The boat project continues
 

Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

If you can afford it be generous. Your heart will feel better for longer
than it would just getting a few $$

Cheers

Michael wrote:

Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

What size/type sail goes on the RF?

Scotty

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

Glad to hear from you again.

Michael wrote:

Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome.

I guess staying home to do it yourself isn't an option....


We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches,

Sounds like sensible choices up to the last... I have heard good things about
Anderson winches but never used one myself, did not know they made bottom acting
ones. The only bottom action winches I have used are quite old fashioned and
only slightly better than nothing... although very decorative.


same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a new
boom plus a power vang.

Power? You mean hydraulic?


The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late.

Putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Where the lines are led shouldn't impact
the sail handling decision making, other than where the crew goes to carry out
the actions decided on.

One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch system.

That sounds expensive. Why not put the radar on the arch too? We are getting
some custom stainless work done on the tugboat, so far have not been handed a
bill but I know it is not going to be cheap. More to be done of course. The fun
never stops.



Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to learn
how to do boats.

That sounds kinda dumb, unless his work is not worth anything. The days of free
apprenticing are over. My company has to pay wages to mechanics helpers who
don't know a screwdriver from a monkey wrench, but hopefully they are learning
while they work.


I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

My advice would be don't "keep her just in case." In case of what?!? Sell if
anybody will give you a reasonable price, donate if not. If you're considering
giving it to the indentured apprentice, then work it out that he'll pay for it
one way or another, or the boat will come to a bad end. People do not value free
things. But it's a charitable thought to help somebody else get started.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The boat project continues
 

What's a bottom action winch? Can't find anything on google.

SV


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

That's wench, and it's Bill.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
What's a bottom action winch? Can't find anything on google.

SV


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted
complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What
do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens
over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

I had thought a big 140 to 160% but it turns out with my boat and my style
of sailing (single watchstander cruising) a 120 is better. The next one
back I had thought would be a 110% but it turned out a 80% was a better
choice. That one is hank on and is interchangeable with the storm jib. But
both are self deploying from the cockpit. The setup allows space to put the
radar up high which I preferred and by changing the baby stay and two aft
leaning shrouds to four side shrouds cleared space on the deck, allowed room
for the stays'l gear etc. I like to reef down each night no matter what and
religiously reef down plenty far in advance of any impending higher winds.
For that reason we left the main halyard winches on the mast including the
reefing gear. (Two deep slab reefs). This cleared up some space under the
dodger which was needed for the stays'l jib sheet winches, and the mains'l
controls. Outhaul and power vang being the most used. It also kept the
runing rigging lines of the cockpit hatch turtle which means room for
something else like solar panels. Each idea I presented was discussed at
length with riggers and sailmakers and then had me standing in the
conference room steering a tiller with my butt and reaching out and to the
sides for the various lines. Then we repaired to the boat and did the same.
They explained how they would modify and improve my ideas each step of the
way and had me act out using the various lines then measured where the
equipment would go, where I wouldstand and so forth. A real custom fitting.
Thenwe all went for espresso although some of the espresso was microbrew!

The one thing I didn't do was put steps up and down the mast. just two
about four feet below the top so once I haul up I can stand there while
doing whatever. Neat idea.

Anyway at some point I'llbe back from the next freighter run and there will
be photos of how it turns out. Phase One is officially begun!

M.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
What size/type sail goes on the RF?

Scotty

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted
complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What
do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens
over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or craftsman
and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend. And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

M.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear from you again.

Michael wrote:

Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome.

I guess staying home to do it yourself isn't an option....


We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches,

Sounds like sensible choices up to the last... I have heard good things
about
Anderson winches but never used one myself, did not know they made bottom
acting
ones. The only bottom action winches I have used are quite old fashioned
and
only slightly better than nothing... although very decorative.


same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang.

Power? You mean hydraulic?


The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late.

Putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Where the lines are led shouldn't
impact
the sail handling decision making, other than where the crew goes to carry
out
the actions decided on.

One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.

That sounds expensive. Why not put the radar on the arch too? We are
getting
some custom stainless work done on the tugboat, so far have not been
handed a
bill but I know it is not going to be cheap. More to be done of course.
The fun
never stops.



Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats.

That sounds kinda dumb, unless his work is not worth anything. The days of
free
apprenticing are over. My company has to pay wages to mechanics helpers
who
don't know a screwdriver from a monkey wrench, but hopefully they are
learning
while they work.


