I. Yet I also recognize that many others prefer a tiller and (obviously) that the boat to which you refer is designed for and presently equipped with tiller steering. * * * if I decided to sell the boat (or . . . died and my wife had to sell the boat), it would be far, far, easier to sell with a wheel steering system than with a tiller. Maybe, you can predict the likely market in the Galveston Bay area if (you don't say: when) you later decide to sell or you die; but, maybe, you can't. But even if correct, this rejoinder begs the question whether one reason such a sale will be "easier" (especially if "far, far" so) is that the price at which such a boat realistically will be sell-able will not reflect any (much less: anything approaching full) reimbursement to you of the conversion costs (and, as earlier noted, maybe you don't care). why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get answers to my immediate questions first, before I go further? For example, what's involved in making such a conversion; . . . You already know: what is "involved" is buying or finding a donator of used pedestal, wheel, cables, and related equipment (as, among others, Edson will tell you and as you readily could have determined by looking at the Edson catalog or by telephoning that company); then in doing the installation/(re)glassing, etc. Further, if (as I presume is so though you haven't actually said) you're referring to the Cal 9.2 [meter] model, the rudder design almost certainly isn't susceptible to use of external cabling compared with the need to install an internal under-deck wheel or rack/pinion; and so the labor involved ought not be underestimated. Which is also why I suggested that you verify the price you say had been indicated (but not actually explicitly/bindingly quoted) to you. . . . does anyone have experience in such a project, and what were their experience; and, are there any kits that would simplify the job. As I told you, Edson will give you a suggested packgage/kit price, and others probably will do the same. In other words, if such a project is not practicable, or if the costs are far more than the dollar range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I have already sailed on similar Cals several times.) Apart from the actual net dollar cost for parts/labor, it would be difficult to believe that (perhaps especially in such a popular sailing area as Galveston) one could not more or less readily find a comparable boat which will satisfy your "strong preference for wheel steering" yet at a comparable price (but with the wheel rather than tiller already installed/workable). |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... wrote: Query whether you've actually verified that the guesstimated conversion price to which you refer is realistic/reliable Nope. I thought I might get some helpful information from sailers on the ng who had looked into this already, so that I would have some knowledte of what's involved and what price ranges to expect. - That's why I posted the note in the first place. It sounds like you don't recognise helpful suggestions when you get them. Again, my note requested suggestions and advice as to the best way to approach the matter, and whether kits were available for the project. I don't know the best way to approach the matter, or whether it is one that is commonly done within the price ranges mentioned, and that's why I posted the inquiry in the first place. Wrong. You posted your *e*nquiry because you were hoping that people would tell you that your preferred course of action was correct. Unfortunately, the idea of converting a 30 ft boat to wheel steering, is of such limited appeal, that you are unlikely to find much support among sailors. This is because a tiller is much better than a wheel. The only reason that bigger (35ft+) boats have wheels is that tillers become impossible to use. Further, since you don't say anything whatever about - the equipment/condition of the particular boat you've looked at (other than that it is designed with and has a tiller), or I have a strong preference for wheel steering. I can't explain exactly why, but I don't like the idea of me and my guests having to jump out of the way of a long tiller extenting into the cockpit I have a gut feeling that you haven't sailed very much. If my assumption is correct, then you should consider using the boat for a year before worrying about the conversion. snip a tiller. Although I'm aware of pros and cons of the two systems, there are MANY MORE POTENTIAL BUYERS of a 30-foot sailboat having wheel steering. That surprises me. - whether you even care (one way or t'other) whether if (when?) you sell or trade the wheel instead of tiller will/won't enhance the liklihood of a later sale by you or whether you probably will/won't recoup any of the the dollar cost of conversion, Your opinion that having wheel steering rather than a tiller won't enhance the likelihood of a later sale if flat-out wrong. