"DSK" wrote in message
...
Donal, I was not meaning to ignore your question. Got a bit distracted,
s'all.

Donal wrote:

12 years ago, I sold an American made product for $8000. Today, I can
sell
you the same (Chinese made) thing for $30.00. I can also afford to give
you
a free "lifetime guarantee" because I have total confidence in the cheap
product.


I'm a little cynical about the whole "quality" issue.

I can see why, if the above is true. How do you account for this
tremendous
change in price?

There are a coulple of reasons.
1) Reduced chip count. i.e. advances in technology means that only a few
components are now required. These components do not cost a lot to make.
The product that I sold 12 years ago had hundreds of chips, and many
hundreds of discrete components. (discrete = non integrated, or single
function. eg resistor). Each manufacturer had to spend many months on R&D.
The volumes were relatively low. So, the finished product had high
manufacturing, and high R&D costs.

Nowadays, the chip manufacturers have 90% of the functionality on a single
chip. Furthermore, they publish the entire circuitry and PCB layout that is
required for a finished product. The manufacturer only needs to add a power
supply, and a casing. This means that a modern Chinese factory can get into
production within days of a chip manufacturer releasing a new chip.

The Chinese approach to pricing seems rather primitive. They appear to
take their manufacturing costs, and add 20% (maybe less). They depend on
volume sales. A typical American, or European, manufacturer would need
about 60% gross margin to stay in business.

2) Labour costs are low.





If these sails have a
high labour cost, then the Hong Kong version might be very good value.
Of
course, if the material represents the bulk of the cost, then Hong Kong
Sails couldn't produce a good sail economically. Perhaps you could ask
your
sailmaking friends what the labour percentage is, in a set of sails?

I'll ask, but I don't know if we'll get a meaningful answer. I don't think
that
materials represents over 50% of costs, but I'm sure it's quite
significant.

Ok. So you can see that if the HK labour +freight costs, are less than
the US labour cost, then the HK sails might represent better value for
money.


And
the labor is still very expensive, enough that with all else being equal,
Hong
Kong (or other cheap labor place) sails could be a good value. With modern
communication & transportation being what it is, you could have a local
sailmaker come on board your boat, measure the rig and design your sails,
and
have them made more cheaply in Hong Kong (and split the difference)... hey
wait
a minute, isn't that what some saimakers do?!?

Sounds like a very good idea - if the labour cost is a high percentage of
the total cost of a sail.




Regards


Donal
--

Donal,

The topic was Neal's sails;

Those HK sails have me worried, as well as Neal's faith in them. I hope
they stand up to usage?

I have my doubts. I also worry about Neal's evaluation of sails

I feel a certain amount of responsibility for the sails he got. I
replaced my Main sail and posted my screwup of getting a free footed
Main rather than a shelved main,as I had, because I didn't mention it.

I tried to tell him he didn't have a shelved main. I think it was also
Loco that tried to tell him. He had a full bolt rope footed main. ( I
guess his Main was so blown it looked like a shelf) He specified a
shelve and got it.

I was shocked when I saw the pictures of the Tack and the Clew, They
were made with only a single reinforcement tape and no extra stitching.
This isn't good enough!!! The sail he got, unlike his old sail with the
bolt rope, has only two point attachment on the foot of the sail. A
single tape without at least six rows of stitching is going to work
loose and fail. The shelve gives no support. The Tack & Clew on my North
main each have five reinforcing tapes.

He shopped around after asking the price I paid and was very proud of
the bargain he got. Not only did he beat my price on the Main he also
got a working jib.

I hope Neal's sail hold up but I Don't Think so! I'm pretty sure we'll
never know. I pray I'm wrong.

Anyhow, This was about quality and cost. I got a very good price on my
new Main plus an allowance on my old. I'm pretty sure my sail was fab'd
in the Pacific but by North and to North's Spec's. They saved on labor
but not to the point of North's reputation

Ole Thom

It would be interesting to hear from him, assuming that when he
gets back he was actually using them and not drunk in some
bar.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Donal,

The topic was Neal's sails;

Those HK sails have me worried, as well as Neal's faith in them. I hope
they stand up to usage?

I have my doubts. I also worry about Neal's evaluation of sails

I feel a certain amount of responsibility for the sails he got. I
replaced my Main sail and posted my screwup of getting a free footed
Main rather than a shelved main,as I had, because I didn't mention it.

I tried to tell him he didn't have a shelved main. I think it was also
Loco that tried to tell him. He had a full bolt rope footed main. ( I
guess his Main was so blown it looked like a shelf) He specified a
shelve and got it.

I was shocked when I saw the pictures of the Tack and the Clew, They
were made with only a single reinforcement tape and no extra stitching.
This isn't good enough!!! The sail he got, unlike his old sail with the
bolt rope, has only two point attachment on the foot of the sail. A
single tape without at least six rows of stitching is going to work
loose and fail. The shelve gives no support. The Tack & Clew on my North
main each have five reinforcing tapes.

He shopped around after asking the price I paid and was very proud of
the bargain he got. Not only did he beat my price on the Main he also
got a working jib.

I hope Neal's sail hold up but I Don't Think so! I'm pretty sure we'll
never know. I pray I'm wrong.

Anyhow, This was about quality and cost. I got a very good price on my
new Main plus an allowance on my old. I'm pretty sure my sail was fab'd
in the Pacific but by North and to North's Spec's. They saved on labor
but not to the point of North's reputation

Ole Thom