I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

My advice would be don't "keep her just in case." In case of what?!? Sell
if
anybody will give you a reasonable price, donate if not. If you're
considering
giving it to the indentured apprentice, then work it out that he'll pay
for it
one way or another, or the boat will come to a bad end. People do not
value free
things. But it's a charitable thought to help somebody else get started.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The boat project continues
 

Single straight handle that sticks out at the bottom. One or two speed
versions. Self tailing on the top.

Check www.woodenboat.org for pictures in the store section. Those are
Murrays. Anderson's similar but in stainless.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
What's a bottom action winch? Can't find anything on google.

SV


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted
complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What
do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens
over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

That's what I thought, but I wondered that you can't make full 360* turns.
,in other words you always have to ratchet it. Why do you want those? Just
for the aesthetics? Cool web site, BTW.

Scotty

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Single straight handle that sticks out at the bottom. One or two speed
versions. Self tailing on the top.

Check www.woodenboat.org for pictures in the store section. Those are
Murrays. Anderson's similar but in stainless.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
What's a bottom action winch? Can't find anything on google.

SV


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for
the
outcome. We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the
bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place
for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time),
some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches, same mast but refitted
complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and
a
new
boom plus a power vang. The baby stay and two lower shrouds will
become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering
is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is
handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to
ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late. One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.
My friends at the rigging shop are coordinating the whole plan to make
sure
it all works together. One year to go!

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern.
What
do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens
over
the next winter.

The boat project continues
 

Michael noted: The setup allows space to put the radar up high

You're sticking your radar on the mast? tsk tsk...there goes your =
balance....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

The boat project continues
 

Not at all. Might be true on a lighter weight hull but it had no effect on
Se Fjern at 26' and even less on Se Lange at 31'. As I've learned height
is everything. The radars placed low down or on short poles are useful for
harbor entrances and the like, not so useful on open ocean situations. In
this case I have 'weight below to spare. Windage increase would be even more
of an issue but even that is negligible. I added radar to begin with
because of conditions up here in the Pacific NW. Lots of fog during the
best of the summer sailing system is not uncommon. With the original 12"
radome I found life a lot easier. On the trans-Pac I set the guard system
and it would come on every 15 minutes, do 20 turns and alert me if some
target showed. Like an auto-tilller it's an extra crew member. Down low
it's in the troughs too much and tends to beep off on signals from the tops
of swells and waves. Reduce the seas state sensitivity and it degrades
performance in areas needed. By adding height you make it a useful tool.
With the original radar I refined the settings based on actual targets. The
new one is 18" array and works even better. What I would NOT do is put up a
three or four foot array on a smaller hull. That would upset balance and be
a windage issue. The only thing new this time is a swinging type radar
mount.

A neat thing about my present job is the ability to use radar constantly.
While I don't have the bells and whistles of the big 10cm and 3cm Sperry's I
am very comfortable with the use of radar. It's one of the most useful
support tools out there.

But as with GPS I still rely on the basics. The Mark I, Mod 1 Eyeball
System is to radar as good navigation is to the GPS.

M.



"katysails" wrote in message
...
Michael noted: The setup allows space to put the radar up high

You're sticking your radar on the mast? tsk tsk...there goes your
balance....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

The boat project continues... radar
 

Michael wrote:

Not at all. Might be true on a lighter weight hull but it had no effect on
Se Fjern at 26' and even less on Se Lange at 31'. As I've learned height
is everything. The radars placed low down or on short poles are useful for
harbor entrances and the like, not so useful on open ocean situations.

Well, how far do you need to see? Our little old (late 1980s vintage) Furuno
mounted 12' above the waterline can pick up a 30' sailboat or a low sandy
coastline at 16 miles. We had a good chance to get it dialed in (and you're
right, experience makes a BIG difference) on our last cruise up Pamlico to the
Chesapeake and back.


In
this case I have 'weight below to spare. Windage increase would be even more
of an issue but even that is negligible.

Windage plus the tendency of lines & sails to snag on the thing. I'd put it aft
especially if you are already putting on an arch.


I added radar to begin with
because of conditions up here in the Pacific NW. Lots of fog during the
best of the summer sailing system is not uncommon. With the original 12"
radome I found life a lot easier. On the trans-Pac I set the guard system
and it would come on every 15 minutes, do 20 turns and alert me if some
target showed. Like an auto-tilller it's an extra crew member. Down low
it's in the troughs too much and tends to beep off on signals from the tops
of swells and waves. Reduce the seas state sensitivity and it degrades
performance in areas needed.

Very true, but that's one aspect of performance that modern sets are much
better. Having a computer analyze the return signal can tell you all sorts of
things that can't be seen by the Mark 1 eyeball. I don't have very much
experience at all with the new fancy radar sets but at some point we are going
to upgrade.



