Re. a proposed purchase for +/- $17,000 of a 1982 Cal. 30, on Thu, 26
Feb 2004, Jim Cate further wrote in pertinent part::

I thought I might get some helpful information
from sailers on the ng who had looked into this
already, so that I would have some knowledte
of what's involved and what price ranges to expect.
- That's why I posted the note in the first place.

And that's why I suggest that it would be desirable for you to verify
whether the +/- $1,500 cost to which you referred was realistic and
gave you the link to the Edson catalog (from which you readily would
have determined that a new purchase just of the equipment if from that
supplier would probably cost in that range quite apart from the labor
and related fiberglassing costs of installation and which would have
also led you to other materials to the effect that other
manufacturers' products are similarly priced).

I have a strong preference for wheel steering.

So do I.

Yet I also recognize that many others prefer a tiller and (obviously)
that the boat to which you refer is designed for and presently
equipped with tiller steering.

* * * if I decided to sell the boat (or . . . died and
my wife had to sell the boat), it would be far, far, easier
to sell with a wheel steering system than with a tiller.

Maybe, you can predict the likely market in the Galveston Bay area if
(you don't say: when) you later decide to sell or you die; but, maybe,
you can't. But even if correct, this rejoinder begs the question
whether one reason such a sale will be "easier" (especially if "far,
far" so) is that the price at which such a boat realistically will be
sell-able will not reflect any (much less: anything approaching full)
reimbursement to you of the conversion costs (and, as earlier noted,
maybe you don't care).

why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get
answers to my immediate questions first, before
I go further? For example, what's involved in making
such a conversion; . . .

You already know: what is "involved" is buying or finding a donator of
used pedestal, wheel, cables, and related equipment (as, among others,
Edson will tell you and as you readily could have determined by
looking at the Edson catalog or by telephoning that company); then in
doing the installation/(re)glassing, etc. Further, if (as I presume
is so though you haven't actually said) you're referring to the Cal
9.2 [meter] model, the rudder design almost certainly isn't
susceptible to use of external cabling compared with the need to
install an internal under-deck wheel or rack/pinion; and so the labor
involved ought not be underestimated. Which is also why I suggested
that you verify the price you say had been indicated (but not actually
explicitly/bindingly quoted) to you.

. . . does anyone have experience in such a project,
and what were their experience; and, are there any
kits that would simplify the job.

As I told you, Edson will give you a suggested packgage/kit price, and
others probably will do the same.

In other words, if such a project is not practicable,
or if the costs are far more than the dollar
range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing
the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I
have already sailed on similar Cals several times.)

Apart from the actual net dollar cost for parts/labor, it would be
difficult to believe that (perhaps especially in such a popular
sailing area as Galveston) one could not more or less readily find a
comparable boat which will satisfy your "strong preference for wheel
steering" yet at a comparable price (but with the wheel rather than
tiller already installed/workable).

wrote:

Re. a proposed purchase for +/- $17,000 of a 1982 Cal. 30, on Thu, 26
Feb 2004, Jim Cate further wrote in pertinent part::


I thought I might get some helpful information
from sailers on the ng who had looked into this
already, so that I would have some knowledte
of what's involved and what price ranges to expect.
- That's why I posted the note in the first place.


And that's why I suggest that it would be desirable for you to verify
whether the +/- $1,500 cost to which you referred was realistic and
gave you the link to the Edson catalog (from which you readily would
have determined that a new purchase just of the equipment if from that
supplier would probably cost in that range quite apart from the labor
and related fiberglassing costs of installation and which would have
also led you to other materials to the effect that other
manufacturers' products are similarly priced).


Obviously, I would "verify" whether the +/- costs was realistic. But
your asserion that I would "readily have determined" what a new purchase
of the equipment from that supplier would probably cost, quite apart
form the labor and related fiberglassing, etc., is preposterous. There
is not listing of all necessary components in the Edson catalog, and
there is no inication that the parts described relaing to steering
conversions would or would not be needed or appropriate for the Cal 30.
The catalog may be helpful for someone who knows what parts are
necessary, but not to someone asking what's involved and what it may cost.


I have a strong preference for wheel steering.


So do I.

