Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather. Length
up to discussion.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather. Length
up to discussion.

What price range? I like the current crop of Seawards.

http://www.seawardyachts.com/

RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Given your rather un-defined parameters, I'd say probably a Seaward Fox with
the
sloop rig.


What do you think of the Eagle, Bill? I was aboard one and was quite impressed.
You need a permit to pull it.

RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Undefined to stimulate discussion. How about a Huchins Compac 16?
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:48:42 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not
necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather.
Length
up to discussion.


Given your rather un-defined parameters, I'd say probably a Seaward Fox
with the
sloop rig. It's trailerable, yet carries a 450 pound lead keel. It has a
lot of
room for an under 20 foot sailboat, and it can handle pretty dramatic
conditions
without making them more dramatic. It's not the fastest boat, but it sails
quite
well in a wide range of conditions, and for entry level, it provides a
very
stable, easy to manage experience. They are well made, forgiving little
boats.

BB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

West Wight Potter 14.

Ocean going, seaworthy. It's been where Bobsprit will never go.

"The Carrolls" wrote in message
...
Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not
necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather.
Length
up to discussion.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Well built, capable, simple and very reasonably priced used with an
operating manufacturer for support.
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:20:42 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

Undefined to stimulate discussion. How about a Huchins Compac 16?

No personal experience. Please tell me about it.

BB

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:48:42 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not
necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather.
Length
up to discussion.


Given your rather un-defined parameters, I'd say probably a Seaward Fox
with the
sloop rig. It's trailerable, yet carries a 450 pound lead keel. It has
a
lot of
room for an under 20 foot sailboat, and it can handle pretty dramatic
conditions
without making them more dramatic. It's not the fastest boat, but it
sails
quite
well in a wide range of conditions, and for entry level, it provides a
very
stable, easy to manage experience. They are well made, forgiving little
boats.

BB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Bolger Micro.

--
Flying Tadpole
----------------------------------
The Light Schooner Website
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/index.htm
SquareBoats! http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm
Bolger Boats netted! http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Charm skool?



At least I went to GRADE school! Scotty...what a dumb ape!!!
"Skool?"

Bwahahahahahaha! Remember when Scotty had some wit?


RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Charm skool?

"Poppa Pimple" wrote ...
West Wight Potter 14.

Ocean going, seaworthy. It's been where Bobsprit will never go.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The Carrolls wrote:

Undefined to stimulate discussion. How about a Huchins Compac 16?

I like the their Sun Cat better.

The biggest problems with the ComPac 16 is that it's harder to ramp launch than
it should be, the cabin is absolutely tiny inside, and they are so slow they hit
the same wave three times.

But they are very salty looking little boats, inexpesnive to own, and I know
some people who have done a good bit of serious cruising in them. They don't
have the reserve bouyancy to carry enough stores for passagemaking, but for
coastal cruising they are very capable. Plus they are lots of fun for daysailing
(as long as the other boats dont' cruelly sail circles around you laughing).

I like Tadpole's pick, the Bolger Micro. Unorthodox but very practical &
seaworthy.
http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/

How small does a Pocket Cruiser have to be? If I weren't so humble I'd submit
that our Hunter 19 is one of the best.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...83124161YlrYLT

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

He asked for the best not the simplest.

Cheers MC


FLying Tadpole wrote:


Bolger Micro.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

C'mon Doug!

A bolger micro is not a "sea worthy" craft. It is fine for pottering
about on fine days or on ishore waters. In my opinion it would be lethal
in a gale in unprotected water having a very low angle of vanishing
stability. If you want a salty boat look for something along the lines
of a Cornish crabber or Tamarisk (if you can find/build the latter you
will have a gem).

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The Carrolls wrote:


Undefined to stimulate discussion. How about a Huchins Compac 16?


I like the their Sun Cat better.

The biggest problems with the ComPac 16 is that it's harder to ramp launch than
it should be, the cabin is absolutely tiny inside, and they are so slow they hit
the same wave three times.