By adding height you make it a useful tool.
With the original radar I refined the settings based on actual targets.

How high do you have to go to make it 'useful'? I think the latter point is mor
important, to have a reliable set that you have experience with real returns, so
that you know what the radar is showing you. Too many people think of it as
magic and only turn it on in foul weather.

One of the best ways to use it IMHO is around commercial shipping, it tells you
unequivocably what their speed & course are. I also believe in taking visual
bearings but it's nice to have the backup.



--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

The boat project continues
 

Michael wrote:

Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or craftsman

heh heh if I decided to quit work and take up boatbuilding, the IRS would shed a
river of tears! But all the same, I like to do my own work for a number of
reasons.... I know it's done right... I get more familiar with odd corners of
the boat and what's tucked into them... I'll stand a better chance of being able
to fix what I've installed or modified myself, plus the added familiarity with
the boat & equipment helps the chances of fixing anything else... the tools &
parts are more likely to be on board....

Good example of that last, during haulout I wanted to repack the stern gland but
was pressed for time... called a boatyard worker and made a deal with him to
pull out all the old packing (usually the time consuming part), and I would just
put in the new. He used some tools I did not have anyway, but the former owner
had hung a packing gland wrench next to the stern gland but this wrench did not
fit! If I had let the boatyard do the whole job I would not have found this out
until too late.



and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend.

That may be true, but in the cases where we bring in the professionals (such as
the current job which involves welding up a hi temp stainless exhaust system) I
work right alongside to learn as much as I can about their skills & tools. Most
of the time the really good pros are glad to teach.


And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

You should learn to shop around more. For example, the heating system I'm
installing plugs into the diesel fuel system... here's a chance to renew &
upgrade the boat's fuel system... including installing Racor parallel filters &
gauges... expensive but after some web searching and calling around I found one
at about half list price.

One of the biggest problems for capitalism is that the internet has introduced a
constant state of price war for all goods & services. But let's not get diverted
into politics...




Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

It's all good. I happen to think that a full batten main & solid vang are make
for very easy sail handling.

The things to learn from racing IMHO are boat handling & sailing skills, rig
improvements for sail handling, and in some cases weather prediction & routing.
Constantly adjusting fine tune of rig is not for cruising, and it's not what
makes racers go faster than cruisers, either. Racing is like a drill for many of
the things you'll do handling a boat when cruising. For example I know many
cruisers who are dubious about gybing and either approach it trepidation or
avoid it altogether. A racer just skips the worry and gybes over. But then many
things will be done with a bigger crew and other things will not be done at all.
It's all good, but then I am the old fashioned sort who thinks that any
knowledge or skill is a good thing for itself.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The boat project continues
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
snip

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

I would advise you to sell. Do so as soon as possible. You may then
decide to donate the proceeds to charity, if you want to.


Do **NOT** hold onto the old boat for sentimental reasons. However much you
love her at the moment, you will soon forget her once you sail your new
boat.

I was really sad when I put my previous boat on the market. I thought that
I would never get over the loss.

I guess that within 10 minutes of boarding the new boat, my feelings for
the old boat were totally demolished. It was a real shock!



Regards


Donal
--

The boat project continues
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Not at all. Might be true on a lighter weight hull but it had no effect
on
Se Fjern at 26' and even less on Se Lange at 31'


Have you told us what the make, and model your new boat is?

As you know, I have a particular fondness for the Centaur. It was the boat
that I did my first cross channel crossing in. I'll never forget the land
disappearing into the darkness, and the first experience of being surrounded
by water - as far as the eye could see.

The next morning, the skipper suggested a shot of rum. I assumed that the
old salt knew what he was talking about - so I ignored my instincts and
accepted his rum - I won't *ever* make that mistake again!! John, I know
that you are reading this. It's about time that you explained why you
thought that a Pussers rum would be good at 6 am!!!


Regards



Donal
--

The boat project continues
 

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:26:37 -0800, "Michael"
wrote:

Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to learn
how to do boats. I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

M.



Most of that will be ready for this summers sailing the rest happens over
the next winter.


I'd give Se Fjern to the lad. I'd check and see if he could afford to
keep her up first.

Mark E. Williams

The boat project continues
 

Much the same attitude on the benefits of the racing techniques. It fine
tunes one for the real sailing. As for shopping around? Why? My friends
who are running the project by at dealers prices. I've never been able to
come close to beating those numbers. They are expanding their business a
bit by doing not just rigging but overseeing complete makeovers and
upgrades. They get my boat to perfect that area of their business. But the
reason for not doing a lot of it myself? I'm just not that good at a lot of
those skills. Timber Trestle Bridges drift pinned together yes. Fine
cabinetry work . . .forget it. Mine end up looking like apile of sawdust.
I'll stick to what I do best.

