Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

If you want a salty boat look for something along the lines
of a Cornish crabber or Tamarisk (if you can find/build the latter you
will have a gem).


Don't know what a Tamarisk is

Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/

but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her. I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well. No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:


...Do you deny that some people know about boat
design and can make decisions by inspection about their suitability for
sea?

No I don't deny any such thing. However I am quite certain that you cannot.



say it is not seaworthy. It's ballast ratio is only 25%

Where did you get this figure?

and it's form
stability is lost at 45 degrees.

Where did you get this figure?

If that's not bad enough, I suggest she
is not weatherly either when the wind picks over a stiff breeze up with
a 3'sea.


I suggest you are either 1- talking about something with no knowledge and/or 2- talking about a
different boat.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:


Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/


Nice looking boat. Of course it's probably 3X the displacement of the Micro, so what a
fair comparison.


but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish
Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her.

Actually, I have not only sailed both a Crabber and a Shrimper, I've sailed the
Shrimper with the designer. A very pleasant afternoon.

I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well.

Perhaps the designer knows more than you, he says they start having a "bit of bother"
when the wind gets over 40.


No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.

The hull shape is actually less important than the rig & foils, and the overall
aerodynamic drag. Double head gaff sloops look very salty indeed but have a lot of
drag which is hard for their inefficient rigs to overcome when the wind blows hard.

The navigator© wrote:

Bzzt. You loose! It's 25% ballast ratio for a start

Where did you get this figure?

and mast buoyancy
does not (and cannot) contribute to LPOS measurements ('cos it can and
will be dismasted!!!).

On your say so? I think not, the masts are quite strong and secured to the boat at
least as well as a conventional stayed rig.

If you want another figure of merit, check the Capsize Screen for both boats. You'll
find that the Micro is lower.

I assume this is just a feeble attempt to welsh on your bet.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Here's a Tamarsik:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F22517/



Nice looking boat. Of course it's probably 3X the displacement of the Micro, so what a
fair comparison.


but the Micro has a higher LPOS than the Cornish

Crabber and will make ground to weather in conditions that will have the Crabber
scudding off to leeward.

That's a really ignorant thing to say. You've obviously never sailed a
crabber or one like her.


Actually, I have not only sailed both a Crabber and a Shrimper, I've sailed the
Shrimper with the designer. A very pleasant afternoon.


I have and they do work to wind in a gale quite
well.


Perhaps the designer knows more than you, he says they start having a "bit of bother"
when the wind gets over 40.


All boats have a "bit of bother" when the wind gets over 40. That's a
full gale. You really are such a twit.


No bolger box design will go to wind in a gale as well as a
crabber -the hull shape won't permit it.


The hull shape is actually less important than the rig & foils, and the overall
aerodynamic drag. Double head gaff sloops look very salty indeed but have a lot of
drag which is hard for their inefficient rigs to overcome when the wind blows hard.

All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert. It's not the windspeed that's the problem but the sea and
the hull form. Have you ever sailed in a sea at all? "Foils"? Ah such
adept use of terminology. You don't fool me mister.


Bzzt. You loose! It's 25% ballast ratio for a start


Where did you get this figure?


From the web site describing the design and its specifications.

and mast buoyancy
does not (and cannot) contribute to LPOS measurements ('cos it can and
will be dismasted!!!).


On your say so? I think not,

Bwhhahahaha. You don't know much about yacht design do you. Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


the masts are quite strong and secured to the boat at
least as well as a conventional stayed rig.

Good lord!

If you want another figure of merit, check the Capsize Screen for both boats. You'll
find that the Micro is lower.

Capsize screen. Bwhahhahahahaha.

I assume this is just a feeble attempt to welsh on your bet.

Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


...Do you deny that some people know about boat
design and can make decisions by inspection about their suitability for
sea?


No I don't deny any such thing. However I am quite certain that you cannot.



say it is not seaworthy. It's ballast ratio is only 25%


Where did you get this figure?


420 lbs ballast 1650 lbs diplacement. Yes, that's 25% to me! Perhaas you
should invest in a calculator or some math lessons?

and it's form
stability is lost at 45 degrees.


Where did you get this figure?

Tell me what you think it should be? Have you even looked at it's
crossection? Have you even seen GZ curve for a vessel with slab vertical
sides? No I didn't think so, but they are in all good Naval Architecture
texts.

If that's not bad enough, I suggest she
is not weatherly either when the wind picks over a stiff breeze up with
a 3'sea.



I suggest you are either 1- talking about something with no knowledge and/or 2- talking about a
different boat.

Wrong on both counts.

Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

That too.

The navigator© wrote:

He asked for the best not the simplest.

Cheers MC

FLying Tadpole wrote:


Bolger Micro.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

The navigator© wrote:

All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.

For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.



.... You don't fool me mister.

Why would I try to fool a fool?

... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.

So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:

Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?

You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Shall we contact the designer to show how stupid you are? 180 degree LPS?

Bwhahahahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.




.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?


... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:


Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.


So now the hull form become important? Bwhahahhahahaha.


.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?

Wow! that's really clever Doug.



... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


And what is your knowlege of stability based on Doug? Obviously not
reading (or formal education either)! Is it divine inspiration or just
your endless BS?


The navigator© wrote:


Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.


When you lose a bet you are supposed to pay Doug. Since you do not even
have a clue about the limits of stability for that design (or even what
it is) why not just pay up like a gentleman and admit you were wrong (as
usual.) If you can't accept that you have no idea what you are talking
about, I'm perfectly happy to get 2 world famous naval architects and
expert witnesses in design legal cases to confirm that the Bolger Micro
does not have a higher limit of stability than any other craft -if you
will honor your bet.


Cheers MC

Best entry level pocket cruiser
 

Let's not forget the unstayed masts that are unbreakable!

Cheers MC

wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:25:04 +1300, The_navigator©
wrote:


Shall we contact the designer to show how stupid you are? 180 degree LPS?



Doug must have observed it - that makes it a FACT!

BB



Bwhahahahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:


The navigator© wrote:



All other things being constant, lift and drag rise in proportion mister
sail expert.


For the airfoil, yes. The drag on everything rises exponentially with no commensurate
increase in lift. This is why, in high winds, boats are sometimes difficult to get through
stays tacking.





.... You don't fool me mister.


Why would I try to fool a fool?



... Try doing
some reading before you pass on your "advice" to others.


So your expertise is based on reading only? And not much of that, judging by your
statements.


The navigator© wrote:



Nah, I'm waiting for your cheque Doug -are you going to pay me?


You are the one who owes me, remember? It would be a shame if you had to sell your boat,
though. However the debt will stay on the ledger.

DSK