But they are very salty looking little boats, inexpesnive to own, and I know
some people who have done a good bit of serious cruising in them. They don't
have the reserve bouyancy to carry enough stores for passagemaking, but for
coastal cruising they are very capable. Plus they are lots of fun for daysailing
(as long as the other boats dont' cruelly sail circles around you laughing).

I like Tadpole's pick, the Bolger Micro. Unorthodox but very practical &
seaworthy.
http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/

How small does a Pocket Cruiser have to be? If I weren't so humble I'd submit
that our Hunter 19 is one of the best.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...83124161YlrYLT

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

C'mon Doug!

A bolger micro is not a "sea worthy" craft. It is fine for pottering
about on fine days or on ishore waters. In my opinion it would be lethal
in a gale in unprotected water

Well, your opinion (in this case) goes against established fact, since they handle
rough weather as nicely as anything twice their displacement. Some of them have made
short passages.


.... having a very low angle of vanishing
stability.

I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that anything else in
their size range.


If you want a salty boat look for something along the lines
of a Cornish crabber or Tamarisk (if you can find/build the latter you
will have a gem).

Don't know what a Tamarisk is, but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward. The Micro is not "salty looking" in fact it's quite
unconventional. But it is very practical and sails a lot better than one might think,
certainly better than a big yacht scaled down to the same size.

I rather like the Cornish Crabber and if we'd seen them before getting the Hunter 19
we might have had one of those instead, but I doubt we'd have been as happy with it.
They are indeed salty looking and they are fairly practical to trailer, but woefully
slow and not at all as roomy or comfy as our little boat.

Come to think of it, we've sailed the Hunter 19 thru weather that had 35 foot crab
crushers huddling at the dock. I guess there's more to it than meets the eye (although
I'm not making any claims about it's LPOS).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


C'mon Doug!

A bolger micro is not a "sea worthy" craft. It is fine for pottering
about on fine days or on ishore waters. In my opinion it would be lethal
in a gale in unprotected water


Well, your opinion (in this case) goes against established fact, since they handle
rough weather as nicely as anything twice their displacement. Some of them have made
short passages.


Even Phil Bolger wrote this in his fiction story about his boat:

" If they had passed the strait they would almost certainly have lost
the boat. The Libeccio, a southwest dry gale, blew up out of a clear sky
as they neared Cap Corse, and even under the lee of Corsica they got the
scare of their lives and just made it into Bastia with deep-reefed
mainsail and motor wide open. They came close to being blown over to the
Italian coast. If they'd been on the west coast of Corsica, they would
have piled up on the lee shore.that a gale would risk "

You still want to maintain this is seaworthy!

What depresses me is that you should be able to look at the design and
_know_ it is NOT seaworthy.

Cheers MC





.... having a very low angle of vanishing
stability.


I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that anything else in
their size range.



If you want a salty boat look for something along the lines
of a Cornish crabber or Tamarisk (if you can find/build the latter you
will have a gem).

Don't know what a Tamarisk is, but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

And what is the LPOS of the MICRO Doug?

?The Micro is not "salty looking" in fact it's quite
unconventional.


But it is very practical and sails a lot better than one might think,
certainly better than a big yacht scaled down to the same size.

I don't think it will sail any better that I think that's for sure.

I rather like the Cornish Crabber and if we'd seen them before getting the Hunter 19
we might have had one of those instead, but I doubt we'd have been as happy with it.
They are indeed salty looking and they are fairly practical to trailer, but woefully
slow and not at all as roomy or comfy as our little boat.


Thisd is true but the Crabber is a good seaboat.


Come to think of it, we've sailed the Hunter 19 thru weather that had 35 foot crab
crushers huddling at the dock.

There are even bigger boats that huddle at docks. When the crabber hull
was designed it was based squarely on working boats that went out in
gales. I have sailed a very similar design through a severe gale in the
english channel.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

OK I'll take that bet. How does $10,000 sound?