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But in our area, in which there are lots of relatively new sailboats in the water and at the boat shows, and in which there are lots of boats for sale, a tiller would be a big problem in marketing the boat. . you make it difficult for anyone to offer any (for _you_) probably reliable suggestions. Well, if it's too difficult, don't waste any more of your time answering it.. - However, if you read the note and actually answered the questions asked, you would find that they really aren't that difficult. If the answers are so easy, then why can't you answer the questions yourself? Arguably the most signficant element of your posting/query is less what (if any) brand of steering wheel to install (or not), or any element of sailing, as such, but rather that it suggests the desirability of your reading and thinking carefully about the issues raised (and, perhaps, the books reviewed in) the March 1, 2004 issue of "The New Yorker" magazine re. choice-making: http://www.newyorker.com/critics/art/?040301crbo_books Read all the books? Great ide!!! - I'll do exactly that, when I get time to do it. - - But why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get answers to my immediate questions first, before I go further? Because you are very unlikely to get answers that agree with your preconceptions. As you only want to hear ideas that concur with your own, I think that you would be better off using Google, than asking on Usenet. With Google, you can choose which answers you want to read. With Usenet, you are going to have to deal with real opinions. If you cannot accept these without complaining, then you are not really suited to social interaction. For example, what's involved in making such a conversion; does anyone have experience in such a project, and what were their experience; and, are there any kits that would simplify the job. In other words, if such a project is not practicable, or if the costs are far more than the dollar range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I have already sailed on similar Cals several times.) I doubt that anybody here has made such a conversion. Most people here are relatively experienced, and they will view a wheel as a necessary evil on larger boats. Regards Donal -- |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
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Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on
a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note. Jim, some of the people in this NG wll generally just try to give you a hard time. The poster you are responding to has no info for you. The Cruising Board already told you what you needed to know. Unless you're getting that Cal for VERY cheap, don't get involved in the conversion. It won't be cheap and there are bound to be headaches along the way. Find a boat with a wheel and be happy. And you'll be happier still by not feeding the trolls (disguised as sailors) in this NG. Best of Luck, Robert B |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Donal wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... wrote: Query whether you've actually verified that the guesstimated conversion price to which you refer is realistic/reliable Nope. I thought I might get some helpful information from sailers on the ng who had looked into this already, so that I would have some knowledte of what's involved and what price ranges to expect. - That's why I posted the note in the first place. It sounds like you don't recognise helpful suggestions when you get them. Actually, I do recognize helpful suggestions when I get them. In fact, I posted the query on another newsgroup and received several helpful responses, including discussions of actual experiences in making such conversions. Again, my note requested suggestions and advice as to the best way to approach the matter, and whether kits were available for the project. I don't know the best way to approach the matter, or whether it is one that is commonly done within the price ranges mentioned, and that's why I posted the inquiry in the first place. Wrong. You posted your *e*nquiry because you were hoping that people would tell you that your preferred course of action was correct. Interesting. In addition to your sailing expertise, you are also a mind reader. In fact, however, I wasn't "hoping" for agreement one way or another. Unfortunately, the idea of converting a 30 ft boat to wheel steering, is of such limited appeal, that you are unlikely to find much support among sailors. This is because a tiller is much better than a wheel. The only reason that bigger (35ft+) boats have wheels is that tillers become impossible to use. I'm aware of advantages of tiller steering. I'm also aware that lots of sailors interested in boats of this size don't like it. Further, since you don't say anything whatever about - the equipment/condition of the particular boat you've looked at (other than that it is designed with and has a tiller), or I have a strong preference for wheel steering. I can't explain exactly why, but I don't like the idea of me and my guests having to jump out of the way of a long tiller extenting into the cockpit I have a gut feeling that you haven't sailed very much. If my assumption is correct, then you should consider using the boat for a year before worrying about the conversion. Is your "gut feeling" related in some respect to your "mind reading" talents? While I'm sure there are more experienced sailors than I on the ng, I have in fact sailed on boats including Endeavor, Valiant, Pearson, ODay, Cal, Catalinas, and others, and received training from the Annapolis Sailing School and others. My favorite was a 40-foot Valiant with cutter rig. Again, I'm sure there are others with more experience on the ng, which is why I asked the questions. snip a tiller. Although I'm aware of pros and cons of the two systems, there are MANY MORE POTENTIAL BUYERS of a 30-foot sailboat having wheel steering. That surprises me. - whether you even care (one way or t'other) whether if (when?) you sell or trade the wheel instead of tiller will/won't enhance the liklihood of a later sale by you or whether you probably will/won't recoup any of the the dollar cost of conversion, In your opinion, of course. Your opinion that having wheel steering rather than a tiller won't enhance the likelihood of a later sale if flat-out wrong. