Let's see:

He said "there is no communist threat"

Nixon pulled the US out, the Communists won.

Thirty years later America is intact.

Seems that Americans did more damage to themselves than did the Commies.

It was very good of Kerry to point out JFK's blunder.

G. Bush

"Capt.American" wrote in message
om...
I think we all need to hear more how John F. Kerry hooked up with
Hanoi Jane Fonda when he came back to further his political career.
He liked Vietnam when his hero JFK started the war.

When Nixon was trying to end the JFK's war, Kerry was calling all
Vietnam Vets baby killers. He paraded a bunch of phonies in front of
Congress calling all American soldiers baby killers. They never
actually saw these babies killed but heard about it. Kerry is such a
liar.

He's still a boater and I might vote for him if he publicly apoligises
for acting like Hanoi Jane.

Mo

http://www.drudge.com/discuss/viewTopic.php/10981

Kerry is far more complex than the simple war hero he portrays himself
as.

He became a celebrated organizer for one of America's most extreme
appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He consorted
with the likes of "Hanoi" Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark, Lyndon
Johnson's radical former attorney general.

He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971.
Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard
Johnson's about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man
who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and
irrefutable.

Operation Dewey Canyon III began on April 18, 1971, when nearly 1,000
Vietnam veterans and people claiming to be veterans gathered on
Washington's Mall for what they called "a limited incursion into the
country of Congress."

The group staged mock firefights on the steps of the Capitol and
Supreme Court and defied U.S. Park Police after the Department of
Justice issued an injunction barring it from camping on the Mall.

Those evil American soldiers: Testifying before the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S.
soldiers had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from
portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off
limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages,
shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally
ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."

'We are not the best': In his testimony, Kerry claimed there was no
communist threat and said: "In 1970 at West Point Vice President Agnew
said 'some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best
men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of
those misfits abuse,' and this was used as a rallying point for our
effort in Vietnam. But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was
supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which
we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion, and hence the anger
of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a
distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of
this country .."

Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW
in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a
fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.

Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day
they hang on the wall of his office.

The book he doesn't want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to
the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, "he found it necessary to
suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book,
The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted
several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the
famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima," according to Vietnam
Veterans Against John Kerry.

"Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared
from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person
shown on its cover: 'These people spit on the flag, they burn the
flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their
noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything
it still stands for,'" the New American reported.

Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

Friendly with the enemy: Kerry's fondness for Vietnam's communist
dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues.

As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created
in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers
designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry
badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in
Vietnam.

"[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the
POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations
with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry," noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.

More extreme than Hillary and Kucinich: Among the White House
wannabes, long-shot Rep. Dennis Kucinich has the reputation of holding
the most left-wing congressional voting record. In fact, this "honor"
goes to Kerry.

According to American Conservative Union, Kerry has a lifetime rating
of 6 percent, compared to 13 for the demolished Rep. Dick Gephardt, 14
for Sen. John Edwards, 15 for Kucinich and 19 for Sen. Joe Lieberman.

Sens. Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle score 13 percent. Only the likes
of Sens. Teddy Kennedy and Barbara Boxer have more left-wing records
than Kerry. In contrast, Sen. John Breaux, one of the upper chamber's
few remaining moderate Democrats, has a 46.

Drive as I say, not as I do: Like Al Gore and other self-described
environmentalists, Kerry has a radical agenda that would devastate the
U.S. economy in favor of the likes of communist China, yet he enjoys
the gas-guzzling modern conveniences that greens denounce.

However, although Kerry spouts the party line on anti-U.S. ecopolicy,
he doesn't like to practice what he preaches. Kerry was humiliated in
April 2002 when photographed attending a rally against energy
independence and then heading back to his SUV, the symbol of all that
is evil to greens.

Bone to pick: Bush-hating conspiracy theorists find it alarming that
the president, like his father, was a member of the secretive Skull
and Bones society at Yale University. Another alum of this club: John
Kerry.

Waffling on Iraq: Kerry has the tough job of wooing Howard Dean's
anti-war Democrats despite his support of the war in Iraq. His
favorite tactic, claiming the president outfoxed him, doesn't hold up
to scrutiny.

On "Meet the Press" in late August, Tim Russert played a tape of Kerry
addressing the Senate in October 2002 with a hard-line speech
declaring Iraq "capable of quickly producing weaponizing" of
biological weapons that could be delivered against "the United States
itself."

Kerry insisted: "That is exactly the point I'm making. We were given
this information by our intelligence community."

However, as columnist Robert Novak noted, "as a senator, Kerry had
access to the National Intelligence Estimate that was skeptical of
Iraqi capability. Being tricky may no longer be as effective
politically as it once was."

Capt. American

"Capt.American" wrote
Why should we judge Kerry differently than Benedict Arnold?

Arnold later provided aid and comfort to America's enemy, Britian.

Whether Kerry did the same depends on who you think the enemy was. If you
believe it was the Vietnamese, or at least some Vietnamese, then he
certainly did so. If you instead believe that the real enemy was the little
group of politicians who conned us into a war that was killing 1000s of
Americans and untold numbers of Vietnamese then he is not. Which is true?

