Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:50:59 +1100, Peter Wiley
wrote:
I just used my account with BOC to rent industrial cylinders of
LPG instead. Always a way.

Yep, you can get around the rules.
In a normal situation the gas supplier will not fill or exchange on
site cylinders without seeing the compliance plate.
Hell they're so pedantic that you can show them the paperwork but if
there's no plate attached, and legible, they go away.

Please tell me that I haven't understood what both of you have written.

Do you need to show some sort of certificate just to buy a cylinder of gas
for your boat?



Regards


Donal
--

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:14:22 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:15:15 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:
Token gay?

Definitely not. You have my personal guarantee on that!

And you know this how?

How predictable? Don't you agree?

Well actually I was gonna ask if you'd put the hard word on him
but I thought that indelicate

"Hard word" doesn't translate into English, I'm afraid. What does it mean?


Regards


Donal
--

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:06:58 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Well actually I was gonna ask if you'd put the hard word on him
but I thought that indelicate

"Hard word" doesn't translate into English, I'm afraid. What does it
mean?

How can I put this delicately.....You didn't ask him for a bit?.....


I don't think so.

Thankfully, he isn't Australian, so there wasn't any unfortunate
misunderstanding!!

Regards


Donal
--

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
[snip]

Did Bill Tilman have a seaworthy boat? Would it have passed your NZ
compliance rules?


It sure *looked* like a good seaworthy boat. Don't forget the safety
inspection includes the abilities of the skipper.

Hmmm, that's basically an avoidance answer. Would Tilman's boat have
passed the NZ compliance rules or not? It's a really simple question.

Peter Wiley

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:50:59 +1100, Peter Wiley
wrote:

Seaworthiness as defined by the NZ govt inspectors..... ? Heh. Matter
of ticking the right boxes, as you've pointed out WRT a perfectly safe
LPG install that they wouldn't pass.

BTW I did my own LPG instaln on my NSW country place. I'm a certified
welder in oxy, stick, MIG & TIG and my FIL is all the above plus
refrigeration. Hasn't leaked in 15 years but it still doesn't meet code
because neither of us had the magic bit of paper. Fortunately I didn't
care, I just used my account with BOC to rent industrial cylinders of
LPG instead. Always a way.

Yep, you can get around the rules.
In a normal situation the gas supplier will not fill or exchange on
site cylinders without seeing the compliance plate.

Which is why I just used my industrial gas account. All BOC care about
is whether you pay the bill or not and lots of people do oxy-LPG
cutting.

Hell they're so pedantic that you can show them the paperwork but if
there's no plate attached, and legible, they go away.

I had my LPG pipework done by a licensed gasfitter here in Tas (guy was
an ex-AAD expeditioner). He told me not to bother renting bottles if
all I was running was a stove (which I am). Just go buy 2 9kg LPG
cylinders and use them. No bottle rental, no hassles, plenty of running
time.

Worked for me, so I have a legal installation but don't bother with the
paperwork anyway. As you say, always a way....

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Since it's not available for my inspection how can I say?

Cheers MC

Peter Wiley wrote:

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

[snip]


Did Bill Tilman have a seaworthy boat? Would it have passed your NZ
compliance rules?


It sure *looked* like a good seaworthy boat. Don't forget the safety
inspection includes the abilities of the skipper.


Hmmm, that's basically an avoidance answer. Would Tilman's boat have
passed the NZ compliance rules or not? It's a really simple question.

Peter Wiley

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:02:33 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:50:59 +1100, Peter Wiley
wrote:
I just used my account with BOC to rent industrial cylinders of
LPG instead. Always a way.

Yep, you can get around the rules.
In a normal situation the gas supplier will not fill or exchange on
site cylinders without seeing the compliance plate.
Hell they're so pedantic that you can show them the paperwork but if
there's no plate attached, and legible, they go away.

Please tell me that I haven't understood what both of you have written.

Do you need to show some sort of certificate just to buy a cylinder of gas
for your boat?


