"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Joe wrote:
"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

If your starting position is known, one of those inertial gyroscope thingies
might work.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk

Joe wrote:

"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Joe you seem to be rather thick, you must take this post in the context of the
others that preceded it. If you do so you will be aware that there is in fact
"external" input; The examiner is going to tell you your starting position, compass
heading and any course changes, most likely you will also get the boat speed through
the water. You have to plot your course accounting for set, leeway (you are going to
have to know your boats characteristics for this based on angle of heel, something you
can sense in the cabin and therefore another input), drift...., you will have a watch and tide
tables.

To accomplish this with some accuracy is not that difficult, I'm not sure
why you seem to be so astounded by such an ability.

Cheers
Marty

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:


To accomplish this with some accuracy is not that difficult, I'm not sure
why you seem to be so astounded by such an ability.

I suspect that Joe has always relied on electronics.


Regards


Donal
--

Martin Baxter wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Joe you seem to be rather thick, you must take this post in the context of the
others that preceded it.

Yeh right show me this content.

If you do so you will be aware that there is in fact
"external" input;

Thats not what his post said thicker thick thickest, he said no imup
exterinal imput.

The examiner is going to tell you your starting position,

Yes external imput # 1


compass
heading

External imput #2


and any course changes,

External imput #3

most likely you will also get the boat speed through
the water.

EXTERNAL imput #4
You have to plot your course accounting for set,

Tide tables?

EXTERNAL #5

leeway (you are going to
have to know your boats characteristics

for this based on angle of heel, something you
can sense in the cabin and therefore another input),

Ill say that internal and OK with what the yachtmaster wannabe claims.
After all you can sence that in a pilot house with the windows blacked
as stated.

drift...., you will have a watch and tide
tables.

Yelp EXTERNAL IMPUT #5


To accomplish this with some accuracy is not that difficult, I'm not sure
why you seem to be so astounded by such an ability.


Damn..... With 5 external imputs that as easy as tieing your shoe. I
thought these yachtmasters knew something special and astonishing.

I other works Lanod was talking out his arse and did not have a clue
what he was saying. Is that what you are saying ?

Joe
MSV RedCloud


Cheers
Marty

Joe wrote:



I other works Lanod was talking out his arse and did not have a clue
what he was saying. Is that what you are saying ?



No Joe, that is not what I am saying, if you want to pick and choose
bits and pieces rather than the whole, then you will be able to find
cause for a fight.

"When you want to beat a dog, you can allways find a stick".

Cheers
Marty

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Martin Baxter wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:

"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Joe you seem to be rather thick, you must take this post in the context
of the
others that preceded it.

Yeh right show me this content.

If you do so you will be aware that there is in fact
"external" input;

Thats not what his post said thicker thick thickest, he said no imup
exterinal imput.

The examiner is going to tell you your starting position,

Yes external imput # 1

Poor, Joe! Poor, poor Joe.

As you are in a Yachtmaster exam, you will already know your position.

You certainly do not need to be told your position at the start of the blind
test, as at that point you were not navigating blindly.




compass
heading

External imput #2

Poor, Joe! Poor, poor Joe.

I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for you.

You do not ask the crew for the compass reading. As the navigator you
*tell* the crew what the compass heading should be.

It quite simple, isn't it? ... .... well, OK, you'll just have to take my
word. It *is* simple. Honestly.





and any course changes,

External imput #3

If I am navigator, then I direct the course changes.



....... go on Joe, you really want to mention "meeting" or "crossing"
situations, don't you?




most likely you will also get the boat speed through
the water.

EXTERNAL imput #4
You have to plot your course accounting for set,

A competent navigator will have used his tide tables before he sets out on
his trip. In fact, I mentioned this a couple of years ago. I always insist
that my wife and my sons do independent passage plans before a long passage
so that they will really *know* where we are if something happens to me.



Tide tables?

Yes! Navigators use them when their GPS sets break down.



EXTERNAL #5

leeway (you are going to
have to know your boats characteristics

for this based on angle of heel, something you
can sense in the cabin and therefore another input),

Ill say that internal and OK with what the yachtmaster wannabe claims.
After all you can sence that in a pilot house with the windows blacked
as stated.

drift...., you will have a watch and tide
tables.

Yelp EXTERNAL IMPUT #5


To accomplish this with some accuracy is not that difficult, I'm not
sure
why you seem to be so astounded by such an ability.


Damn..... With 5 external imputs that as easy as tieing your shoe. I
thought these yachtmasters knew something special and astonishing.

I other works Lanod was talking out his arse and did not have a clue
what he was saying. Is that what you are saying ?

Joe, by this stage you should be beginning to realise that I can make more
sense while talking out of my arse than you can by utilising all the
intellectual abilities that you have at your disposal. [good insult, huh?]


Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:

snipped a bunch of stuff which did little to give a simple answer to a
simple question

Joe, by this stage you should be beginning to realise that I can make more
sense while talking out of my arse than you can by utilising all the
intellectual abilities that you have at your disposal. [good insult, huh?]


Regards


Donal

In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat about the
bush as if you hold the secret to life.
The simple question posed was: What information, inputs, aids, were
available to the person taking this test?
Feel free to list them, numerically .... ya know ..... 1., 2., 3., etc.,
then everyone can decide how difficult or not, it is.
In the past, many people used many methods to do some highly accurate
"piloting", and many of these practices have been lost or never learned,
by most of the newer "navigators".
I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.
Simply stated, give Ole Joe some basic info to work with and maybe he'll
stop asking questions ..... or is this a troll ?

otn
--

otn said: In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat =
about the=20
bush as if you hold the secret to life.

Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

otnmbrd wrote:



In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat about the
bush as if you hold the secret to life.
The simple question posed was: What information, inputs, aids, were
available to the person taking this test?

The question was "How can this be done?".

I've tried to answer the question, but Joe doesn't want to believe me.
I've also tried to give "real life" examples.

As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all. You issue orders from
down below, and you predict your position from tide tables. etc.

Feel free to list them, numerically .... ya know ..... 1., 2., 3., etc.,
then everyone can decide how difficult or not, it is.





In the past, many people used many methods to do some highly accurate
"piloting", and many of these practices have been lost or never learned,
by most of the newer "navigators".


I'm only talking about standard stuff, currents, leeway, etc.

It is probably designed to show your real passage planning abilities, and
your likely performance in fog.

I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.

I've described the test several times.
You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.
You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't even
GPS.




Simply stated, give Ole Joe some basic info to work with and maybe he'll
stop asking questions ..... or is this a troll ?


Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under radar
alone is safe. He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance. Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!


Regards


Donal
--