Having ousted the French, Ho didn't know what to do. Educated in the West he
knew that western democracies provided people far better lives than
communism, but the USSR had helped him fight the Frogs when we had not. We
had even turned a deaf ear to his pleas that we come and teach his people
how to govern themselves as we were doing in the Philippines. Ike had a
suggestion. TEMPORARILY split the country north and south, communist and
capitalist, and then let the people themselves decide in a unifying
election. Meantime Ike figured we pour $$$ into the south, as we did into
West Germany so that come elections capitalism would surely win. It might
have worked had Nixon followed Ike, but he did not. We instead had buddists
(the majority) burning themselves to protest Diem and Kennedy wasted so much
time before going to Dallas that CIA polls showed commies winning by a
landslide. Meanwhile, JFK's "whiz kids", the bunch that gave Ford the Edsel,
had positioned themselves to pretty much control LBJ and after the Cuban
fiasco the last thing the wanted was to loose another country to communism
on their watch. They *unilaterally* decided that they could make Ike's plan
work if they could delay reunification for a year or two. The Joint Cheifs,
men who'd fought WW2 and Korea, were aghast at the idea! You cannot win a
grunt on grunt war in Asia. The Frogs had just proven that. But the whizzers
had no intention of winning a war, they just wanted to prop up our puppet
government til it could "win the hearts and minds of the people" and when
experienced military officers doubted that'd work the replaced the with
yes-men.

Problem was with Korea still fresh in our minds neither LBJ nor congress nor
the American people were likely to buy their scheme either so they duped us.
With McNamara controlling the military as SecDef and Bunker the CIA in Nam,
they transferred SEAL-1 to Bunker and had them kidnap whole fishing
villages. Ho responded by having the USSR build him a PT boat base. Mc had
the Navy position ships to monitor it, then Bunker had his SEALs do a quick
hit and run on the base and, predictably, HO's PTs came out shooting and ran
smack into Turner Joy - and she promptly blew their asses off - and there
you have the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

That let these idiot "whiz kids" and their yes-men sent 1000s of American's
best and finest to die in Nam, micromanaging the war to make sure they never
held an objetive - never won the war despite winning every battle - because
they thot the Vietnamese wouldn't see us as invaders like the Frogs. Well it
didn't work! Vietnam today is about what it would have been had the
reunification election came off on schedule. The only difference is that
1000s of young Americans and untold numbers of Vietnamese got maimed and
killed over a few ivory-tower eggheads' attempt to keep their buddy from
being blamed for loosing another country.

Meanwhile, not all Americans were duped and, as battle after battle was won
then village after village and hill after hill given back to the "enemy"
ever more of us discovered the idiocy of their plan - especially when Vet's
who could not be dismissed as cowards came home telling the truth. One of
them was Kerry.

I do NOT support his candidacy, and will not vote for him, because he voted
against the advanced weapons programs, many initiated by Democrat Jimmy
Carter, that now allow us to deal with Saddam and the Taliban without
killing near as many Americans nor near as many non-combatants. He was,
after all, a buddy of Les Aspin who gave us Blackhawk Down. If he indeed
actually helped Ho kill Americans like Hanoi Jane then I despise him even
more. But let's call a spade a spade. JFK's whiz kids were the bad guys
sending Americans to kill and be killed by Vietnamese and if Kerry saw that
early on then he was ahead of the rest of us.

What if Bush had had our military fight halfway to Bagdad then pause and
slug it out man to man with rifles, denying them adequate air cover, for the
next 5 years because he didn't want us to look like aggressors? What if some
of the survivors returned to protest that philosophy? Well, that's what
happened in Nam! The sad thing is that the hippys wrongly blamed the
military and the military wrongly blamed the hippies for loosing the war
while the real culprits went on to bigger and better things. Do you remember
"Sound as a Dollar"? Do you remember when the dollar collapsed? Gee, it was
soon after McNamara took over the World Bank!

"Capt.American" wrote
Why should we judge Kerry differently than Benedict Arnold?


Vito wrote:
Arnold later provided aid and comfort to America's enemy, Britian.

Arnold did much worse than that. He stole classified documents and provided the
to the enemy, and gave vital military information. That is much more serious
than "aid and comfort." Later he accepted a commission as a general officer from
an enemy nation and actively commanded British troops against Americans. By some
accounts, if Lord Howe had listened to Arnold's advice, he would not have
abandoned New York and Cornwallis would have never been trapped at Yorktown.
Play history onwards from there as you like.





Whether Kerry did the same depends on who you think the enemy was. If you
believe it was the Vietnamese, or at least some Vietnamese, then he
certainly did so.

Are you kidding? Dissent against a group of US politicians, by a US citizen,
isn't even a crime much less treason. Dissent is the right (and possibly the
duty) of every US citizen.

If anybody thinks that Kerry has committed treason then they should move to one
of the dictatorships, there are several to chose from. They should not attempt
to live in & understand a free country.

But then, to trump up Kerry as another Benedict Arnold is the same type of
action, for the same reasons, from the same people who spent 60 million of our
tax dollars trying to prosecute for a blow job.