Cheers MC


I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that anything else in
their size range.

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

Even Phil Bolger wrote this in his fiction story about his boat:

" If they had passed the strait they would almost certainly have lost
the boat. The Libeccio, a southwest dry gale, blew up out of a clear sky
as they neared Cap Corse

1- this is fiction

2- he is talking about 50 knot gale and confused seas, not a hopeful place for a 15' boat
with rocky cliffs under the lee.


What depresses me is that you should be able to look at the design and
_know_ it is NOT seaworthy.

One cannot judge a book by its cover. It's sad to see that *you* think *you* can.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:
I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that anything else in
their size range.



The navigator© wrote:
OK I'll take that bet. How does $10,000 sound?



Beat 180 degrees LPOS. The Bolger Micro has sealed wooden box masts and a 50%
ballast/disp ratio.

Awaiting your check, do you have any stock market advice to go with it? I understand
that it's possible to make over 40% returns these days....

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:


The navigator© wrote:


Even Phil Bolger wrote this in his fiction story about his boat:

" If they had passed the strait they would almost certainly have lost
the boat. The Libeccio, a southwest dry gale, blew up out of a clear sky
as they neared Cap Corse


1- this is fiction


Yes very romantic but based on his knowlege of his design.

2- he is talking about 50 knot gale and confused seas, not a hopeful place for a 15' boat
with rocky cliffs under the lee.

A gale is not 50 knots. You should know that. The Libecco is just a gale.

What depresses me is that you should be able to look at the design and
_know_ it is NOT seaworthy.

One cannot judge a book by its cover. It's sad to see that *you* think *you* can.


What a petulant response. Do you deny that some people know about boat
design and can make decisions by inspection about their suitability for
sea? They are called "yacht inspectors" here Doug, and I can tell you
that not one of those that I know would rate that vessel as anything
other than manifestly unsafe for offshore passages -and that is why I
say it is not seaworthy. It's ballast ratio is only 25% and it's form
stability is lost at 45 degrees. If that's not bad enough, I suggest she
is not weatherly either when the wind picks over a stiff breeze up with
a 3'sea.

It's really simple. This was never intended to be a seaworthy boat. It's
for shallow water and calm days. That will indeed fit the needs of 95%
of prospective Micro customers. What is incorrect is to over sell the
qualities to the point that some poor misled person thinks they can go
offshore safely in it.

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:09:02 GMT, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:48:42 GMT, "The Carrolls" wrote:

Any thoughts on the subject? Trailerable would be a plus but not necessarily
needed. Must be able to weekend and stand at least moderate weather. Length
up to discussion.


Given your rather un-defined parameters, I'd say probably a Seaward Fox with the
sloop rig. It's trailerable, yet carries a 450 pound lead keel. It has a lot of
room for an under 20 foot sailboat, and it can handle pretty dramatic conditions
without making them more dramatic. It's not the fastest boat, but it sails quite
well in a wide range of conditions, and for entry level, it provides a very
stable, easy to manage experience. They are well made, forgiving little boats.

If you want to go offshore look at the Pacific Seacraft Flicka. Many have
circumnavigated. I would call them barely trailerable with a full size tow
vehicle. Would love one myself but can't justify the money for the coastal
Chesapeake Bay sailing that I do.

JJ

BB

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Bzzt. You loose! It's 25% ballast ratio for a start and mast buoyancy
does not (and cannot) contribute to LPOS measurements ('cos it can and
will be dismasted!!!). Please send cheque care of Western Union Auckland
Branch.

Cheers MC





DSK wrote:

DSK wrote:
I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that anything else in
their size range.



The navigator© wrote:
OK I'll take that bet. How does $10,000 sound?



Beat 180 degrees LPOS. The Bolger Micro has sealed wooden box masts and a 50%
ballast/disp ratio.

Awaiting your check, do you have any stock market advice to go with it? I understand
that it's possible to make over 40% returns these days....