On the other hand they are doing a complete set of digitals for each phase
and each separate project and including parts, spares, and tools lists.
I'll also get a comprehensive training session on everything.

Who knows, by the time all is done I might be able to kerf a straight line .
.. . . maybe!

Cheers

Michael


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or
craftsman

heh heh if I decided to quit work and take up boatbuilding, the IRS would
shed a
river of tears! But all the same, I like to do my own work for a number of
reasons.... I know it's done right... I get more familiar with odd corners
of
the boat and what's tucked into them... I'll stand a better chance of
being able
to fix what I've installed or modified myself, plus the added familiarity
with
the boat & equipment helps the chances of fixing anything else... the
tools &
parts are more likely to be on board....

Good example of that last, during haulout I wanted to repack the stern
gland but
was pressed for time... called a boatyard worker and made a deal with him
to
pull out all the old packing (usually the time consuming part), and I
would just
put in the new. He used some tools I did not have anyway, but the former
owner
had hung a packing gland wrench next to the stern gland but this wrench
did not
fit! If I had let the boatyard do the whole job I would not have found
this out
until too late.



and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend.

That may be true, but in the cases where we bring in the professionals
(such as
the current job which involves welding up a hi temp stainless exhaust
system) I
work right alongside to learn as much as I can about their skills & tools.
Most
of the time the really good pros are glad to teach.


And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line
that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will
run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

You should learn to shop around more. For example, the heating system I'm
installing plugs into the diesel fuel system... here's a chance to renew &
upgrade the boat's fuel system... including installing Racor parallel
filters &
gauges... expensive but after some web searching and calling around I
found one
at about half list price.

One of the biggest problems for capitalism is that the internet has
introduced a
constant state of price war for all goods & services. But let's not get
diverted
into politics...




Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With
the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full
batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on
making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

It's all good. I happen to think that a full batten main & solid vang are
make
for very easy sail handling.

The things to learn from racing IMHO are boat handling & sailing skills,
rig
improvements for sail handling, and in some cases weather prediction &
routing.
Constantly adjusting fine tune of rig is not for cruising, and it's not
what
makes racers go faster than cruisers, either. Racing is like a drill for
many of
the things you'll do handling a boat when cruising. For example I know
many
cruisers who are dubious about gybing and either approach it trepidation
or
avoid it altogether. A racer just skips the worry and gybes over. But then
many
things will be done with a bigger crew and other things will not be done
at all.
It's all good, but then I am the old fashioned sort who thinks that any
knowledge or skill is a good thing for itself.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The boat project continues
 

Se Fjern is a Centaur and has two and half plus circumnavs under her old
keel.

Se Lange is a Berwick.

I'm a huge fan of English twin keel boats.

There the best thing since HP Sauce!

M.



"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Not at all. Might be true on a lighter weight hull but it had no effect
on
Se Fjern at 26' and even less on Se Lange at 31'


Have you told us what the make, and model your new boat is?

As you know, I have a particular fondness for the Centaur. It was the
boat
that I did my first cross channel crossing in. I'll never forget the
land
disappearing into the darkness, and the first experience of being
surrounded
by water - as far as the eye could see.

The next morning, the skipper suggested a shot of rum. I assumed that
the
old salt knew what he was talking about - so I ignored my instincts and
accepted his rum - I won't *ever* make that mistake again!! John, I
know
that you are reading this. It's about time that you explained why you
thought that a Pussers rum would be good at 6 am!!!


Regards



Donal
--

The boat project continues... radar
 

The height will be determined by the riggers. It's still higher than the
arch system so I'm happy. With a new sailplan they are tweaking the system
so everything works in concert and that keeps the snagging problems out of
it. Otherwise what you say would be exactly right. I'm taking advantage of
a once in a lifetime situation. How high is high enough. Wait for the lats
and atts article. OK don't wait. At 120 feet off the water our huge 3cm
and 10cm sets have trouble picking up some targets until they are within 8
to 10 miles. These targets are fishing float reflectors, small wooden hull
native fishing boats and .. . sailboats. The further down the more 'ground
clutter' (waves, spray etc.) and the distance is less. Not a problem much
if the target is a huge cliff or a massive freighter but a definite problem
if the shoreline is flat and low or the ship is low and non reflective.

I thought hard about this for some time but finally told the rigging shop I
preferred mast mount but would go along with whatever fit the sail plan
design the best.