Yet I also recognize that many others prefer a tiller and (obviously)
that the boat to which you refer is designed for and presently
equipped with tiller steering.


* * * if I decided to sell the boat (or . . . died and
my wife had to sell the boat), it would be far, far, easier
to sell with a wheel steering system than with a tiller.


Maybe, you can predict the likely market in the Galveston Bay area if
(you don't say: when) you later decide to sell or you die; but, maybe,
you can't. But even if correct, this rejoinder begs the question
whether one reason such a sale will be "easier" (especially if "far,
far" so) is that the price at which such a boat realistically will be
sell-able will not reflect any (much less: anything approaching full)
reimbursement to you of the conversion costs (and, as earlier noted,
maybe you don't care).


If the information I obtained from the charter company is correct, i.e.,
that such conversons can be made for around $1,500, and that customers
of the charter company don't want to rent a boat of this size having
tiller steering, then such a conversion would appear to be a logical and
cost-effective investment. If it can't, then obviously it would not be a
cost-effective investment. (If few sailors want to rent such a boat
without wheel steering, it seems reasonable to assume that few saiors
would want to purchase a boat of this size without wheel steering.
Also, most of those I have spoken to concerning the matter also tell me
that they would not want a boat of this size with tilelr steering.) I
certainly haven't conducted a scientific poll of potential purchasers in
this area (nor have you), so I'm making an estimate based on the
available inforamtion. - But I don't know that this conclusion is sound
or reasonable, which is why I posted the note asking for further
information, whether there are kits for this purpose, and whether others
have had experience in making such conversions.


why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get
answers to my immediate questions first, before
I go further? For example, what's involved in making
such a conversion; . . .


You already know: what is "involved" is buying or finding a donator of
used pedestal, wheel, cables, and related equipment

Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on
a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note.

(as, among others,
Edson will tell you and as you readily could have determined by
looking at the Edson catalog

Nope. The Edson catalog doesn't tell me what is involved in making a
conversion for a Cal 30, and I had no way of knowing what parts would be
necessary, what fiberglass work would be involved (for all I knew, they
would provide a SS support that would bolt to the deck with minimum
fiberglas mods) or what labor costs might be involved.

or by telephoning that company);

Which company are you talking about, Edson or Cal??? I would assume that
Cal would be the best source for such information, but it's my
understanding that they are no longer in business. If Edson, how should
I be expected to know that the publishers of the Edson catalog could or
would explain to me what was involved re parts and labor in a conversion
of a 1982 30-foot Cal? Your assumption that I could "readily" figure all
this out from reading the catalog or calling the catalog publishers is
absurd. Particularly since I made it plain that I didn't intend to do
the work myself.

then in
doing the installation/(re)glassing, etc. Further, if (as I presume
is so though you haven't actually said) you're referring to the Cal
9.2 [meter] model, the rudder design almost certainly isn't
susceptible to use of external cabling compared with the need to
install an internal under-deck wheel or rack/pinion; and so the labor
involved ought not be underestimated. Which is also why I suggested
that you verify the price you say had been indicated (but not actually
explicitly/bindingly quoted) to you.

This information is relevant to my inquiry, and it suggests to me that
the job would probably be
impractical relative to the Cal 30. Obviously, it's clear that I should
verify the price before proceeding with any purchase of such a boat. -
Obviously.


. . . does anyone have experience in such a project,
and what were their experience; and, are there any
kits that would simplify the job.


As I told you, Edson will give you a suggested packgage/kit price, and
others probably will do the same.

There's a difference between a "kit" of components necessary to do the
job and a list of parts. I don't see any mention
in your previous note of a "kit" of components necessary for such a
conversion, only
that Edson could provide a list of parts. I had asked whether a kit was
available from Cal or another supplier, since it had been suggested to
me that such kits were available, and that such a kit might simplify the
work and provide some economy relative to buying all the parts
individually.


In other words, if such a project is not practicable,
or if the costs are far more than the dollar
range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing
the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I
have already sailed on similar Cals several times.)


Apart from the actual net dollar cost for parts/labor, it would be
difficult to believe that (perhaps especially in such a popular
sailing area as Galveston) one could not more or less readily find a
comparable boat which will satisfy your "strong preference for wheel
steering" yet at a comparable price (but with the wheel rather than
tiller already installed/workable).