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But in our area, in which there are lots of relatively new sailboats in the water and at the boat shows, and in which there are lots of boats for sale, a tiller would be a big problem in marketing the boat. . you make it difficult for anyone to offer any (for _you_) probably reliable suggestions. I'm happy to consider any suggestions offered with a tiny grain of courtesy, and an acknowledgment that there just might be two sides to an issue. But I happen to have an aversion to cynics, snobs, and "experts" who seem to find satisfaction in putting others down. Well, if it's too difficult, don't waste any more of your time answering it.. - However, if you read the note and actually answered the questions asked, you would find that they really aren't that difficult. If the answers are so easy, then why can't you answer the questions yourself? I said that the questions asked in my note were easy, meaning that they were rather straightforward and could be answered simply by someone with relevant experience. - For example, I asked whether anyone knew whether conversion kits (not lists of parts) are available for such work, and whether anyone had experience relative to such conversions. The reason I asked the questions, of course, is that I didn't know the answers. Arguably the most signficant element of your posting/query is less what (if any) brand of steering wheel to install (or not), or any element of sailing, as such, but rather that it suggests the desirability of your reading and thinking carefully about the issues raised (and, perhaps, the books reviewed in) the March 1, 2004 issue of "The New Yorker" magazine re. choice-making: http://www.newyorker.com/critics/art/?040301crbo_books Read all the books? Great ide!!! - I'll do exactly that, when I get time to do it. - - But why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get answers to my immediate questions first, before I go further? Because you are very unlikely to get answers that agree with your preconceptions. My only preconceptions were that I had been told that the charter company wouldn't accept such a boat with tiller steering but that they would be happy to have it if the steering were converted to wheel steering, and that they further said that such conversions could be performed for approximately $1,000 to $1,500. From these statements, I had concluded that, since I wanted to leave the boat with the charter company, it might be a good idea to investigate further the practicality and costs of such conversions. I had no opinion whatsoever as to whether they were correct in telling me that they thought the Cal 30 could be successfully converted for this price. As you only want to hear ideas that concur with your own, I think that you would be better off using Google, than asking on Usenet. With Google, you can choose which answers you want to read. With Usenet, you are going to have to deal with real opinions. If you cannot accept these without complaining, then you are not really suited to social interaction. You certainly are under no obligation to respond to my notes. Let me assure you, however, that I can deal with anything you or nospam dish out. - Try me. For example, what's involved in making such a conversion; does anyone have experience in such a project, and what were their experience; and, are there any kits that would simplify the job. In other words, if such a project is not practicable, or if the costs are far more than the dollar range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I have already sailed on similar Cals several times.) I doubt that anybody here has made such a conversion. Most people here are relatively experienced, and they will view a wheel as a necessary evil on larger boats. Interesting. That would suggest (as I suspect you intended to infer) that my preference for wheel steering derives only from the fact that I must be relatively inexperienced and ignorant of the advantages of a tiller system. - But it would also suggest that "nospam" is relatively inexperienced, since he also stated that he preferred wheel steering. - Did you intend to include both me AND nospam in your "inexperienced, ignorant novice sailor" classification? However, as stated in my note, the issue of relevance relative to the conversion of the particular boat in question was not whether experienced sailors would prefer one or the other steering system. It was that most potential charterers and purchasers of such boats seem to prefer wheel steering, and that the charter company directly informed me that they would not accept the boat unless a wheel steering system was installed on it, in which case they would be happy to have it. Regards Donal -- |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Unfortunately, the idea of converting a 30 ft boat to wheel steering, is of
