In your opinion... so who gives a crap about your opinion. You're the one
who's been "shooting your mouth off" about rightwing politics on a sailing-
related ng. Get over it, get past it. The VN war is over. People died on
both sides, some heroically, some tragically, most to no purpose. Blaming
HJ is just a cop out. Cars kill the same number of people every year that
died in the entire VN war. Guns in the US aren't far behind. The only thing
you care about is defaming anyone who opposes you or your political views.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:40:43 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

You're pretty quick to attack Hanoi Jane, but you're not so quick to
attack
Karl
Rove and his cronies, for example, for trying to destroy people's lives
in
the here
and now. Grow up.

Best go back and read the posts again before you shoot off you mouth,
Jonathan. You're replying to your own fantastic imaginings of what I might
say, not to what I said.

I said nothing whatever about Hanoi Jane. Look it up. What I did say is
that
your "Get over it" post to "Spiker" demonstrated extreme callousness. I'll
go further--a depraved indifference--to an expression of human pain.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

So what. I submit you don't know all the facts either. It's easy
to rehash what HJ did or didn't do, her motivation, and the
results. How do you know, for example, that the beatings
were a direct result of the SSNs? You don't and you can't.
I stand by my comments.

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Jonathan,
You are obviously not a student of the period. You would know the
incident referred to is true (if the Hanoi press and our flyers are to
be believed). She had long been vocal, but the prisoners did not know
it as they were denied rights afforded the Geneva Conventions. So when
they were paraded in front of her and responded that they were well
treated and much regretted the actions of the country (this of course
had nothing to do with the man standing behind them with a cattle prod -
the prod is visible in one of Jane's publicity pictures). They had
secreted a slip of paper with the SSN of all the captives so the
families could be informed. It was passed to HJ during a handshake. It
was hoped she would take it back to the Red Cross or any other agency.
Instead - As soon as she was through with the photo-op, she handed the
slip to th lead guard. The beatings that followed were merciless.
You can forget what ever you want to.
Matt Colie

Well, well...Gayanzy is taking yet another beating!!!

Bwahahahahaha! Maybe his girlfriend, Porta Scotty will help him...?


RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Well, well...Gayanzy is taking yet another beating!!!

Bwahahahahaha! Maybe his girlfriend, Porta Scotty will help him...?


RB

I find this entire thread disturbing. It seems to me that it's a poorly
veiled attempt
to accuse Kerry of guilt by association, a favorite tactic of extremists.
For example,
I thought Nixon was a ****head, however, attacking him because he met with
Khrushchev or Mao, doesn't make him a communist sympathizer.

FYI, you don't need to go back to the VN war to find cases of prisoners
being
beaten for refusing to cooperate. There are plenty of examples in recent
times.
Rehashing murky memories and upchucking accusations 40 years later does
nothing useful.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:15:38 -0500, Matt Colie

said:

They had
secreted a slip of paper with the SSN of all the captives so the
families could be informed. It was passed to HJ during a handshake. It
was hoped she would take it back to the Red Cross or any other agency.
Instead - As soon as she was through with the photo-op, she handed the
slip to th lead guard.

Matt,

At least some sources suggest that this part of the story is untrue,
though
even these sources acknowledge that at least one story of a prisoner's
being
beaten for refusing to cooperate is true.



Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

I know a few guys who are still bitter towards the japs for Pearl Harbor. I
would never even think to tell them to 'get over it'.

SV


"Dave" wrote

I said nothing whatever about Hanoi Jane. Look it up. What I did say is
that
your "Get over it" post to "Spiker" demonstrated extreme callousness. I'll
go further--a depraved indifference--to an expression of human pain.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:14:49 -0800, Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Rehashing murky memories and upchucking accusations 40 years later does
nothing useful.

Better get used to it. This election is shaping up to be one very hard
fought, very dirty, campaign. It may be difficult to wade through the mud
both sides are starting to fling.

Well at their age perhaps they should. Most of those who did that are
DEAD and it was a military blunder due to diplomats not doing their job
properly. Bit like Bush actually.

Cheers

Scott Vernon wrote:

I know a few guys who are still bitter towards the japs for Pearl Harbor. I
would never even think to tell them to 'get over it'.

SV


"Dave" wrote

I said nothing whatever about Hanoi Jane. Look it up. What I did say is

that

your "Get over it" post to "Spiker" demonstrated extreme callousness. I'll
go further--a depraved indifference--to an expression of human pain.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

"Nav" wrote ...
Bit like Bush actually.

get over it.

Oh, I'm trying but he keeps reminding me.

Cheers

Scott Vernon wrote:

"Nav" wrote ...

Bit like Bush actually.


get over it.