No!
for a boat you need a cylinder that has been tested and stamped no
less than 10 years ago. After that it need to be retested or replaced.
It MUST be galvanised for marine use so it's economical to retest and
have a new valve fitted.
In a fixed/home/commercial installation, a compliance plate needs to
be fixed near the cylinder before it will be installed/replaced or
refilled.


Right. Basically cylinders fall into 2 categories. 9kg & less, you can
own and get filled anywhere without paperwork, as Oz says, long as
they're in test. The big cylinders - 45kg - are used for
domestic/industrial supply of LPG and if they're for a fixed
installation (house for example) the pipework has to be done by a
licensed gasfitter and it's illegal for the supplier to rent bottles to
you if you don't have the paperwork/compliance plate. It's also illegal
to do your own gas pipework for reticulated town gas, BTW, and for good
reason - lotta idiots and the people they kill will probably not
include themselves, unfortunately.

My situation, I have an account with an industrial gas supplier for
oxygen, acetylene, argon, carbon dioxide etc for welding/cutting. Easy
to add LPG to the list of bottles I rent. IIRC the price was actually a
bit less than the domestic supplier as well.

PDW

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

My vessel is Bayworthy.


--
Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Beats "Alien" which is only dockworthy.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
My vessel is Bayworthy.


--
Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

You could offer an informed opinion. We all know you're not shy of
doing so on any other concievable subject. Or you could post the list
of 'must have' equipment/features that your Govt requires for allowing
you guys to sail offshore (or a link to them, I've lost the original
post) and we can judge for ourselves.

PDW

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

Since it's not available for my inspection how can I say?

Cheers MC

Peter Wiley wrote:

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

[snip]


Did Bill Tilman have a seaworthy boat? Would it have passed your NZ
compliance rules?


It sure *looked* like a good seaworthy boat. Don't forget the safety
inspection includes the abilities of the skipper.


Hmmm, that's basically an avoidance answer. Would Tilman's boat have
passed the NZ compliance rules or not? It's a really simple question.

Peter Wiley

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Beats "Alien" which is only dockworthy.


Hey, Look!!! The Coronado owner is helping the Siedleman owner!! Aint that
cute...awwwww!


RB

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Real sailors help each other out. You're NOT in the club.

SV

"****Head" wrote ...
Beats "Alien" which is only dockworthy.


Hey, Look!!! The Coronado owner is helping the Siedleman owner!! Aint that
cute...awwwww!


RB

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

Real sailors help each other out. You're NOT in the club.


You're right! Members in your club drive Yugo's and Kia's as well!

Hoooh ahhhh!

RB

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:02:33 -0000, "Donal"

Right. Basically cylinders fall into 2 categories. 9kg & less, you can
own and get filled anywhere without paperwork, as Oz says, long as
they're in test.

I think that you have both cleared up my confusion.

Here, we take an empty gas cylinder to the shop and exchange it for a full
one. So the legal responsibilities for the cylinder lie with the gas
supplier. Every time that we get a refill, we actually get a different
cylinder.

I assume that you keep the same cylinder through it's life???



The big cylinders - 45kg - are used for
domestic/industrial supply of LPG and if they're for a fixed
installation (house for example) the pipework has to be done by a
licensed gasfitter and it's illegal for the supplier to rent bottles to
you if you don't have the paperwork/compliance plate.

Here, you could do your own pipework. It is now illegal for a non-approved
person to carry out installations for money.



It's also illegal
to do your own gas pipework for reticulated town gas, BTW, and for good
reason - lotta idiots and the people they kill will probably not
include themselves, unfortunately.

If you did your *own* pipework, then any resulting fatalaties would probably
only include you, or your immediate family. This would have nothing to do
with the government(IMHO).


Regards

Donal
--

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:02:33 -0000, "Donal"

Right. Basically cylinders fall into 2 categories. 9kg & less, you can
own and get filled anywhere without paperwork, as Oz says, long as
they're in test.

I think that you have both cleared up my confusion.