such limited appeal, that you are unlikely to find much support among sailors. This is because a tiller is much better than a wheel. Advantage of a tiller. Simple system with fewer parts to fail. Superior feel, especially good for racing. Advantage of a wheel Superior ergonomics Less fatiguing to use Easier for children and novices Doesn't sweep cockpit Allows for close mounting of instruments Engine controls at fingertips Lock off cabability a big plus For many sailors, it's simply more fun Allows multiple steering positions for helmsman The idea that "sailors" won't "support" a wheel conversion on a 30 footer makes little sense. A wheel steered boat is pretty much a "must" for any kind of charter system. Nearly every 30 footer in production has a wheel, unless they are heavily slanted to racing. I just think a better approach is to find a vessel that was wheel steered from the get-go and avoid a major project. RB |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
If you want a quote on parts, call West Marine "Edson Tech Hotline"
508-995-9711. You should look at the new West catalog, page 1080. Frankly, I'd have to agree that doing a conversion like this isn't worth it unless this is the boat of your dreams, if you can do it yourself cheaply. -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com "I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... wrote: Re. a proposed purchase for +/- $17,000 of a 1982 Cal. 30, on Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jim Cate further wrote in pertinent part:: I thought I might get some helpful information from sailers on the ng who had looked into this already, so that I would have some knowledte of what's involved and what price ranges to expect. - That's why I posted the note in the first place. And that's why I suggest that it would be desirable for you to verify whether the +/- $1,500 cost to which you referred was realistic and gave you the link to the Edson catalog (from which you readily would have determined that a new purchase just of the equipment if from that supplier would probably cost in that range quite apart from the labor and related fiberglassing costs of installation and which would have also led you to other materials to the effect that other manufacturers' products are similarly priced). Obviously, I would "verify" whether the +/- costs was realistic. But your asserion that I would "readily have determined" what a new purchase of the equipment from that supplier would probably cost, quite apart form the labor and related fiberglassing, etc., is preposterous. There is not listing of all necessary components in the Edson catalog, and there is no inication that the parts described relaing to steering conversions would or would not be needed or appropriate for the Cal 30. The catalog may be helpful for someone who knows what parts are necessary, but not to someone asking what's involved and what it may cost. I have a strong preference for wheel steering. So do I. Yet I also recognize that many others prefer a tiller and (obviously) that the boat to which you refer is designed for and presently equipped with tiller steering. * * * if I decided to sell the boat (or . . . died and my wife had to sell the boat), it would be far, far, easier to sell with a wheel steering system than with a tiller. Maybe, you can predict the likely market in the Galveston Bay area if (you don't say: when) you later decide to sell or you die; but, maybe, you can't. But even if correct, this rejoinder begs the question whether one reason such a sale will be "easier" (especially if "far, far" so) is that the price at which such a boat realistically will be sell-able will not reflect any (much less: anything approaching full) reimbursement to you of the conversion costs (and, as earlier noted, maybe you don't care). If the information I obtained from the charter company is correct, i.e., that such conversons can be made for around $1,500, and that customers of the charter company don't want to rent a boat of this size having tiller steering, then such a conversion would appear to be a logical and cost-effective investment. If it can't, then obviously it would not be a cost-effective investment. (If few sailors want to rent such a boat without wheel steering, it seems reasonable to assume that few saiors would want to purchase a boat of this size without wheel steering. Also, most of those I have spoken to concerning the matter also tell me that they would not want a boat of this size with tilelr steering.) I certainly haven't conducted a scientific poll of potential purchasers in this area (nor have you), so I'm making an estimate based on the available inforamtion. - But I don't know that this conclusion is sound or reasonable, which is why I posted the note asking for further information, whether there are kits for this purpose, and whether others have had experience in making such conversions. why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get answers to my immediate questions first, before I go further? For example, what's involved in making such a conversion; . . . You already know: what is "involved" is buying or finding a donator of used pedestal, wheel, cables, and