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

If you want a salty boat look for something along the lines
of a Cornish crabber or Tamarisk (if you can find/build the latter you
will have a gem).


Don't know what a Tamarisk is

Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/

but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her. I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well. No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:


...Do you deny that some people know about boat
design and can make decisions by inspection about their suitability for
sea?

No I don't deny any such thing. However I am quite certain that you cannot.



say it is not seaworthy. It's ballast ratio is only 25%

Where did you get this figure?

and it's form
stability is lost at 45 degrees.

Where did you get this figure?

If that's not bad enough, I suggest she
is not weatherly either when the wind picks over a stiff breeze up with
a 3'sea.


I suggest you are either 1- talking about something with no knowledge and/or 2- talking about a
different boat.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:


Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/


Nice looking boat. Of course it's probably 3X the displacement of the Micro, so what a
fair comparison.


but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her.

Actually, I have not only sailed both a Crabber and a Shrimper, I've sailed the
Shrimper with the designer. A very pleasant afternoon.

I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well.

Perhaps the designer knows more than you, he says they start having a "bit of bother"
when the wind gets over 40.


No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.

The hull shape is actually less important than the rig & foils, and the overall
aerodynamic drag. Double head gaff sloops look very salty indeed but have a lot of
drag which is hard for their inefficient rigs to overcome when the wind blows hard.

The navigator© wrote:

Bzzt. You loose! It's 25% ballast ratio for a start

Where did you get this figure?

and mast buoyancy
does not (and cannot) contribute to LPOS measurements ('cos it can and
will be dismasted!!!).

On your say so? I think not, the masts are quite strong and secured to the boat at
least as well as a conventional stayed rig.

If you want another figure of merit, check the Capsize Screen for both boats. You'll
find that the Micro is lower.

I assume this is just a feeble attempt to welsh on your bet.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/



Nice looking boat. Of course it's probably 3X the displacement of the Micro, so what a
fair comparison.


but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish

Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her.


Actually, I have not only sailed both a Crabber and a Shrimper, I've sailed the
Shrimper with the designer. A very pleasant afternoon.


I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well.


Perhaps the designer knows more than you, he says they start having a "bit of bother"
when the wind gets over 40.


All boats have a "bit of bother" when the wind gets over 40. That's a
full gale. You really are such a twit.


No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.


The hull shape is actually less important than the rig & foils, and the overall
aerodynamic drag. Double head gaff sloops look very salty indeed but have a lot of
drag which is hard for their inefficient rigs to overcome when the wind blows hard.

All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert. It's not the windspeed that's the problem but the sea and
the hull form. Have you ever sailed in a sea at all? "Foils"? Ah such
adept use of terminology. You don't fool me mister.


Bzzt. You loose! It's 25% ballast ratio for a start


Where did you get this figure?


From the web site describing the design and its specifications.

and mast buoyancy
does not (and cannot) contribute to LPOS measurements ('cos it can and
will be dismasted!!!).


On your say so? I think not,

Bwhhahahaha. You don't know much about yacht design do you. Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


the masts are quite strong and secured to the boat at
least as well as a conventional stayed rig.

Good lord!

If you want another figure of merit, check the Capsize Screen for both boats. You'll
find that the Micro is lower.

Capsize screen. Bwhahhahahahaha.

I assume this is just a feeble attempt to welsh on your bet.

Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


...Do you deny that some people know about boat
design and can make decisions by inspection about their suitability for
sea?


No I don't deny any such thing. However I am quite certain that you cannot.



say it is not seaworthy. It's ballast ratio is only 25%


Where did you get this figure?


420 lbs ballast 1650 lbs diplacement. Yes, that's 25% to me! Perhaas you
should invest in a calculator or some math lessons?

and it's form
stability is lost at 45 degrees.


Where did you get this figure?

Tell me what you think it should be? Have you even looked at it's
crossection? Have you even seen GZ curve for a vessel with slab vertical
sides? No I didn't think so, but they are in all good Naval Architecture
texts.