Here, we take an empty gas cylinder to the shop and exchange it for a full
one. So the legal responsibilities for the cylinder lie with the gas
supplier. Every time that we get a refill, we actually get a different
cylinder.

I assume that you keep the same cylinder through it's life???

Yes. Recently a cylinder exchange system has started up where you can
do as apparently you do, but it's a recent innovation.

[snip]

It's also illegal
to do your own gas pipework for reticulated town gas, BTW, and for good
reason - lotta idiots and the people they kill will probably not
include themselves, unfortunately.

If you did your *own* pipework, then any resulting fatalaties would probably
only include you, or your immediate family. This would have nothing to do
with the government(IMHO).

You assume the place is never sold or that any faults manifest
themselves during the original ownership. Not necessarily the case
unfortunately. It's possible - stupid, but possible - to use lead based
solder (yorkshire fittings) to make your own gas pipework. This solder
can degrade over time, or crystallise. A gas leak may occur years
later.

If a problem only affected the person who did it or their immediate
family, I wouldn't have any real probs with the outcomes. Stupidity and
carelessness have always been punishable until recently. Now it seems
these traits are rewarded.

PDW

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donals
Dilemma
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:02:33 -0000, "Donal"

Right. Basically cylinders fall into 2 categories. 9kg & less, you can
own and get filled anywhere without paperwork, as Oz says, long as
they're in test.

I think that you have both cleared up my confusion.

Here, we take an empty gas cylinder to the shop and exchange it for a
full
one. So the legal responsibilities for the cylinder lie with the gas
supplier. Every time that we get a refill, we actually get a different
cylinder.

I assume that you keep the same cylinder through it's life???

Yes. Recently a cylinder exchange system has started up where you can
do as apparently you do, but it's a recent innovation.

[snip]

It's also illegal
to do your own gas pipework for reticulated town gas, BTW, and for
good
reason - lotta idiots and the people they kill will probably not
include themselves, unfortunately.

If you did your *own* pipework, then any resulting fatalaties would
probably
only include you, or your immediate family. This would have nothing to
do
with the government(IMHO).

You assume the place is never sold or that any faults manifest
themselves during the original ownership.

No! I assume that the problem is not big enough to warrant government
intervention.



Not necessarily the case
unfortunately. It's possible - stupid, but possible - to use lead based
solder (yorkshire fittings) to make your own gas pipework. This solder
can degrade over time, or crystallise. A gas leak may occur years
later.

How often does this occur? Is the degree of risk really worth the cost?

When I bought the house that I currently live in, I had it surveyed. I now
assume the risk. I suspect that the government could save more lives by
spending *our* money on hospitals, instead of paying ill-educated inspectors
to ensure that we do not blow ourselves up with dodgy gas fittings.


Regards



Donal
--

Is your vessel seaworthy?
 

In article , Donal
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Donal
[snip]

You assume the place is never sold or that any faults manifest
themselves during the original ownership.

No! I assume that the problem is not big enough to warrant government
intervention.



Not necessarily the case
unfortunately. It's possible - stupid, but possible - to use lead based
solder (yorkshire fittings) to make your own gas pipework. This solder
can degrade over time, or crystallise. A gas leak may occur years
later.

How often does this occur? Is the degree of risk really worth the cost?

When I bought the house that I currently live in, I had it surveyed. I now
assume the risk. I suspect that the government could save more lives by
spending *our* money on hospitals, instead of paying ill-educated inspectors
to ensure that we do not blow ourselves up with dodgy gas fittings.

Heh. Most people have houses surveyed for structural defects. When was
the last time a surveyor did a pressure test on gas lines? I'd venture
to say never, here. The pipework is assumed to be OK. Brave assumption
even if a professional did do it, IME.

Personally though, I'm in agreement with you. I'm building a house
right now and I *may* end up arguing with an inspector because my
lintels aren't *exactly* to code. Never mind that they're twice as
thick as they need to be, according to the framing code, and I'm the
one who will wear it if something goes wrong. Far as I'm concerned they
should mind their own business. The paperwork takes far too much time.

PDW