related equipment Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note. (as, among others, Edson will tell you and as you readily could have determined by looking at the Edson catalog Nope. The Edson catalog doesn't tell me what is involved in making a conversion for a Cal 30, and I had no way of knowing what parts would be necessary, what fiberglass work would be involved (for all I knew, they would provide a SS support that would bolt to the deck with minimum fiberglas mods) or what labor costs might be involved. or by telephoning that company); Which company are you talking about, Edson or Cal??? I would assume that Cal would be the best source for such information, but it's my understanding that they are no longer in business. If Edson, how should I be expected to know that the publishers of the Edson catalog could or would explain to me what was involved re parts and labor in a conversion of a 1982 30-foot Cal? Your assumption that I could "readily" figure all this out from reading the catalog or calling the catalog publishers is absurd. Particularly since I made it plain that I didn't intend to do the work myself. then in doing the installation/(re)glassing, etc. Further, if (as I presume is so though you haven't actually said) you're referring to the Cal 9.2 [meter] model, the rudder design almost certainly isn't susceptible to use of external cabling compared with the need to install an internal under-deck wheel or rack/pinion; and so the labor involved ought not be underestimated. Which is also why I suggested that you verify the price you say had been indicated (but not actually explicitly/bindingly quoted) to you. This information is relevant to my inquiry, and it suggests to me that the job would probably be impractical relative to the Cal 30. Obviously, it's clear that I should verify the price before proceeding with any purchase of such a boat. - Obviously. . . . does anyone have experience in such a project, and what were their experience; and, are there any kits that would simplify the job. As I told you, Edson will give you a suggested packgage/kit price, and others probably will do the same. There's a difference between a "kit" of components necessary to do the job and a list of parts. I don't see any mention in your previous note of a "kit" of components necessary for such a conversion, only that Edson could provide a list of parts. I had asked whether a kit was available from Cal or another supplier, since it had been suggested to me that such kits were available, and that such a kit might simplify the work and provide some economy relative to buying all the parts individually. In other words, if such a project is not practicable, or if the costs are far more than the dollar range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I have already sailed on similar Cals several times.) Apart from the actual net dollar cost for parts/labor, it would be difficult to believe that (perhaps especially in such a popular sailing area as Galveston) one could not more or less readily find a comparable boat which will satisfy your "strong preference for wheel steering" yet at a comparable price (but with the wheel rather than tiller already installed/workable). Yes, there are lots of boats for sale in this area. However, on balance, this particular boat seems to be a good value relative to other boats of similar size and construction. It has an extensive list of equipment, new bottom and new through-hulls, engine in excellent condition according to the owner, etc. Thus, the equipment list and the reported condition of the particualar boat, when compared with comparable boats in the area, seemed to suggest that it may be a viable choice. However, if the tiller steering is a significant negative factor and if it can't be modified at a reasonable cost, I probably don't want to go further with it. Obviously, I would want to have the boat surveyed to verify its condition. Jim |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... snip It was that most potential charterers and purchasers of such boats seem to prefer wheel steering, and that the charter company directly informed me that they would not accept the boat unless a wheel steering system was installed on it, in which case they would be happy to have it. Hmmm. I'm surprised at the attitude of the charter company. I must say that I am also surprised that any charter company would consider putting a 22 y/o boat on their books. Do they offer any guarantees about the level of income that you can expect? Regards Donal -- |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
I must say that I am
