What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

What can you do to improve weatherliness on an existing boat?

Back you your answer with an explanation.

Bart Senior

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

What can you do to improve weatherliness on an existing boat?

Back you your answer with an explanation.

Bart Senior

Define "weatherly" please

What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

Bart, I think more people here would take part in your sailing queries if you'd
frame them within a hypothetical sailing story. It;s more interesting than just
popping a Q&A.

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

Bart, I think more people here would take part in your sailing queries if
you'd
frame them within a hypothetical sailing story.

Bob, all your sailing stories are hypothetical - and they aren't very
interesting.



Regards


Donal
--

Bart,

James question should be answered. It was a good question. Define
WEATHERLY? That is very important to be clear on what is meant by
Weatherly.

Doug's answer explains a boats ability to go to "weather" Jeff
indicated VMG. They are only part of a good weatherly Boat.

In the last Am Cup Race, the KIWI"s had a boat that could go to wind at
a great angle. The POS needed full pumps and a man with a bucket to get
rid of the stern wave.

Any cruiser, worth his "Salt" would give away a little VMG for a dry
boat that will get up wind reasonable in a dry, comfortable fashion.
When beating into the wind for a couple of days, VMG isn't as important
as a dry boat that doesn't pound your teeth out. A boat that will trim
out at a decent heel (About 15 to 20 deg) that doesn't pull your arm out
of your shoulder socket with windward helm. A boat that will let you fry
an egg in the galley that is nearly round while climbing on the wind
near or on a 45 deg heading into the wind. Some of us Ole Timers would
call a boat that tacks thru 100 deg that has the other point a very,
very satisfactory "Weatherly Vessel"

A boat that can be trimmed with back stay tension, cunningham and maybe
barbar hauled sheet (If necessary) a weatherly rig. No jacks or sail
changes. That would be a Weatherly rig

A Hull shaped so that it wouldn't round up in a 25 Deg heel and carry a
neutral helm. A helm that would add enough reserved buoyancy in a heel
to keep the hull close to under the sail to maintain a heading

If it had all these characteristics and sailed like a witch would be
perfect!

Would you like to see the pictures of "Peunma" again?

Ole Thom

I think the most import issue regarding having
a weatherly boat is the ability to claw off a
lee shore--that is survivability.

So you brought up a very good point Thom! Points
to you. If you are freezing cold, wet, seasick,
and hungry, the upwind performance of the boat
will not matter much.

Bart Senior

(Thom Stewart) wrote

Bart,

James question should be answered. It was a good question. Define
WEATHERLY? That is very important to be clear on what is meant by
Weatherly.

Doug's answer explains a boats ability to go to "weather" Jeff
indicated VMG. They are only part of a good weatherly Boat.

In the last Am Cup Race, the KIWI"s had a boat that could go to wind at
a great angle. The POS needed full pumps and a man with a bucket to get
rid of the stern wave.

Any cruiser, worth his "Salt" would give away a little VMG for a dry
boat that will get up wind reasonable in a dry, comfortable fashion.
When beating into the wind for a couple of days, VMG isn't as important
as a dry boat that doesn't pound your teeth out. A boat that will trim
out at a decent heel (About 15 to 20 deg) that doesn't pull your arm out
of your shoulder socket with windward helm. A boat that will let you fry
an egg in the galley that is nearly round while climbing on the wind
near or on a 45 deg heading into the wind. Some of us Ole Timers would
call a boat that tacks thru 100 deg that has the other point a very,
very satisfactory "Weatherly Vessel"

A boat that can be trimmed with back stay tension, cunningham and maybe
barbar hauled sheet (If necessary) a weatherly rig. No jacks or sail
changes. That would be a Weatherly rig

A Hull shaped so that it wouldn't round up in a 25 Deg heel and carry a
neutral helm. A helm that would add enough reserved buoyancy in a heel
to keep the hull close to under the sail to maintain a heading

If it had all these characteristics and sailed like a witch would be
perfect!

Would you like to see the pictures of "Peunma" again?

Ole Thom

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I think the most import issue regarding having
a weatherly boat is the ability to claw off a
lee shore--that is survivability.

So you brought up a very good point Thom! Points
to you. If you are freezing cold, wet, seasick,
and hungry, the upwind performance of the boat
will not matter much.


I've been wondering about the definition of "weatherly" since this question
was posed [ one point Bart].


A couple of years ago, I was on a friend's 42' Bavaria. It was February,
and we were beating into an F5 under sail and 50 hp engine. I was very
aware of the fact that we were slamming much less than Setanta would have
been, under the same circumstances. The main difference was the extra
waterline length. The extra weight was also noticable.


So, to answer your original question, I would say that waterline length is
the most important factor.



Regards


Donal
--

That's an easy question:

http://www.americascupcharters.com/2us17.htm


"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

What can you do to improve weatherliness on an existing boat?

Back you your answer with an explanation.

Bart Senior

"Jeff Morris" wrote

http://www.americascupcharters.com/2us17.htm

These are some of the most beautiful boats sailing.
I used to watch these yachts "pretend to race" every
day when I worked in Newport.

I have a general policy of not paying for "rides"
otherwise I'd try one of these. Still I highly
recommend them. It's a great idea for a date.

N1EE wrote:

What makes a boat weatherly?

What is the best keel type, hull form, and rig type?

What can you do to improve weatherliness on an existing boat?

Back you your answer with an explanation.

IMHO the first step is to explain what is commonly meant by
'weatherly' other than the 12-Meter America's Cup defender. Usually it
refers to a sailing vessel's ability to make good speed to windward,
ie maintaining above average (or at least, better than the vessel
being compared) VMG. In some senses, it can be taken to mean being
able to make good to windward under adverse conditons.

What makes a boat 'weatherly?' Firstly, an effective rig... most
importantly one that can be shaped and sheeted inboard for maintaining
drive at an angle close to the wind. Secondly, an effective underwater
shape or foil, which will allow the boat to go forward easily but
resist leeway. Third, the boat must generate enough righting moment to
keep the rig & underwater foil at efficient angles instead of just
laying over.

In different conditions, effectiveness of rigs and especially hull
shapes & underwater foils vary greatly. In moderate air and smooth
water, a very high aspect rig and keels like glider wings work
amazingly well. If the chop increases and flow in both air and water
gets turbulent, they loose their efficiency and lower aspect rigs, and
keels that are stubbier & swept back are the best.

Another point to keep in mind is that relative areas of rig &
underwater foil make a big difference.

To improve the weatherliness of any boat, start first with the rig.
The mast should be straight & vertically centered... you'd be amazed
at how many sailors, even racers, are breezing around with crooked
and/or slanted masts. Next, the condtion of the sails and the sheeting
arrangements should be looked at... some are OK, some need
improvement. One big improvement that can be made in many production
boats is to put on a proper jib/genoa sheet track to bring the sheet
lead inboard. Sheeting to the toerail ain't gonna get it (in most
boats). Then pay attention to the underwater surface, if the keel &
rudder foil sections are bunged up then that can be worked on. In some
cases, a keel redesign (like Ol' Thom did) can help dramatically, but
most of the time the designer knew what he was doing and unless you
are making changes in the rig, you won't benefit from changing the
keel IMHO.

Lastly, buy spiffy new racing sails and get the sailmaker to come for
a trial sail with you. Watch him carefully and take notes on
everything he does & says.

Sometimes, the biggest improvement in weatherliness can be made by
changing skippers!

Now, what was the question again?

Fresh BReezes- Doug King