I ended up with the best of both worlds in what is always a compromise
situation.

Anyone want a used but workable Goldstar? It was mounted six foot off the
deck in the middle of the spinnaker track.

M.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

Not at all. Might be true on a lighter weight hull but it had no effect
on
Se Fjern at 26' and even less on Se Lange at 31'. As I've learned
height
is everything. The radars placed low down or on short poles are useful
for
harbor entrances and the like, not so useful on open ocean situations.

Well, how far do you need to see? Our little old (late 1980s vintage)
Furuno
mounted 12' above the waterline can pick up a 30' sailboat or a low sandy
coastline at 16 miles. We had a good chance to get it dialed in (and
you're
right, experience makes a BIG difference) on our last cruise up Pamlico to
the
Chesapeake and back.


In
this case I have 'weight below to spare. Windage increase would be even
more
of an issue but even that is negligible.

Windage plus the tendency of lines & sails to snag on the thing. I'd put
it aft
especially if you are already putting on an arch.


I added radar to begin with
because of conditions up here in the Pacific NW. Lots of fog during the
best of the summer sailing system is not uncommon. With the original
12"
radome I found life a lot easier. On the trans-Pac I set the guard
system
and it would come on every 15 minutes, do 20 turns and alert me if some
target showed. Like an auto-tilller it's an extra crew member. Down low
it's in the troughs too much and tends to beep off on signals from the
tops
of swells and waves. Reduce the seas state sensitivity and it degrades
performance in areas needed.

Very true, but that's one aspect of performance that modern sets are much
better. Having a computer analyze the return signal can tell you all sorts
of
things that can't be seen by the Mark 1 eyeball. I don't have very much
experience at all with the new fancy radar sets but at some point we are
going
to upgrade.



By adding height you make it a useful tool.
With the original radar I refined the settings based on actual targets.

How high do you have to go to make it 'useful'? I think the latter point
is mor
important, to have a reliable set that you have experience with real
returns, so
that you know what the radar is showing you. Too many people think of it
as
magic and only turn it on in foul weather.

One of the best ways to use it IMHO is around commercial shipping, it
tells you
unequivocably what their speed & course are. I also believe in taking
visual
bearings but it's nice to have the backup.



--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

The boat project continues
 

Se Fjern and Se Lange mean almost the same thing. It's Norwegian. Se is to
see or 'to look.' Fjern means far and lange means long or a far way or a
long way. The connotation going back to Old Norse is one who sees by going
a long distance. The difference in the two is in clarity. Fjern is more
indistinct, misty, unclear at a distance kind of looking. Lange is with
clarity. Kind of fitting if you think about the last year or two shouldn't
wonder.

I chose the names as translations of the first boats original name of Look
Far. Wanted to make it more personal without really changing the name of
the boat.

The reason for the twin keelers was a diametrically opposed need for a blue
water boat that could also negotiate shallow areas such as the Brittany
Canals. Before I was hot on full or 3/4 keels and pointy sterns.

But once I'd tired the twins (Hamble and Walton-On-Naze) I became a fan and
now that's what I sail.

Besides they are built like tanks! Damn shame Westerly didn't keep making
them instead of switching to mega bucks yachts.

M.




"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Se Fjern is a Centaur and has two and half plus circumnavs under her old
keel.

Se Lange is a Berwick.


Nice boat! Not for me .... but very nice!



So what does "Se Lange" mean?



Regards


Donal
--

The boat project continues... radar
 

Sure, I'll take it.

Scotty

"Michael" wrote ..


Anyone want a used but workable Goldstar?

The boat project continues
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Se Fjern is a Centaur and has two and half plus circumnavs under her old
keel.

Se Lange is a Berwick.


Nice boat! Not for me .... but very nice!



So what does "Se Lange" mean?



Regards


Donal
--

The boat project continues... radar
 

They will be taking it off the mast this week or next, Monitor/control unit
already disconnected. Other than a few years on it it's in fine shape. No
idea on shipping but I'll find out Monday.

M.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Sure, I'll take it.

Scotty

"Michael" wrote ..


Anyone want a used but workable Goldstar?

The boat project continues... radar
 

OK, I'll be in Boston Monday, be back Wed., I hope.
SV

"Michael" wrote in message
...
They will be taking it off the mast this week or next, Monitor/control
unit
already disconnected. Other than a few years on it it's in fine shape.
No
idea on shipping but I'll find out Monday.

M.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Sure, I'll take it.

Scotty

"Michael" wrote ..


Anyone want a used but workable Goldstar?