also surprised that any charter company would consider putting a 22 y/o boat on their books. There are about a zillion small charter outfits that employ older boats, as long as they're clean and reliable. There's one that operates out of my club. They are always looking to make charter agreements with folks. There's a mid 80's catalina 34 that I know of that is in the program and it was run badly aground last season by two couples who decided to do a lot of drinking. When they asked me if we'd consider the charter deal we said no-way! RB |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Bobsprit wrote: I must say that I am also surprised that any charter company would consider putting a 22 y/o boat on their books. There are about a zillion small charter outfits that employ older boats, as long as they're clean and reliable. There's one that operates out of my club. They are always looking to make charter agreements with folks. There's a mid 80's catalina 34 that I know of that is in the program and it was run badly aground last season by two couples who decided to do a lot of drinking. When they asked me if we'd consider the charter deal we said no-way! RB The charter company would be happy to have the boat if it were surveyed and found to be in good, safe, fully operable condition. - My thought regarding leaving it with the chareter company was that it would relieve me of some of the problems involved in keeping up with maintenance, oversight, paying marina fees, etc. (The boat was offered at around $18,000 and reported as being in good working order with a good 11Hp Yanmar diesel, but I didn't get into checking out what other upgrades might be necessary. In view of the advice against such a steering system convesion and the accusation that I had already made my mind up in favor of the Cal before posting the intial questions, I'm now considering another approach. - That is, continue to charter boats in the 30-40 ft range when I can get time off to do some serious cruising, but also purchasing one of the new MacGregor 26M (their new model with deeper V-hull, dagger board, and a partial lead/partial water ballast), for use in the Galveston bay area and near shore coastal sailing. - In the Houston-Galveston area, we have many square miles of bay waters that aren't deep enough for keel sailboats, and I'm also interested in taking the grandchildren on outings, swimming, fishing, etc.) - Since this is somewhat out of the scope of the "Cal 30" question, I'll post another discussion topic. Jim |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Bobsprit wrote: Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note. Jim, some of the people in this NG wll generally just try to give you a hard time. The poster you are responding to has no info for you. The Cruising Board already told you what you needed to know. Unless you're getting that Cal for VERY cheap, don't get involved in the conversion. It won't be cheap and there are bound to be headaches along the way. Find a boat with a wheel and be happy. And you'll be happier still by not feeding the trolls (disguised as sailors) in this NG. Best of Luck, Robert B Thanks, Jim |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
I can get
time off to do some serious cruising, but also purchasing one of the new MacGregor 26M (their new model with deeper V-hull, dagger board, and a partial lead/partial water ballast), Jim, you can do a LOT better than the 26M. It's not a very good sailing boat. I strongly suggest more study/sailing time before you choose a boat. Robert B. C&C 32 NY |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
This is probably right. It's not as bad a boat as the X, but there are
a lot of others out there that are better. However, they do sell a lot of them, if that's any kind of endorsement. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... I can get time off to do some serious cruising, but also purchasing one of the new MacGregor 26M (their new model with deeper V-hull, dagger board, and a partial lead/partial water ballast), Jim, you can do a LOT better than the 26M. It's not a very good sailing boat. I strongly suggest more study/sailing time before you choose a boat. Robert B. C&C 32 NY |
Cal 30 Wheel Steering
Bobsprit wrote: I can get time off to do some serious cruising, but also purchasing one of the new MacGregor 26M (their new model with deeper V-hull, dagger board, and a partial lead/partial water ballast), Jim, you can do a LOT better than the 26M. It's not a very good sailing boat. I strongly suggest more study/sailing time before you choose a boat. Robert B. C&C 32 NY I posted a further note, see "MacGregor 26-Valiant 40" below, outlining what I see as advantages and disadvantages to the idea of (1) Chartering boats in the 30-35 -foot range from time to time, and (2) Getting one of the Mac 26M's for afternoon sails with our grandkids, or for fishing, etc. The initial costs are about the same as used boats in the 30-foot range, not including maintenance, dock fees, etc., but the available sailing areas in this area (Kemah-Galveston bay) we are limited unless you are willing to motor down to the gulf, which takes around five hours. Jim |
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30-35 -foot range from time to time, and (2) Getting one
of the Mac 26M's for afternoon sails with our grandkids, or for fishing, etc. The initial costs are about the same as used boats in the 30-foot range, not including maintenance, dock fees, etc., but the available sailing areas in this area (Kemah-Galveston bay) we are limited unless you are willing to motor down to the gulf, which takes around five hours. Jim, I see the problem, but understand that the Mac is pretty dull sailor. There are a few in my area and they don't seem to do anything well, least of all sail. The Mac also won't go too fast under power with some chop against her either. I actually knew a couple who got one as a gift. They knew little about boats, but soon were rid of it for a used Pearson. It's also a horribly ugly vessel, though I know the whole "beauty/beholder" bit. I guess if I was in your shoes I'd buy a 30 foot powerboat and strap a couple of Lasers to it, them sail them with the kids in various waters. This is just my opinion, of course. I'm sure others will offer good suggestions. RB |