Yes, there are lots of boats for sale in this area. However, on
balance, this particular boat seems to be a good value relative to other
boats of similar size and construction. It has an extensive list of
equipment, new bottom and new through-hulls, engine in excellent
condition according to the owner, etc. Thus, the equipment list and the
reported condition of the particualar boat, when compared with
comparable boats in the area, seemed to suggest that it may be a viable
choice. However, if the tiller steering is a significant negative
factor and if it can't be modified at a reasonable cost, I probably
don't want to go further with it. Obviously, I would want to have the
boat surveyed to verify its condition.

Jim

Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on
a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note.

Jim, some of the people in this NG wll generally just try to give you a hard
time. The poster you are responding to has no info for you. The Cruising Board
already told you what you needed to know. Unless you're getting that Cal for
VERY cheap, don't get involved in the conversion. It won't be cheap and there
are bound to be headaches along the way. Find a boat with a wheel and be happy.
And you'll be happier still by not feeding the trolls (disguised as sailors) in
this NG.

Best of Luck,

Robert B

Bobsprit wrote:

Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on
a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note.

Jim, some of the people in this NG wll generally just try to give you a hard
time. The poster you are responding to has no info for you. The Cruising Board
already told you what you needed to know. Unless you're getting that Cal for
VERY cheap, don't get involved in the conversion. It won't be cheap and there
are bound to be headaches along the way. Find a boat with a wheel and be happy.
And you'll be happier still by not feeding the trolls (disguised as sailors) in
this NG.

Best of Luck,

Robert B

Thanks,
Jim

If you want a quote on parts, call West Marine "Edson Tech Hotline"
508-995-9711. You should look at the new West catalog, page 1080.

Frankly, I'd have to agree that doing a conversion like this isn't worth it
unless this is the boat of your dreams, if you can do it yourself cheaply.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert
Einstein



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Re. a proposed purchase for +/- $17,000 of a 1982 Cal. 30, on Thu, 26
Feb 2004, Jim Cate further wrote in pertinent part::


I thought I might get some helpful information
from sailers on the ng who had looked into this
already, so that I would have some knowledte
of what's involved and what price ranges to expect.
- That's why I posted the note in the first place.


And that's why I suggest that it would be desirable for you to verify
whether the +/- $1,500 cost to which you referred was realistic and
gave you the link to the Edson catalog (from which you readily would
have determined that a new purchase just of the equipment if from that
supplier would probably cost in that range quite apart from the labor
and related fiberglassing costs of installation and which would have
also led you to other materials to the effect that other
manufacturers' products are similarly priced).


Obviously, I would "verify" whether the +/- costs was realistic. But
your asserion that I would "readily have determined" what a new purchase
of the equipment from that supplier would probably cost, quite apart
form the labor and related fiberglassing, etc., is preposterous. There
is not listing of all necessary components in the Edson catalog, and
there is no inication that the parts described relaing to steering
conversions would or would not be needed or appropriate for the Cal 30.
The catalog may be helpful for someone who knows what parts are
necessary, but not to someone asking what's involved and what it may cost.


I have a strong preference for wheel steering.


So do I.

Yet I also recognize that many others prefer a tiller and (obviously)
that the boat to which you refer is designed for and presently
equipped with tiller steering.


* * * if I decided to sell the boat (or . . . died and
my wife had to sell the boat), it would be far, far, easier
to sell with a wheel steering system than with a tiller.


Maybe, you can predict the likely market in the Galveston Bay area if
(you don't say: when) you later decide to sell or you die; but, maybe,
you can't. But even if correct, this rejoinder begs the question
whether one reason such a sale will be "easier" (especially if "far,
far" so) is that the price at which such a boat realistically will be
sell-able will not reflect any (much less: anything approaching full)
reimbursement to you of the conversion costs (and, as earlier noted,
maybe you don't care).