If that's not bad enough, I suggest she
is not weatherly either when the wind picks over a stiff breeze up with
a 3'sea.



I suggest you are either 1- talking about something with no knowledge and/or 2- talking about a
different boat.

Wrong on both counts.

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

That too.

The navigator© wrote:

He asked for the best not the simplest.

Cheers MC

FLying Tadpole wrote:


Bolger Micro.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.

For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.



.... You don't fool me mister.

Why would I try to fool a fool?

... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.

So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:

Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?

You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Shall we contact the designer to show how stupid you are? 180 degree LPS?

Bwhahahahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.




.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?


... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:


Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.


So now the hull form become important? Bwhahahhahahaha.


.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?

Wow! that's really clever Doug.



... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


And what is your knowlege of stability based on Doug? Obviously not
reading (or formal education either)! Is it divine inspiration or just
your endless BS?


The navigator© wrote:


Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.


When you lose a bet you are supposed to pay Doug. Since you do not even
have a clue about the limits of stability for that design (or even what
it is) why not just pay up like a gentleman and admit you were wrong (as
usual.) If you can't accept that you have no idea what you are talking
about, I'm perfectly happy to get 2 world famous naval architects and
expert witnesses in design legal cases to confirm that the Bolger Micro
does not have a higher limit of stability than any other craft -if you
will honor your bet.


Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Let's not forget the unstayed masts that are unbreakable!

Cheers MC

wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:25:04 +1300, The_navigator©
wrote:


Shall we contact the designer to show how stupid you are? 180 degree LPS?



Doug must have observed it - that makes it a FACT!

BB



Bwhahahahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:


The navigator© wrote:



All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.





.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?



... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:



Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

When you lose a bet you are supposed to pay Doug.

So, you understand this? Why did you make a bet with no intention of paying?


Since you do not even
have a clue about the limits of stability for that design

Let's review.

1- you claim a stability limit of 45 degrees based on ???

2- you claim the boat would be dismasted based on ???

3- You dismiss the fact that the Micros capsize screen is lower (ie better) than your pick

4- the boat you picked is substantially larger anyway

5- about the only thing you can say to back up your claims are "bwahahaha" and "when are you
going to pay up."

I didn't think there was a lower form of life than the Crapton, but maybe you are determined to
seek that level?

... Bolger Micro
does not have a higher limit of stability than any other craft...

That is not what I claimed, and was not the bet.

Judging by your reading skills, this vast knowledge of yacht design based on your extensive
reading, hasn't proven to be worth very much.

Now shall I send a marshall to claim title to the boat you claim you own?

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:


That is not what I claimed, and was not the bet.


Let me repost your bet:

"I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that
anything else in their size range."

The bolger micro does not have an LPOS of 180 degrees so you loose! I
can draw you a vessel right now that has an LPS of 180 and the same
length so YOU LOOSE. FYI a box section CANNOT have an LPS of 180
degrees. It's a common first year naval architecture problem (since lots
of RORO's have near perfect box sections). Pay up!!!!!!!!!

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:


Let me repost your bet:

"I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that
anything else in their size range."

So far you have not listed any boat in that size range.



The bolger micro does not have an LPOS of 180 degrees so you loose!

Wrong.

I
can draw you a vessel right now that has an LPS of 180 and the same
length so YOU LOOSE.

But that is not an existing vessel, so no... I don't lose. Pay up.


FYI a box section CANNOT have an LPS of 180
degrees.

Sure it can. If it has a ballast keel below and bouyant spars above, then it
will darn sure like to sit right side up better than upside down.

It's a common first year naval architecture problem (since lots
of RORO's have near perfect box sections).

Uh huh. And how many ROROs have ballast keels and bouyant masts?

I am still waiting your explanation of why, in this one particular case, the
capsize screen has no bearing on LPOS. In all other cases, it is an
excellent way of determining the relative LPOS of similar vessels.


Pay up!!!!!!!!!