DSK

Yes, lets.

"George Bush" wrote in message
news
Let's see:

He said "there is no communist threat"

Nixon pulled the US out, the Communists won.

Thirty years later America is intact.

Seems that Americans did more damage to themselves than did the Commies.

It was very good of Kerry to point out JFK's blunder.

G. Bush

DSK wrote in message ...
"Capt.American" wrote
Why should we judge Kerry differently than Benedict Arnold?


Are you kidding? Dissent against a group of US politicians, by a US citizen,
isn't even a crime much less treason. Dissent is the right (and possibly the
duty) of every US citizen.


Douglas,

I did not hear Kerry say anything bad about the politicians. He said
our troops were among other things Baby killers.

It may be true that some babies were killed but i doubt that was done
on purpose. Even Kerry admits to killing a baby, but not on purpose.

from the vietnam veterans against Kerry web-site:

While in command of Swift Boat 44, Kerry and crew operated without
prudence in a Free Fire Zone, carelessly firing at targets of
opportunity racking up a number of enemy kills and some civilians. His
body count included-- a woman, her baby, a 12 year-old boy, an elderly
man and several South Vietnamese soldiers.

"It is one of those terrible things, and I'll never forget, ever, the
sight of that child," Kerry later said about the dead baby. "But there
was nothing that anybody could have done about it. It was the only
instance of that happening."
Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy
in Vietnam put civilians at such high risk.


This never ending news from protester like kerry and Jane got back
to the VC and encourged them to fight harder, thus causing the loss of
more American lifes. The VC were very good at using our protester to
their advantage.


If anybody thinks that Kerry has committed treason then they should move to one of the dictatorships, there are several to chose from. They should not attempt to live in & understand a free country.

If anybody thinks that if anybody thinks Kerry is a traitor is wrong,
then they should move to a country that is good at sticking babies in
the line of fire. There are several to chose from.


But then, to trump up Kerry as another Benedict Arnold is the same type of
action, for the same reasons, from the same people who spent 60 million of our
tax dollars trying to prosecute for a blow job.

I thought they were prosecuting him for lying about it ie: I did not
have sex with that woman. Not for blowing his wad on Monicas face and
dress.


Capt. American



DSK

You're an idiot and a liar. Get lost.

"Capt.American" wrote in message
om...

bs deleted

DSK wrote in message ...

Are you kidding? Dissent against a group of US politicians, by a US citizen,
isn't even a crime much less treason. Dissent is the right (and possibly the
duty) of every US citizen.


Tell that to General Giap

from newsmax.com:

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that
finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group
led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping
him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it
weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the
War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News
Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going
to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these
guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean
Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert,
encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify
fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who
earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.


Blood Doug, not Dissent.

Capt. American.










If anybody thinks that Kerry has committed treason then they should move to one
of the dictatorships, there are several to chose from. They should not attempt
to live in & understand a free country.

But then, to trump up Kerry as another Benedict Arnold is the same type of
action, for the same reasons, from the same people who spent 60 million of our
tax dollars trying to prosecute for a blow job.

DSK

On 12 Feb 2004 14:09:41 -0800,
(Capt.American) wrote:

DSK wrote in message ...

Are you kidding? Dissent against a group of US politicians, by a US citizen,
isn't even a crime much less treason. Dissent is the right (and possibly the
duty) of every US citizen.


Tell that to General Giap

from newsmax.com:

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that
finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group
led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping
him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it
weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the
War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News
Channel war historian Oliver North.

Well, if a Fox News "Historian" said it, that is good enough for me
Gee, that wouldn't be the same Oliver North.....

Thanks for the laugh.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going
to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these
guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean
Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert,
encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify
fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who
earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.


Blood Doug, not Dissent.

Capt. American.










If anybody thinks that Kerry has committed treason then they should move to one
of the dictatorships, there are several to chose from. They should not attempt
to live in & understand a free country.

But then, to trump up Kerry as another Benedict Arnold is the same type of
action, for the same reasons, from the same people who spent 60 million of our
tax dollars trying to prosecute for a blow job.

DSK

"Capt.American" wrote in message
I did not hear Kerry say anything bad about the politicians. He said
our troops were among other things Baby killers.


I guess you weren't listening:
"We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the
leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are
McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric, and so many others. Where are they now that
we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who
have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of
war. The Army says they never leave their wounded.

"The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the
casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have
left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching begin them in the sun in this
country"



But then, Republicans never care too much for the truth.

Hey, Jeff...

You are wasting your time talking to "Captian American".
He starts off by calling Kerry a traitor and uses quotes from Oliver
North to support his position. Truly a world class PUTZ

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/oliver-north/




On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:24:53 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:


"Capt.American" wrote in message
I did not hear Kerry say anything bad about the politicians. He said
our troops were among other things Baby killers.


I guess you weren't listening:
"We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the
leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are
McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric, and so many others. Where are they now that
we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who
have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of
war. The Army says they never leave their wounded.

"The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the
casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have
left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching begin them in the sun in this
country"



But then, Republicans never care too much for the truth.