If the information I obtained from the charter company is correct, i.e.,
that such conversons can be made for around $1,500, and that customers
of the charter company don't want to rent a boat of this size having
tiller steering, then such a conversion would appear to be a logical and
cost-effective investment. If it can't, then obviously it would not be a
cost-effective investment. (If few sailors want to rent such a boat
without wheel steering, it seems reasonable to assume that few saiors
would want to purchase a boat of this size without wheel steering.
Also, most of those I have spoken to concerning the matter also tell me
that they would not want a boat of this size with tilelr steering.) I
certainly haven't conducted a scientific poll of potential purchasers in
this area (nor have you), so I'm making an estimate based on the
available inforamtion. - But I don't know that this conclusion is sound
or reasonable, which is why I posted the note asking for further
information, whether there are kits for this purpose, and whether others
have had experience in making such conversions.


why shouldn't I make use of the internet and get
answers to my immediate questions first, before
I go further? For example, what's involved in making
such a conversion; . . .


You already know: what is "involved" is buying or finding a donator of
used pedestal, wheel, cables, and related equipment

Wrong again. I don't know what is "involved" for converting steering on
a 1982 Cal 30. - That's why I posted my note.

(as, among others,
Edson will tell you and as you readily could have determined by
looking at the Edson catalog

Nope. The Edson catalog doesn't tell me what is involved in making a
conversion for a Cal 30, and I had no way of knowing what parts would be
necessary, what fiberglass work would be involved (for all I knew, they
would provide a SS support that would bolt to the deck with minimum
fiberglas mods) or what labor costs might be involved.

or by telephoning that company);

Which company are you talking about, Edson or Cal??? I would assume that
Cal would be the best source for such information, but it's my
understanding that they are no longer in business. If Edson, how should
I be expected to know that the publishers of the Edson catalog could or
would explain to me what was involved re parts and labor in a conversion
of a 1982 30-foot Cal? Your assumption that I could "readily" figure all
this out from reading the catalog or calling the catalog publishers is
absurd. Particularly since I made it plain that I didn't intend to do
the work myself.

then in
doing the installation/(re)glassing, etc. Further, if (as I presume
is so though you haven't actually said) you're referring to the Cal
9.2 [meter] model, the rudder design almost certainly isn't
susceptible to use of external cabling compared with the need to
install an internal under-deck wheel or rack/pinion; and so the labor
involved ought not be underestimated. Which is also why I suggested
that you verify the price you say had been indicated (but not actually
explicitly/bindingly quoted) to you.

This information is relevant to my inquiry, and it suggests to me that
the job would probably be
impractical relative to the Cal 30. Obviously, it's clear that I should
verify the price before proceeding with any purchase of such a boat. -
Obviously.


. . . does anyone have experience in such a project,
and what were their experience; and, are there any
kits that would simplify the job.


As I told you, Edson will give you a suggested packgage/kit price, and
others probably will do the same.

There's a difference between a "kit" of components necessary to do the
job and a list of parts. I don't see any mention
in your previous note of a "kit" of components necessary for such a
conversion, only
that Edson could provide a list of parts. I had asked whether a kit was
available from Cal or another supplier, since it had been suggested to
me that such kits were available, and that such a kit might simplify the
work and provide some economy relative to buying all the parts
individually.


In other words, if such a project is not practicable,
or if the costs are far more than the dollar
range I mentioned, why waste my time in reviewing
the characteristics of the boat (particularly since I
have already sailed on similar Cals several times.)


Apart from the actual net dollar cost for parts/labor, it would be
difficult to believe that (perhaps especially in such a popular
sailing area as Galveston) one could not more or less readily find a
comparable boat which will satisfy your "strong preference for wheel
steering" yet at a comparable price (but with the wheel rather than
tiller already installed/workable).

Yes, there are lots of boats for sale in this area. However, on
balance, this particular boat seems to be a good value relative to other
boats of similar size and construction. It has an extensive list of
equipment, new bottom and new through-hulls, engine in excellent
condition according to the owner, etc. Thus, the equipment list and the
reported condition of the particualar boat, when compared with
comparable boats in the area, seemed to suggest that it may be a viable
choice. However, if the tiller steering is a significant negative
factor and if it can't be modified at a reasonable cost, I probably
don't want to go further with it. Obviously, I would want to have the
boat surveyed to verify its condition.

Jim