Nav wrote in message ...
This is part of an urban myth. See
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar.../aa110399a.htm

You really should try to separate fact from fiction before you repost
lies about living people. e.g:



Nav,

Check out snopes.com ~~~~~search Jane Fonda.

And BTW it none of your biz, go back and tend to your sheep!

Here is what you will find:


Claim: During a 1972 trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda propagandized
on behalf of the North Vietnamese government, declared that American
POWs were being treated humanely and condemned U.S. soldiers as "war
criminals" and later denounced them as liars for claiming they had
been tortured.

Status: True.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1999]


When I was at Camp Pendleton receiving combat corpsman training, I
noticed that the pickup truck belonging to the gunnery sergeant in
charge of our training was adorned with bumper stickers containing
extremely unflattering remarks about Jane Fonda. I also noticed a few
referred to Ms. Fonda and Vietnam, but at the time I honestly had no
idea why.
Being an E-5 and close to rank to our E-7 gunny, after a training
rotation one afternoon I decided to ask him about those stickers, and
what they had to do with Fonda.

He muttered a few obscenities and proceeded to tell me the story.
Fonda, he said, became a traitor during the Vietnam War -- a war in
which "gunny" had served two tours and for which he had received three
Purple Hearts (which is why he enjoyed training Navy corpsmen to be
Marine Corps combat corpsmen -- they'd saved his life a time or two).

The following excerpts are not "gunny's" words, but when received them
in an e-mail recently, it reminded me of his story. And, as ABC's
Barbara Walters prepares to honor the traitorous Jane Fonda during
Walters' "100 years of great women" program soon, I thought the
American people needed to hear this story again. You see, Fonda isn't
just exercise videos and the third wheel in "Nine to Five" (the
movie).


* * * * * * *
"There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Jane
Fonda's participation in what I believe to be blatant treason, is one
of them. Part of my conviction comes from exposure to those who
suffered her attentions.

"In 1978, the Commandant of the USAF Survival School, a colonel, was a
former POW in Ho Lo Prison -- the Hanoi Hilton. Dragged from a
stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he
was ordered to describe for a visiting American 'Peace Activist' the
'lenient and humane treatment' he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda,
was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell
forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, accidentally pulling the
man's shoe off -- which sent that officer berserk.

"In '78, the AF colonel still suffered from double vision --
permanently grounding him -- from the Vietnamese officer's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.

"From 1983-85, Col. Larry Carrigan was 347FW/DO (F-4Es). He'd spent 6
[product] years in the Hilton -- the first three of which he was
listed as MIA. His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His
group, too, got the cleaned/fed/clothed routine in preparation for a
'peace delegation' visit.

"They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world
that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper,
with his Social Security number on it, in the palm of his hand. When
paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking
each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like, 'Aren't
you sorry you bombed babies?' and, 'Are you grateful for the humane
treatment from your benevolent captors?'"

"Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of
paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the
line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of
the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge ... and handed him the
little pile of notes.

"Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost
number four.

"For years after their release, a group of determined former POWs,
including Col. Carrigan, tried to bring Ms. Fonda and others up on
charges of treason. I don't know that they used it, but the charge of
'Negligent Homicide due to Depraved Indifference' would also seem
appropriate. Her obvious 'granting of aid and comfort to the enemy'
alone should've been sufficient for the treason count. However, to
date, Jane Fonda has never been formally charged with anything and
continues to enjoy the privileged life of the rich and famous.

"I, personally, think that this is shame on us, the American
Citizenry.

"Part of our shortfall is ignorance: Most don't know such actions ever
took place.

"The only addition I might add to these sentiments is to remember the
satisfaction of relieving myself into the urinal at some air base or
another where 'zaps' of Hanoi Jane's face had been applied."

And there is this account:

"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was
captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968,
and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement,
one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a 'black box' in
Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered
a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot, South
Vietnam, whom I later buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

"At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lb. [my normal weight is
170 lb.). We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'"

"When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist
political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes,
for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs were
receiving, which was far different from the treatment purported by the
North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as 'humane and lenient.'
Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with
outstretched arms with a piece of steel re-bar placed on my hands, and
beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped.

"Jane Fonda had the audacity to say that the POWs were lying about our
torture and treatment. Now ABC is allowing Barbara Walters to honor
Jane Fonda in her feature "100 Years of Great Women." Shame on the
Disney Company.

"I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours
after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me
on TV. She did not answer me, her husband (at the time), Tom Hayden,
answered for her. She was mind controlled by her husband. This does
not exemplify someone who should be honored by '100 Years of Great
Women.'"

"After I was released, I was asked what I thought of Jane Fonda and
the anti-war movement. I said that I held Joan Baez's husband in very
high regard, for he thought the war was wrong, burned his draft card
and went to prison in protest. If the other anti-war protesters took
this same route, it would have brought our judicial system to a halt
and ended the war much earlier, and there wouldn't be as many on that
somber black granite wall called the Vietnam Memorial. This is
democracy. This is the American way.

"Jane Fonda, on the other hand, chose to be a traitor, and went to
Hanoi, wore their uniform, propagandized for the communists, and urged
American soldiers to desert. As we were being tortured, and some of
the POWs murdered, she called us liars. After her heroes -- the North
Vietnamese communists -- took over South Vietnam, they systematically
murdered 80,000 South Vietnamese political prisoners. May their souls
rest on her head forever."