Is it a quaint NZ custom that the winner pays a bet? Sorry, it doesn't work
that way over here.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

What part of the word ANYTHING do you not understand Doug? I told you
that I can draw you a vessel with an LPS of 180 degrees which is much
more than the Micro. Since that drawing will describe a vessel it must
be included in the description ANYTHING. Now PAY UP or be known as a
liar and cheat! I could also give you a long list of pocket cruisers
that have been built with very high LPS (and more than any Micro) but
that won't be needed since you've lost already.

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Let me repost your bet:

"I bet anything you care to name that they have a higher LPOS that
anything else in their size range."


So far you have not listed any boat in that size range.



The bolger micro does not have an LPOS of 180 degrees so you loose!


Wrong.


I
can draw you a vessel right now that has an LPS of 180 and the same
length so YOU LOOSE.


But that is not an existing vessel, so no... I don't lose. Pay up.



FYI a box section CANNOT have an LPS of 180
degrees.


Sure it can. If it has a ballast keel below and bouyant spars above, then it
will darn sure like to sit right side up better than upside down.


It's a common first year naval architecture problem (since lots
of RORO's have near perfect box sections).


Uh huh. And how many ROROs have ballast keels and bouyant masts?

I am still waiting your explanation of why, in this one particular case, the
capsize screen has no bearing on LPOS. In all other cases, it is an
excellent way of determining the relative LPOS of similar vessels.



Pay up!!!!!!!!!


Is it a quaint NZ custom that the winner pays a bet? Sorry, it doesn't work
that way over here.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

I told you
that I can draw you a vessel with an LPS of 180 degrees

Crayons or Etch A Sketch?

Bwahahahaha! You couldn't draw a bath!

RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Wanna bet? How much?

Cheers MC

Bobsprit wrote:

I told you
that I can draw you a vessel with an LPS of 180 degrees

Crayons or Etch A Sketch?

Bwahahahaha! You couldn't draw a bath!

RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Wanna bet? How much?

Sorry I'm tapped out from buying fenders for my deck.

RB

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

What part of the word ANYTHING do you not understand Doug?

I understand that, as usual, you are bluffing and blustering. You threaten to
write to Phil Bolger to get his figures, but do not. You claim figures but cannot
back them up. You insist that you are right against all evidence to the contrary.
You change the terms.

It is rather sad, when this discussion could have been instructive.

I suppose that NZ$10,000 isn't worth the effort to collect anyway.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

I've already estimated the LPS for the micro. It's a trivial problem
from the published displacement and ballast and cross section. If I post
an email to Bolger and friends and they confirm the veracity of my
estimate (which is 180 degrees) will you pay up?

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


What part of the word ANYTHING do you not understand Doug?


I understand that, as usual, you are bluffing and blustering. You threaten to
write to Phil Bolger to get his figures, but do not. You claim figures but cannot
back them up. You insist that you are right against all evidence to the contrary.
You change the terms.

It is rather sad, when this discussion could have been instructive.

I suppose that NZ$10,000 isn't worth the effort to collect anyway.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

I've already estimated the LPS for the micro. It's a trivial problem
from the published displacement and ballast and cross section.

No, you went on with a lot of blather and bwahaha. AFAIK you didn't make any sort of
estimate other than to hurl a lot of insults and yabble about RORO ships.

BTW there are two ballast configurations for the Micro. One is to let the deadwood void
fill with water, which IIRC is the figure you named. The other is to fill the same void
with cement which would result in the figure I named. So, perhaps you should revise
your "estimated LPOS" to exclude things like the lowest possible figure and assumptions
of dismasting.


If I post
an email to Bolger and friends and they confirm the veracity of my
estimate (which is 180 degrees) will you pay up?

No, that was not the terms of the bet. You have to demonstrate that at least one
existing crauising sailboat in the same size range (15' LOA and/or 850kg DISP) has a
higher LPOS.

HINT: Finding one with a lower capsize screen would be one way to start.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King