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Bobsprit wrote: 30-35 -foot range from time to time, and (2) Getting one of the Mac 26M's for afternoon sails with our grandkids, or for fishing, etc. The initial costs are about the same as used boats in the 30-foot range, not including maintenance, dock fees, etc., but the available sailing areas in this area (Kemah-Galveston bay) we are limited unless you are willing to motor down to the gulf, which takes around five hours. Jim, I see the problem, but understand that the Mac is pretty dull sailor. There are a few in my area and they don't seem to do anything well, least of all sail. The Mac also won't go too fast under power with some chop against her either. I actually knew a couple who got one as a gift. They knew little about boats, but soon were rid of it for a used Pearson. It's also a horribly ugly vessel, though I know the whole "beauty/beholder" bit. I guess if I was in your shoes I'd buy a 30 foot powerboat and strap a couple of Lasers to it, them sail them with the kids in various waters. This is just my opinion, of course. I'm sure others will offer good suggestions. RB Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing experience has been on larger boats, in the 30-35 ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds), swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and heavy boat handling course. So I'm well aware that such boats are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three reefing lines lines for the main led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you could adjust both the roller furling jib and the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the cockpit.- It was stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water with the staysail and jib up, making some 9 knots. Also, owning one would certainly get me more respect from fellow sailors. But for our area and the anticipated uses of the boat, I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or provide the greatest satisfaction and enjoyment (since I can still charter a variety of larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats. But most of these boats seem to sit in the marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting time to go out, and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees, insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As mentioned, we have some grand kids who I think would not enjoy the relatively extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to good sailing areas and then back to the dock. (I'll investigate other marina choices, however.) Regarding the new Mac 26M model, several pretty substantial changes have been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than a flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel, rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. These are substantive changes, so I don't think it is reasonable to describe the handling and performance of the M model based on observations re the older models. However, I don't know how the new boat sails or handles under power or sail, which is why I posted my questions. Meanwhile, I'll be looking at some of the larger used boats for sale in our area also. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina, C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26. Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of course. fully known. I understand that you have a C&C, so I will assume that you would recommend them and I'll pay particular attention to any that look like a good buy. Jim |
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So I'm well aware that such boats are "better"
than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for blue water sailing. This is a vast understatement. The Mac will simply not be much fun to sail after a short while. It's not a very capable sailor at all. For daysailing I'd think a boat that's somewhat entertaining to sail would be a priority. I'd rather have fun on a good performing boat in restricted waters then have better range in one that sailed poorly. Just my 2 cents. RB |
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Jim Cate wrote in message ...
Donal wrote: "Jim Cate" Interesting. In addition to your sailing expertise, you are also a mind reader. In fact, however, I wasn't "hoping" for agreement one way or another. Your new here Jim, Donal is a mind reader and a Physic navigator! Plus he English, which explains most of his weirdness! Joe MSV RedCloud |
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"Bobsprit" wrote
The Mac will simply not be much fun to sail after a short while. What makes you say that? It's not a very capable sailor at all. Have you ever sailed one? For daysailing I'd think a boat that's somewhat entertaining to sail would be a priority. I'd rather have fun on a good performing boat in restricted waters then have better range in one that sailed poorly. Just my 2 cents. That's about what your opinion is worth. SV |
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If I had a siedlemann, I'd probably prefer damn near ANYTHING else as well.