In the words of Paul Harvey, America, "now you know the rest of the
story."

ABC and Babs Walters will undoubtedly include "Hanoi" Jane in their
televised celebration because their black souls are too hardened and
too imbued with an anti-American sentiment to do anything else. And
ultimately, they will all answer for what they have done in their
lives. In the meantime, I don't plan on watching anything that has
Jane Fonda's face anywhere near it. I won't buy her videos; I won't
rent or go see her movies. As far as I'm concerned, she's already dead
to me.

Whether or not you agreed with the war in Vietnam, whether you're a
Vietnam vet or a former member of the protest movement, or whether
you're too old or too young to have been there, the behavior of Jane
Fonda towards our own military men is reprehensible beyond belief. All
I ask is that you think about these accounts the next time you see
her. Let your conscience guide your actions from there.













# Claim: A POW spit at Fonda, for which he was brutally beaten.

# Status: FALSE.

This story is attributed in the email to former Air Force pilot Jerry
Driscoll, who says it's false and did not originate from him. I wasn't
able to speak with him directly, but Mike McGrath and Paul Galanti,
fellow officers of the Nam-POWs organization to which Driscoll belongs,
told me he unequivocally disavows the story.

[UPDATE: After this commentary was written I received personal
confirmation from Jerry Driscoll that the story is indeed bogus – as he
put it, "the product of a very vivid imagination."]


# Claim: Fonda betrayed POWs by turning over slips of paper they gave
her to their captors. POWs were beaten and died as a result.

# Status: FALSE.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry
Carrigan, whom I reached by phone at his home in Arizona. Carrigan, who
was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, says he has no idea why this
story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It
goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.

He said he did see Jane Fonda once while he was a POW – on film. The
occasion was a night when Carrigan and the other 80 or so men he was
interned with were called out into the prison courtyard – "the first
time we'd been outside under the stars in 5 or 6 years." As the men
stood there wondering what was in store for them, a movie projector
began whirring behind them. Their captors were showing them footage of
Fonda's 1972 visit to Hanoi.

Cheers

More bull****. More name calling. You have no interest in any kind of
dialog. You're only interested in *your* agenda. You're the one who
seem intent on spouting off about how liberals can't think straight and
when someone points something out you don't like, you go right into
your "message." Who cares what you think. You only thing you seem
to inject is a load of crap.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:23:26 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

In your opinion... so who gives a crap about your opinion. You're the one
who's been "shooting your mouth off" about rightwing politics on a
sailing-
related ng. Get over it, get past it. The VN war is over. People died on
both sides, some heroically, some tragically, most to no purpose. Blaming
HJ is just a cop out. Cars kill the same number of people every year that
died in the entire VN war. Guns in the US aren't far behind. The only
thing
you care about is defaming anyone who opposes you or your political
views.

Must be tough being one of Pavlov's dogs. You salivate away, and, lo,
there's no food in the bowl.

There's no political content in my messages to this thread. I've simply
taken you to task for your own boorish behavior toward another
participant.
If that's a problem for you, perhaps it's time to take Harry Truman's
advice
about hot kitchens.

As to other threads, I challenge you to find a single one in which I've
been
the first to inject political content. Problem is that someone makes a
comment that doesn't quite square with your left coast catechism and you
jump in like the Pavlovian pooch with a sermon from the Gospel according
to
Saint Fanken. Then some infidel resists the Inquisition and it's off to
the
races. It heats up a bit, and suddenly you cry foul for being off-topic.

If you really want to avoid political content in the newsgroup, the answer
is to cancel the sermon before it's delivered, and cry foul before you've
jumped into the boiling pot.

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Take your crap elsewhere. You're no captain, you're no American.
You're a nobody.

"Capt.American" wrote in message
m...
Nav wrote in message
...
This is part of an urban myth. See
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar.../aa110399a.htm

You really should try to separate fact from fiction before you repost
lies about living people. e.g:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...
More bull****.

Should I have said more bob****?

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...
More bull****.

"Capt.American" wrote in message
m...
Nav wrote in message
...
This is part of an urban myth. See
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar.../aa110399a.htm

You really should try to separate fact from fiction before you repost
lies about living people. e.g:



Nav,

Check out snopes.com ~~~~~search Jane Fonda.

And BTW it none of your biz, go back and tend to your sheep!

Here is what you will find:


Claim: During a 1972 trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda propagandized
on behalf of the North Vietnamese government, declared that American
POWs were being treated humanely and condemned U.S. soldiers as "war
criminals" and later denounced them as liars for claiming they had
been tortured.

Status: True.



I'm not going to get involved in the name calling in this thread. There is
a huge difference between the political leaders who orchestrate wars, --
and the soldiers who actually place their lives on the line for the rest of
us.

If Capt. American actually fought in Vietnam, then I take my hat off to him.
It really doesn't matter if the war was right or wrong. The soldiers who
fought in it believed that they were defending their country. They
displayed a degree courage that would shame most of us.

It is the politicians who must take the blame for the mistakes.

Don't blame the soldiers. You might need them one day!


Regards


Donal
--

The only thing this guy has fought is his flibitious.

"Donal" wrote in message
...
If Capt. American actually fought in Vietnam, then I take my hat off to
him.
It really doesn't matter if the war was right or wrong. The soldiers who
fought in it believed that they were defending their country. They
displayed a degree courage that would shame most of us.