Scott seems to still be unable to tell the difference between his old mac and the new powersailor incarnations. RB |
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Maybe then you'd learn how to spell it correctly.
SV wrote If I had a siedlemann, I'd probably prefer damn near ANYTHING else as well. BB |
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"Bobsprit" wrote ... It's not a very capable sailor at all. neither are you. |
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Why, because it's a SAILboat?
"Bobsprit" wrote ... If I had a siedlemann, I'd probably prefer damn near ANYTHING else as well. |
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"Bobsprit" wrote ...
It's not a very capable sailor at all. neither are you. Get over it already, Scotty. I'm truly not interested in trolling or responding to trolls. Enjoy, if it's your bag. RB |
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No troll, just an honest response.
Sorry, I forgot that you have a stick up your ass now. SV "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote ... It's not a very capable sailor at all. neither are you. Get over it already, Scotty. I'm truly not interested in trolling or responding to trolls. Enjoy, if it's your bag. RB |
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Sorry, I forgot that you have a stick up your ass now.
Oh well. I tried, folks. RB |
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An oar! (several of them)
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... No troll, just an honest response. Sorry, I forgot that you have a stick up your ass now. SV "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote ... It's not a very capable sailor at all. neither are you. Get over it already, Scotty. I'm truly not interested in trolling or responding to trolls. Enjoy, if it's your bag. RB |
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LOL
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... An oar! (several of them) "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... No troll, just an honest response. Sorry, I forgot that you have a stick up your ass now. SV "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote ... It's not a very capable sailor at all. neither are you. Get over it already, Scotty. I'm truly not interested in trolling or responding to trolls. Enjoy, if it's your bag. RB |
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"Bobsprit" wrote ... Sorry, I forgot that you have a stick up your ass now. Oh well. I tried, folks. and what? it wouldn't fit? |
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"Joe" wrote in message om... Jim Cate wrote in message ... Donal wrote: "Jim Cate" Interesting. In addition to your sailing expertise, you are also a mind reader. In fact, however, I wasn't "hoping" for agreement one way or another. Your new here Jim, Donal is a mind reader and a Physic navigator! Plus he English, which explains most of his weirdness! Joe is a redneck, (and an incompetent navigator) which explains why he gets almost everything wrong! Regards Donal -- |
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bob wouldn't like this post.
your sock puppet was funnier. SV wrote in message Good thing for Porta-Scotty and Gayanzy that they can now formalize their relationship out in Gayanzyland. BB |
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You're really showing your ignorance.
SV wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:16:09 -0500, "Scott Vernon" wrote: Maybe then you'd learn how to spell it correctly. The boat is not really worth expending that level of accuracy in spelling it's name. A Sidelmann by any other name would still be low budget crap. BB SV wrote If I had a siedlemann, I'd probably prefer damn near ANYTHING else as well. BB |
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Which moron are you?
wrote I'm not the moron who bought a Siedelmann! |
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you guessed wrong.
wrote so I'm guessing that compared to those that did, I'm not a moron at all. |
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I heard that morons don't guess well.
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... you guessed wrong. wrote so I'm guessing that compared to those that did, I'm not a moron at all. |
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Well, I can only speak from my experience of having my cock sucked by
women, and they're not usually capable of talking during the act. Of course, someone with your err wide range of experience (including presumably with guys) perhaps should enlighten us... or not. wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:48:27 -0500, "Scott Vernon" wrote: bob wouldn't like this post. Hopw would you know what Bob likes, unless you asked him while sucking his cock? BB your sock puppet was funnier. SV wrote in message Good thing for Porta-Scotty and Gayanzy that they can now formalize their relationship out in Gayanzyland. BB |
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Well, I can only speak from my experience of having my cock sucked by
women, and they're not usually capable of talking during the act. Sheesh, people. Anyone meeting for ultimate frisbee in the schoolyard later? RB |
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